[tobeafamily]

One of my oldest and dearest friends got pregnant while using a diaphragm with cream, birth control pills and a condom. I had another friend get pregnant after having her tubes tied. No birth control method is 100% foolproof. Ryan's bparents concieved him while using both pills and a condom.

Just a question - how is it that you know God's plan so well? Maybe God's plan is for her to make an adoption plan for this child...hmmm.... we certainly have enough paparents on this board who have expressed that the children they either plan to or have adopted are as a result of God's plan too. So maybe He is giving her the strength and guidance not to parent, rather to place?

IMHO

Regina

[baby_shimmer3]

[Edited To Remove Agency/Facilitator/fee based services Recommendations or comments]

Please remember that comments about agencies or other fee based services made after 2/10/2004 MUST be made via Private Message.

[FL_GirlByProxy]

Elizabeth, what an awesome suggestion. I'm so glad to see this thread get back on track with help for Leigh. I just missed the open adoption era by mere years, I think. I'm so happy for all of you with open adoptions that are going as agreed. It's awesome!!

[ellemeth]

[Edited To Remove Agency/Facilitator/fee based services Recommendations or comments]

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[PalicT]

For those who think I'm harsh well I will not try to change your mind. And I never said I knew gods plan reread what I wrote if thats the only thing you got out of it. And I didn't say it was impossible to get pregnant I said I never heard of anyone getting pregnant while on birthcontrol and using condoms at the same time I never said it didn't happen ever. I never heard of it happening. And in a sense yes it is giving your baby away I have nothing against adoption But everyone has there own veiws just because mine aren't the same as yours dosen't make them wrong. When you ask people for advice thats what you get good or bad its there perspective. When you chose to hand your baby over to someone elses loving hands you give up the right of raising that child I think in a way open adoptions are selfish and yes I realize that may be harsh to say but saying here you raise my baby, love my baby, provide for my baby, wake up all hours of the night with my baby, do everything I can't do for my baby but let me be in there life for the fun things not the things parents deal with everyday there are a host of things that you go on raising children. I am raising three daughters and they give me a run for my money they are all mine and my husbands biological children. I know there are people out there that have no choice but to adopt and some people have no choice but putting their babies up for adoption my sister can not have children so she will adopt she however is opting for a closed adoption. And even those of you that have handed your babies to loving arms and are in a open adoption I can't help but feel like you still hurt a little everytime you see your baby and there calling someone else mommy. Or you get a picture of them at there first birthday and there smilling from ear to ear and there parents are holding them while they blow out the candles that you were wishing that were you holding your baby. I know the pain of giving birth and the joy of holding my daugthers after thay were born the heartache of almost losing my first born due to a premature birth. And really am not trying to change anyones mind about how they feel but everyone has a choice and it is up to them to make the right ones for them. But when you have a child your not making a choice for you alone your making a choice for your child as well so all I'm saying is make sure its the right one because its its not just your life. And I really am sorry if I hurt anyones feelings but this is just how I feel. And some people may feel that a closed adoption is selfish and in away it is and I'm sure there are some of you that have given your babies up for adoption and are in closed adoptions are wondering how the baby is doing and I'm sure it hurts everyday I can't imagine the pain and suffering your going through. I can't say which is the best solution for anyone I can just give my opion and that is what all anyone can do no one person is right.

[scarlet52698]

Palic, you are correct. We all have a right to our opinions. May I ask what side of the adoption triad you are?

[banjo]

Yes PalicT: what side of the triad are you on because if you are not a member of the triad i wish you would stop posting. AS a birthmother I only want to read posts from other bmothers, adoptees and aparents. That's because they are truly involved in adoption and I value their opinions - even if I disagree sometimes. Unfortunately i often hear what misinformed people not involved with adoption have to say on the matter and it's usually hurtful and ignorant. So i come here for support and to hear other opinions from people at the coal face as such I have and will continue to learn from these people. I also can't believe this thread has turned into a discussion over contraception!!!! JMHO banjo

[SchmennaLeigh]

I'd like to point out that I am a miracle of birth control AND condoms. It does happen. Apparently, I'm a determined little one round and round.

Palic, while it's great for your to share you opinion, getting defensive turns people off to your true hope: to educate others on your experience and encourage them to make an informed decision.

Leigh (nice name), best of luck in whatever you decide in the end.

[FL_GirlByProxy]

Originally Posted by PalicT

When you chose to hand your baby over to someone elses loving hands you give up the right of raising that child I think in a way open adoptions are selfish and yes I realize that may be harsh to say but saying here you raise my baby, love my baby, provide for my baby, wake up all hours of the night with my baby, do everything I can't do for my baby but let me be in there life for the fun things not the things parents deal with everyday there are a host of things that you go on raising children.

Palic, My Birthson's adoption is a closed adoption, I relinquished him 20 years ago. I am blessed to know him, his mom and dad and other members of his family now. That being said, I would have loved an open adoption, as I have worried myself sick for 20 years. So I am reacting to your comments from a certain perspective, as a birthmom in a closed adoption. I am so offended by your definition of open adoption. I would never word open adoption the way you have here. Yes, a birthmom in an open adoption is surrenduring her right to parent, to do all the tough things and enjoy all the great things, but it is a decision made out of love, and for the welfare of her child, IMO, before her own life is considered. And as far as being able to still see her birthchild, or know how her birthchild is through letters and pictures, that is a blessing that both the adoptive parents and the birthmom agree to. And yes, let this child's birthmom be in his/her life, so that the child knows about his/her origin, knows that his/her birthmom loves him/her, and has a connection throughout his/her life as to what he/she is all about, instead of waiting 18 years or many, many more for those answers. And yes, let this child's birthmom be in his/her life, so that the birthmom doesn't worry beyond belief for 18 years or many many more. It's a blessing all around, IMO. I really think your definition is short-sighted, with all due respect.

[Kara J]

Palic.... Is it your place to judge? Just because someone has sex when they are not married doesn't condemn them to hell... Do religious people not make mistakes?

Leigh.... please know that you are thought of and prayed for daily... I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide! May you feel loved and comforted when you visit here... there are many people here that are on your side and will be here for you when you need us... Love and ((((hugs)))).... Kara

[wanttobeparents]

When you chose to hand your baby over to someone else's loving hands you give up the right of raising that child I think in a way open adoptions are selfish and yes I realize that may be harsh to say but saying here you raise my baby, love my baby, provide for my baby, wake up all hours of the night with my baby, do everything I can't do for my baby but let me be in there life for the fun things not the things parents deal with everyday there are a host of things that you go on raising children.

PalicT, my son's birthparents have been there for lots more things than the fun stuff. His birthfather stayed with us for a week when both the kids were on a nebulizer, running fever, and my husband and I were both sick as well. I got to sleep more than 3 hours in a row for the first time in more than 6 weeks. He sat up in a chair for hours in the middle of the night holding a feverish Michael to comfort him and help him breathe better. He sang to him to comfort him while holding a nebulizer mask in front of his face. He bathed him in a cool tub to help bring his fever down and sat with me in the doctor's office while the doctor checked his oxygen level, ears, and breathing. Yup, "K" ended up catching the virus too, but stayed there long enough to help me get my strength back so that I could care for the rest of the sick ones. I wouldn't call any of that fun, just responsible and loving.

Even the "fun" things are painful to them. Birthdays, baptism, even trips to the zoo are painful reminders to them that they are not the ones raising him.

I can only hope that having them in his life can keep them from worrying about him. When we adopted Michael, we added more to our family than just a baby. We added two other families to ours: two more families to love our children, to care about them, and to look out for them. Two more families to add medical information that may be important as he grows up, to answer questions he may have, and to let him see who he looks like, acts like and sounds like.

Open adoption was the best thing for our family. Please read all you can about different types of adoption before thinking that birth parents in open adoption are only around for the fun times.

Peggy

[PalicT]

Think about what you ladies are saying. It hurts that bad and you feel the reaction this way for a reason. And I'm not judging anyone but just read what some of these bmoms are saying how bad it hurt to give there babies away and how much they suffer. And yes lots of people have sex so with everytime you have sex there is that possibility of pregnancy so you make your choices the minute you lay down it not just your resonsibility its also the mans. And yes accidents in cars but babies are never accidents they are blessings and thats just how I feel. I never told anyone what they should do and never will I can just give my points no one has to read them we all have choices. And as for where I stand we have three girls and are taking classes to adopt a children from fostercare that need a good home not just a temporary stay. So I'm not judging this girl I'm giving my thoughts and I am not trying to hurt her but my goodness not everyones opions are gonna be the same and take them or leave them shes the only one who can decide for herself whats right for her and her children like we all do.

[antifloyd]

Originally Posted by PalicT

And by not giving your child all the things in life he or she deserves well your love is all your child needs providing for one isn't so different than providing for two. My parents had and raised eight children and I am the youngest we may not have had money but we have love and we are all grown now and realize the sacrifices my parents went through and how hard they had it at times but no one said being a parent was easy there are things in your life you have to change and sometimes give up. I just think its not about the child but more about you.

I want to address this post you made a little earlier. When I was pregnant at 17, and made the decision to place my child, many people I know kept telling me how UNselfish I was being, what a great sacrifice I was making. I kept thinking, "NO, it's not just that! I'm only 17 and still in high school. I'm not ready to be a mom!"
I don't feel that there's anything wrong in admitting that! It's good for my daughter that I could recognize that, instead of keeping her and not being a very good parent. She became a wonderful young woman having been raised by her aparents. When I think about my life, esp. when I was younger, I can't imagine how things would have been if I had kept her.Things were bad enough just trying to keep myself!

[FL_GirlByProxy]

Originally Posted by PalicT

Think about what you ladies are saying. It hurts that bad and you feel the reaction this way for a reason. And I'm not judging anyone but just read what some of these bmoms are saying how bad it hurt to give there babies away and how much they suffer. And yes lots of people have sex so with everytime you have sex there is that possibility of pregnancy so you make your choices the minute you lay down it not just your resonsibility its also the mans. And yes accidents in cars but babies are never accidents they are blessings and thats just how I feel. I never told anyone what they should do and never will I can just give my points no one has to read them we all have choices. And as for where I stand we have three girls and are taking classes to adopt a children from fostercare that need a good home not just a temporary stay. So I'm not judging this girl I'm giving my thoughts and I am not trying to hurt her but my goodness not everyones opions are gonna be the same and take them or leave them shes the only one who can decide for herself whats right for her and her children like we all do.

Palic, it is my opinion that you are all over the map here with judgement. And when someone disagrees with you, you say you are not judging. On 2/3/05 on this thread you wrote:
"I just think its not about the child but more about you." That is a judgement. Criticising single mothers who are contemplating their adoption plans, telling them what you think their motives are (selfish, in your words) is a judgement. Please tell me, whose shoes here in the adoption triad have you walked in. Are you an adoptee, a birthmom or an adoptive parent? I don't think you have an active role as either of the 3 positions in the triad, and the only reason I am assuming that is when I read your posts they are JUDGEMENTAL and OFFENSIVE, IMO. And I do realize that I am judging your posts here, I feel the need to come to the defense of all my sisters in the adoption triad. Very rarely do I judge posts in a negative way, they've got to be really offensive to get to me, and in this you have succeeded. Please tell us which part of the adoption triad you hail from, adoptee, birthmom or adoptive parent, so that we may better understand your position here.

[tobeafamily]

I'm with LeAnn on this one - Palic, all I read are judgements, no advice, no empathy, no understanding, no experience. Just judgement.

For example:

"First of all good for you for raising one of your children but let me ask you this since you are so religous don't you believe god gave you this baby for a reason?"

Everything happens for a reason. What reason that is is always hidden from us. Beware anyone who portends to know God's path, for they speak falsely. No one can know.

"I mean I have never heard of anyone getting pregnant while using birth control and condoms." - reads: This isn't possible. Followed by: "And in this case it makes me think that one you may not have been as protective as you've said or this baby is a miracle."

Judging - really you wanted this baby. Since I have never heard of someone getting pg. while using birth control, it's really a secret desire or a miracle that it happens. Not medical fallability. A miracle. Well, Palic, now you've heard of several people who got pregnant while on BC. It's the 2-4% documented chance that the product will fail, not a miracle.

"And by not giving your child all the things in life he or she deserves well your love is all your child needs providing for one isn't so different than providing for two."

Except you understand nothing of Leighs' situation. How can you say it would be different? You're not her and don't live her life. Oh and BTW choosing not to parent doesn't mean you don't love.

"I just think its not about the child but more about you. We are taught about safe sex in school and most not all but most religous people don't believe in sex before marrage."

Not about the child, more about her. Yep, that would be judgement there. So if you do have sex before marriage you must not be religious?

"And I never said I knew gods plan reread what I wrote if thats the only thing you got out of it. And I didn't say it was impossible to get pregnant I said I never heard of anyone getting pregnant while on birthcontrol and using condoms at the same time I never said it didn't happen ever. I never heard of it happening."

Actually, it wasn't all I got out of it. I was hoping to make a point - that none of us knows God's plan. "Never heard of" is often used to express serious doub (an analogy - "I never heard of a flying pig"), and combined with the rest of that statement makes it seem like you believe she secretly wants this baby and/or is being blessed with a miracle. Oh, and now you have heard of it happening, so consider yourself enlightened.

"and in a sense yes it is giving your baby away" "When you chose to hand your baby over to someone elses loving hands you give up the right of raising that child" "But when you have a child your not making a choice for you alone your making a choice for your child as well so all I'm saying is make sure its the right one because its its not just your life." No, really? I don't think she thought of that. *sarcasm*

"I think in a way open adoptions are selfish".

"And some people may feel that a closed adoption is selfish and in away it is"

So....if closed adoption is selfish and open adoption is selfish....and you consider being selfish a bad quality...then all adoption is selfish. Waiting child/foster care adoption is an alternate form of closed adoption BTW, except in this case the children are removed rather than being voluntarily placed. So how is your wanting to adopt - taking someone else's child - through waiting child programs unselfish?

"It hurts that bad and you feel the reaction this way for a reason." Yes. It's called love. Love isn't all good feelings. It's also enduring pain for the sake of others. Y'know, like Jesus Christ did.

"And yes lots of people have sex so with everytime you have sex there is that possibility of pregnancy so you make your choices the minute you lay down it not just your resonsibility its also the mans."

And the responsible thing here is??????

"And yes accidents in cars but babies are never accidents they are blessings and thats just how I feel."

Just on my read, these read like righteous, closed minded lectures and judgements. Not advice, condemnation - for the sin of premarital/extramarital sex, for the sin of considering 'giving away' (ha!) a 'blessing', for the sin of being 'selfish', oh heck I could go on. All from someone who hasn't walked an inch of this path. Just warnings about God, and pain, and suffering, and all this without honestly any basis in anything.

Let me leave you with this, since you have presented yourself as a woman of Christian faith:

Matthew 7:1 - Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Luke 6:37 - Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Enough. Bad taste in my mouth. I hope some day some light shines on that closed judgemental space you call a mind.

Leigh, honey, I'm sorry you have to read this stuff. I firmly believe that God speaks to us through our hearts, only where you are at peace in your heart, go. If adoption is your path, then do so in grace and love. Find the family that you feel connected with. If parenting is your path, also do so in grace and love. Never ever let anyone make you feel pressured, guilty, a sinner, whatever, for doing what in your heart you believe is best. Hang in there.

IMHO

Regina