[Oceans]

I agree it’s in everyone’s best interest to help her make this choice on her own and that is why I firmly believe she and this family need the help of an unbiased councilor – and they are out there you just have to look.

I am sure there are girls who regret their choice (let’s face it; we all have had doubts at one time or another). I am sure there are girls that feel they were forced or had no other options and yes, we can read their stories on the Internet.

What bothers me is the silent group of girls we don’t hear from. The ones that don’t have access to the Internet because they cant afford $40 a month for such a luxury never mind a computer. The girls who are worried about where she and her baby will sleep next month because they bought baby food instead of paying the rent. The girls who are in jeopardy of loosing yet another job because the baby is sick, daycare can’t take them and no else is around to help. I loose more sleep over the girls we don’t hear from than anyone else.

Regardless of her choice, she will be a member of her family the rest of her life, for better or worse and she will hopefully make her choice within that framework. Her chances of success increase greatly by including her parents in any decision she makes. My recent experience has been that outside influences (working against a family) only tend to alienate, frustrate, and lead to more guilt than is necessary. If a person wants to help, work WITH a family - not independant of them.

When faced with the privilege and responsibility of helping a girl make a choice that SHE has to own and live with the rest of her life, my thoughts are that we should all proceed with caution. Answer her questions with facts and leave our biases in our warm and comfy homes.

My apologies if I offend anyone as that’s not my intent. See paragraph #3 above. I am about an inch and a half away from becoming an activist on behalf of these girls and until we (as a society) have a better alternative than our current government programs, I am concerned that many times, parenting is a choice made in the absence of too little information.

[Mommy24]

Originally Posted by Oceans

, I am concerned that many times, parenting is a choice made in the absence of too little information.

I am concerned that adoption is a choice made in the absence of too little informations as well.

[thanksgivingmom]

Originally Posted by Mommy24

I am concerned that adoption is a choice made in the absence of too little informations as well.

COMPLETELY agree Michelle.

We always say: It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. With the support of family and friends she can do this if that's what she chooses.

I'm not going to encourage this young girl to join our club if she doesn't want to and if she doesn't have to.

I do understand the realities of her situation as a very young Mother, but if she's able to get all the information available to her, and to make an educated well-informed decision at that point, I would feel a lot more comfortable with her decision, no matter what the outcome.

[Oceans]

Originally Posted by thanksgivingmom

.....make an educated well-informed decision at that point, I would feel a lot more comfortable with her decision, no matter what the outcome.

Well said!! And Michelle, I believe the same of adoption. I am learning that just because open adoption can look REALLY good on paper, it has it's own set of trials and hardships. I am of the era of closed adpotion complete with 5 deadlocks placed on the door the moment you walked out of the room. I always thought that was the hardest thing ever but now, I wonder if open adoption isn't harder. It certainly comes with it's own set of responsibilities and personal losses.

Almost on a different topic.... I am trying to enlighten myself for the benefit of my niece and my own personal journey. I struggle with the concept of adoption being a "permanent solution to a temporary problem".

What's the temporary problem we are referring to? Also what does DD or DH stand for?

[Mommy24]

Oceans, I can answer the "temporary" problem question for myself, in my own situtation.

I placed my First son at the age of 19. My reasons for placing were temporary reasons, lack of money, lack of a spouse, lack of support. In less than 2 years, I had a husband, tons of support, and we were financially ok. I went on to parent my second child when my first son was only 2 years old. SO, in my case, had someone, anyone, told me that there were resources out there to help me, that I could be a single mom at 19 and do it, chances are I wouldn't have placed. There are other things that likely would have kept me from placing as well, but I was told that I was doing what was best for my child, that he deserved a good life with people who could provide for him and love him. I must say, I am sure his parents love him, but I love him today just as I did then, I could have provided him a good life, as I have 4 parented children now who would tell you that, what would have been best for him would have been his First mom having been COMPLETELY informed of her rights and resources, but I wasn't.


Dh= dear husband
dd=dear daughter
ds=dear son

[Mommy24]

FWIW, I am not anti-adoption. I think it is a wonderful option for women faced with a crisis pregnancy who have been completely informed of the resources available to single parents, given unbiased counseling, informed how hard both options are, parenting is no easier and no harder than adoption IMHO. Adoption is the answer for some women, it just wasn't the right option for me. Some may say "At the time, you did what you thought was best for him" and that may appear to be true, but if I had had more counseling, more support, I didn't have to place, I was made to believe I couldn't do it. I could have *sigh*

[Oceans]

Originally Posted by Mommy24

"At the time, you did what you thought was best for him"

For the record, I get this alot and it irritates me. For a number of reasons which may or may not be rational

I appreciate your answer and see your point. I still have financial concerns for the very young girls (15, 16, 17) and worry that their finances become more of a permanent problem if they don't have the support of a strong family. If I had my way, there would be a solution for those girls to parent AND get an education in a timely, safe, supportive environment (if that's what they want).

Expensive yes, but so is the loss of ANY young girl who is trying to make it out their on her own (assuming she doesn't beat the odds which is rare without family support - but not unique).

Maybe off topic since it sounds like this girls family is supportive. And I wish her the best of luck...

[Rondidondi]

For the past week I've only been able to "mouse" around. My computer has decided not to recognize a keyboard, so I haven't been able to comment. SO, now that I'm at a computer that actually works I can say all that i've been wanting to. Sorry-it'll be long.
Oceans-I appreciate your advice. I'd like to just clarify more on how I provided April with info.
I gave her info about adoption AND parenting. The info was both Pro and Con for both. I did not try to sway her in any decision, because that was not my postion. I was asked to tell my story. My experience with being a teen mother and my experience with adoption.
Yes-I gave her info that the adoption agency wouldn't. For her decision to be an educated and ethical one, she needs to know all sides.
M, the adoption councelor and I have actually grown a friendship and I love her to death. However, her job is adoption and she really doesn't focus on anything else when you are in her office. I actually donate my baby items that my son grows out of to her.

She is so fragile and easily manipulated right now

HHMMM-wonder why the agency only focuses on one side of adoption.
I gave her information that the agency wouldn't tell her. Such as, open adoption agreements NOT being legally enforced, how the pain does not go away just because the agency provides a support group, etc. They agency is/was having her talk to mothers that relinguished and are in open adoption arrangements that are working well. Tell me, why isn't she talking to anyone that had the door slammed in their face once they signed TPR? I don't like how the agency sugar coats adoption, to be ethical all sides need to be focused on.
April was thinking of parenting. So, they agency should help April educated herself on how she could parent as well. But they won't! I know this- I was 32 years old and they didn't with me!
I find it very important for April to also educate herself on parenting. As she was deciding between them both.
I told her the sacrifices she would be making if she decided she would parent. I told her how hard it would be. I also told her that her dreams were not impossible and with hard work and support, she could accomplish them. Sure, college may take 6yrs instead of 4, but if she was willing to accept that then GREAT! I gave her local resources that are available for her. I STRESSED she should have a plan to finish school before fully choosing parenting.
April's parents were fully aware of her asking me to talk with her. I did give her all the info before speaking with her though. This info was shared with her father. Both were very appreciative and said it was very educational for them.

I would disagree that the parents have "no say" in the matter. They may not be able to sign the TPR, but they can sign an arrest warrant charging the bfather with statuatory rape. They can turn their daughter over to Juvenile Court as a "minor person in need of supervision". They can sign an emancipation decree, freeing themselves from responsibility for their daughter's medical bills, or any bills the baby might accrue. What if the baby has a medical emergency at birth - needs surgery for cleft palate, etc.? Of course a good counselor can give the b-mother information on all the government programs and handouts, but the government doesn't hold her hand when she goes into labor?
As a mother who has had the experience of a pregnant teenager, I would highly resent anyone telling me "I had no say" -- unless that person were prepared to financially, physically, and legally take my place as a parent/grandparent.

MammS - Sorry, but a parent would need to except that. It sucks I know and would be truly hard, but they have NO SAY. I guess they could do all that you mentioned, but HOW SAD, to do that to a child in need of support and love.
Yes, my parents ended up paying for the birth of my son. My father had a long battle with his insurance company as well. I appreciate this a great deal.
And well, the state IS pressing charges against the father as he is 16. It was an agreeable act, however, Chad will be charged because he is older. I guess it'll just be a misdemeanor, but I still find it some what wrong. Puts more stress on a soon to be father as well.

FWIW, I am not anti-adoption. I think it is a wonderful option for women faced with a crisis pregnancy who have been completely informed of the resources available to single parents, given unbiased counseling, informed how hard both options are, parenting is no easier and no harder than adoption IMHO

Mommy24- WELL SAID! AGREE 100%

Update on April and Chad
Chad is coming to terms with the pregnancy.
And April's final decision...


She will be parenting. April is expecting a daughter. Her parents are suppporting her and she has my support as well. I still have some baby items at home that will be passed on to her. I will continue tohelp her, her parents, and Chad find the resources/help that they may need. I'm not going to lie-I am OVER JOYED she has choosen to parent. April and Chad will make great parents, with support and love from all around. I did remind her to re-eval everything again maybe one more time before her due date. (She's 5 1/2 months along)

Thanks EVERYONE for their input and assistance!

[lonni]

Great news. This must be the April I have been reading about in blogland.

[Oceans]

Rondidondi – It sounds like she has a lot of support and as I said before, is very lucky to have you.

As I said before and I can only relate from my own past & recent experience, I interviewed many councilors and yes, most were more focused on the baby (and therefore adoption) than they were on my niece. I wanted someone who cared more about my niece than the event at hand. Some of the questions I asked were:

“How are you paid?” I was looking for salary – no bonus – no commissions.
“How do you spend your time” – For her, 80% of time is options counseling and helping girls navigate the government services available
“How many of your girls choose adoption” No firm numbers but MOST of her girls choose to parent and she helps them prepare by referring programs and if things go wrong after birth (evictions, parents kick them out, stress, ect.) she is there for them as well.

I spent a lot of time interviewing and found one that I truly believe was unbiased – and yes, she was going to say some things that made me bite my fingers!! I bring this up because I don’t feel that all a-councilors get a fair shake on these forums. I will admit, I met one TERRIBLE a-councilor (talk of foster care threats and placements at McDonald’s) But, in the end, that’s the beauty of having a supportive adult involved. We have no problem recognizing the bad ones and telling them not to call back… (I believe I also suggested a change in her career path as well).

As far as parents having no say, they shouldn’t and don’t – BUT – this has a HUGE impact on their life. They too can end up parenting (albeit in a more passive way) and they don’t have the right to sever ties with a child who is still a minor. There are financial considerations and at the end of the day, the chances of a good outcome are severely diminished without their support regardless of the choice. Parents struggle a great deal and deserve to be recognized, supported and above all, HEARD in this very complicated equation. My initial caution was to be very careful about interference (which you aren’t doing and I applaud).

My niece has chosen adoption and my heart is sick. If she chose parenting my heart would hurt just as much. Nothing is easy and there are losses in either choice. Yes, parents hurt too….

She has a good friend in you. Given my sway towards adoption, I don’t know if this will be helpful in her re-eval (which again, KUDO’s to you for suggesting). My Niece and I did some of the following:

1 – Send her to this website to read stories of teens parenting today: Life in the Fast Lane--Teen Stories Then we discussed her fears and concerns and out-right denial (“I would never feel that way”)

2 – Printed this and had her read it: What You Should Know If You're Considering Adoption For Your Baby Again, we discussed her fears and concerns. Since I was a b-mom, I have some insights both good & bad.
3 - Find out how quickly she could finish HS
4 - Figure out the amount of $$ she would qualify for in Student Loans (No way was she NOT going to college – Parents have some say so!! hehehe) FAFSA calculators work great - don’t forget to look for College grants made available by your state). Here’s a FAFSA Calc: FAFSA4caster - U.S. Department of Education
5 - Then we looked at how much $$ she would get from social services (using her grant money as income and working 10-20hrs a week). She qualified for WIC, food stamps, daycare subsidies, housing vouchers (which I hear take a lifetime to get so we need to get her on a list as soon as she is able) – no TANF due to her grant $$. Father’s contribution was $130-$250/month.
6 - With our income numbers fixed, we worked out a budget (diapers, formula, clothes - for her & baby, daycare etc.)

This gave her an indication of the financial struggles and lifestyle she would be living into for the next 6-8 years.

We also discussed her obligations with regards to an open adoption plan. With OA she is also committing to her child for life. It is not to be taken lightly. If she chooses adoption it will become her job and responsibility to become the person that the baby will be proud to call birthmom. It is also her responsibility to maintain and foster a caring and loving relationship with the a-parents while also maintaining boundaries on both sides. And perhaps the most challenging of all, it is her responsibility to herself to commit to healing which may or may not be a lifelong process.

So I don’t know if any of this will be helpful but thanks for letting me go on so – It helps me anyway…

[taramayrn]

Thank you for the update - I will be praying for this young couple.

[Rondidondi]

Oceans- Again some very good information - Thank you

As far as parents having no say, they shouldn’t and don’t – BUT – this has a HUGE impact on their life. They too can end up parenting (albeit in a more passive way) and they don’t have the right to sever ties with a child who is still a minor. There are financial considerations and at the end of the day, the chances of a good outcome are severely diminished without their support regardless of the choice. Parents struggle a great deal and deserve to be recognized, supported and above all, HEARD in this very complicated equation. My initial caution was to be very careful about interference (which you aren’t doing and I applaud).

I do realize a grandchild coming too soon does have a GREAT impact. I stressed to April that she make sure SHE'S raising the child. As it is not her parents job to do so. I look at my son, if he were to become a father-OH MY WHAT WOULD I DO? - Well, support him on his decision and live each day as it comes, just as I do now. We raise our kids the best we know how and eventually they make their own decisions. Sometimes good, sometimes bad.

2 – Printed this and had her read it: What You Should Know If You're Considering Adoption For Your Baby Again, we discussed her fears and concerns. Since I was a b-mom, I have some insights both good & bad.

This is the pamphlet I already gave her. It is an awesome source.
The other sources you gave seem to be great. I will print them off and send them her way.
Thank you again for all your insight.

lonni-yeah, I do believe this is the April you've been hearing about. There were some very beautiful and heart touching letters, weren't there. I know I shed quite a few tears over them.

taramayrn-Prayers are always appreciated. Lord, knows these kids will need them. They have a ruff road ahead of them.

Just have to add that April and Chad are currently arguing. I guess April has chosen a name and Chad doesn't like it. I was talking with Andrew, (my son) about it. I mentioned how both need to realize that they need to work as a team, they now have a child to consider. It's hard, it took Andrew's father and i a few years to let go of our anger towards each other and just think of Andrew. Now, heck we can go out for pizza and even took a trip together as friends. I suggested counceling for both on parenting and getting along.