[lemonwedgie]

I am the grand-daughter of Ruth Ellen Batt (nee Evans) and we have recently found out that Ruth gave birth to twins (a boy and girl) in 1944, possibly December, Maida Vale, London. They were then given up for adoption.

Our family would love to find the twins and welcome them with open arms. Apart from 3 half brothers & a half sister, the twins also have a full sister who was born two years previously, they apparently have the same father.

If this sounds familiar to anyone out there, please contact me.

[Birth year edited at posters request]

[Robin Harritt]

Any idea what if any adoption society aranged the adoption? Was the place of birth on the twins' birth certificates a "mother & baby" or maternity home, which might have kept records of where the twins were discharged to?

Robin

[lemonwedgie]

Originally posted by Robin Harritt
Any idea what if any adoption society aranged the adoption? Was the place of birth on the twins' birth certificates a "mother & baby" or maternity home, which might have kept records of where the twins were discharged to?

Robin

Hi Robin

Thanx for your reply. We believe that my grandmother went to her sisters house at the time of birth and are assuming it was a home birth. Unfortunately, this has been a 'dark' family secret which an elderly member passed on in confidence to her own daughter and that is all the info we have. However, we are desperate to try and trace them, we are worried that maybe they have already tried and failed and we do not want them to think that no-one cares, because we do. Any help would be gratefully appreciated as I just don't know where to start.

Lemon

[Robin Harritt]

Thanx for your reply. We believe that my grandmother went to her sisters house at the time of birth and are assuming it was a home birth.

When you are doing this sort of thing, don't "assume" anything, get the birth certificates. Check out the place of birth see whether it really was a private house if it was, check the 1946 electoral register see who lived there. Look at the entry in right margin of the certificate that says "Adopted" were the amendments on both certificates signed by the same registrar? If they weren't then the twins were almost certainly separated and adopted at different times, (though if it is the same registrar, that doesn't by any means mean that they weren't separated).

Robin

[lemonwedgie]

Originally posted by Robin Harritt
When you are doing this sort of thing, don't "assume" anything, get the birth certificates.
Robin

Thank you for being so helpful.

Unfortunately, we have no birth certificates. My grandmother died over 20 years ago and took the secret to her grave. We found out because my grandmothers sister-in-law, who is very ill, decided to tell her own daughter as she didn't want to die with the secret. The sister-in-law was originally meant to adopt one of the twins but she then found out that the twins were a result of an affair so refused as she didn't want to be disloyal to her brother. Nothing was ever heard again, apart from the fact that they were given up for adoption outside of the family.

Like I say, all we know is that Ruth gave birth to twins, a boy & girl, and went to her sisters house in Maida Vale for support. We have the sisters address of that time but do not know if it was a home birth or not. With such little information and no birth certificates, do you think we will ever find them? I don't live in the UK anymore, but would it be worth flying over and trawling through the record books for births in 1946 and hopefully coming up with a match?

Again, thank you so much for your help as I really need it.

Lemon

[Robin Harritt]

Unfortunately, we have no birth certificates.

Lemon

I think you misunderstood what I am saying. You need to buy the their birth certificates from the ONS or from the local Registry Office in the area where they were born.

You first of all need to look them up in the Indexes to the Register of Births, you can do that in several ways, you can do it on the Internet at
http://www.1837online.com which is a pay to use website 10pence per page. Or you may be anle to find a library or record office near you that has the indexes to biths marriages and deaths on microfilm or microfishe. Or you go to the Family Record Centre on Islington London (nearest tube is Angel or Faringdon) its near the Sadlers Wellsopera and the Lillian Bayliss theartre. You can also order the certificates there.

If you look them up on the Internet or at a library, once you have found the necessary reference you can order the certificates from http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Until you have done that, I don't see how you can get any further forward. You might want to register on the Norcap Contact Register (and may be even join Norcap) in case they are searching for their birth family http://www.norcap.org.uk

There is also a government run Adoption Contact Register you can find details of that on ONS website can't find exact address at the moment as the site seems to be down.

I do hope that explains and helps you to make a start on a search.

After September 2005 the law is going to change so that you will be able to ask an Adoption Support Agency to undertake a search for them and ascertain their wishes with regard to contact with their original family (the Agency won't tell you where they are unless they give their permission), Some adoption agencies are already doing this, but after Sep 2005 it will be compulsory and it will be easier for the agencies as they will be able to have access to the court and ONS records. But to get any further even then, you will need to have found got hold of a copies of the birth certificates.

Robin Harritt

http://harritt.net

[Robin Harritt]

Lemon

I've just had a quick look at the birth indexes for the last qtr of 46 and 1st qtr of 47. I can't see anything that is obviously a set of illegitimate twins named Evans born in the December quarter of 1946 in anything that I recognise as the Maida Vale area, obviously there are quite a lot of Evans about 8 pages per quarter. Maybe they weren't born in December 46 maybe they weren't born in London. I think you are going to have to check the whole country for all of the year and get the certificates for any that look likely. Is there any other name than Evans or Batt that they might have been registered under? If you live in Hertfordshire, and I have an inkling that you might, then the nearest place to look at the birth indexes is at County Hall in Hertford, in the Local Studies Library, you need to make an appointment to use the microfiche machine.


Robin

[lemonwedgie]

Originally posted by Robin Harritt
Lemon

I've just had a quick look at the birth indexes for the last qtr of 46 and 1st qtr of 47.

Many thanx for having a look, that was very kind of you. So, there wasn't anything under Evans or Batt? To look at the whole country, would that be available on 1837online? I don't think she would have registered them under any other name, she also had another child 2 years previously with the same man who we did know about (as she was adopted within the family) and she was registered under my grandmothers married name Batt, so maybe they won't 'look' illegitimate on record.

Again, I cannot thank you enough for your time and help, I am determined to find them.

Lemon

[lemonwedgie]

Originally posted by Robin Harritt
Lemon

If you live in Hertfordshire, and I have an inkling that you might, then the nearest place to look at the birth indexes is at County Hall in Hertford, in the Local Studies Library, you need to make an appointment to use the microfiche machine.


Robin

By the way Robin, I live in the US now (previously Surrey) so my searching will have to be done online. If you have any tips for how I should search they would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanx.

Lemon

[Robin Harritt]

Sorry my eyesight, only two Evans-Batt on the 2001 Electoral Register I still couldn't look at the right one, I can see now that you were in Sutton not Welwyn.

I'm afraid with a name as common as Evans it isn't going to be easy you are just going to have to study the birth indexes for 1946 and March Qtr 1947 (if they were born December they might not have been registered until January) very carefully and may be buy several different certificates.

Until you know their names and date and place of birth there isn't much else you can do. What made you think they were born in Maida Vale?

The only Batt twins that I could find were in Chelmsford and their mother's maiden name is listed as Everest they both appear to be boys from the names.

Robin

[Robin Harritt]

Perhaps I should add, my experience from my own family has been that on two occasions where a child was born illegitimately the birth can be found in the indexes twice once under mother's name and once under the father's name but both with the same entry and volume number.

Another two of mine that were illegitimate were listed only under the father's name but showing the correct mother's maiden name as if they hade been married even though they were not.

All of the others, my mother had eleven without ever marrying, were listed just in her name.

What I am trying to say here is that you should not make any presumptions about how they will be listed in the index to the birth register. You will probably need to look under both names. I hope she registered them as Batt it will make things a lot easier for you.

Robin

[lemonwedgie]

Originally posted by Robin Harritt
I hope she registered them as Batt it will make things a lot easier for you.

Robin

Robin

I cannot thank you enough, you are being so helpful. I really didn't know where to start but now I feel as though I am better equipped with your help.

The reason we believe Maida Vale is because the info we were given by a cousin was that my grandmother went to stay with her sister (Gert) whilst she was having the babies. My fathers oldest brother remembers that Gert, at that time, lived at 41 Blomfield Road, Maida Vale, and he also remembers the gentleman in question as he was reprimanded as a 7yr old for complaining that the man was being too 'close' with my grandmother. However, we don't know if my grandmother gave birth at home or at a hospital.

Like I say, the other illegitimate girl born in 1944, was registered under my grandmothers married name, Batt so I am hoping she did the same with the twins, but who knows.

When I search on 1837online, will I have to look at the certificates individually as I don't have the babies names, or will I be able to search under my grandmothers maiden name? Also, will it be obvious that they are twins? Would they have the same birth certificate number or consecutive?

This really is going to be a complicated mystery to solve isnt it. But, I am determined to do so as I can't bear the fact that there are two people out there who have no knowledge of their Mum. I know its not much, but at least I could show them photos, enlighten them on the type of person she was and most importantly, let them know that they have family here that love them and want to welcome them. And, of course, the fact that they have a full sister born 2 yrs previously. Do you think its right of me to do this?

Kindest regards,
Lemon

[Robin Harritt]

Lemon


All you get to see on the index to birth register is the name of the child listed in alphabetical order ( though some are hand written in at the foot of the page). the maiden name of the mother, which if the child is illegitimate and no father stands up to be recognised. will be the same as the child's surname, the registration district the birth was registered in (always the same as the district where the took place) and the Volume number and page number. Twins would usually have consecutive numbers in the same volume. But twins will not appear consecutively on the Index unless their first names are similar enough for them to be in alphabetical order. That is all you will get from the indexes on 1837online.

To get any more information on an individual birth you have to buy the birth certificate. The birth certificate will tell you the full name of the child including middle names, the exact date of birth and in the case of twins the exact time of birth, the place at which the birth took place, the full name usual address and occupation if any of the mother, the name address and occupation of the father if known, the name and address and qualification of the person registering the birth (usually the mother) and the name or the registrar. If the child has since been adopted the certificate will have "Adopted" and the name of the superintendent registrar making the alteration, in the right-hand margin.

Certificates cost at least 7 uk pounds each, more if they have to do any looking up.

It would be better from your point of view if they were born in a maternity home or mother & baby home, there might then be some chance of a record of where they were released to.

It might in any case be worthwhile asking the London Metropolitan Archive if they have any record of events, but they might not be able to tell you whether they have or not unless you can give them names and a date of birth.

Records for M&Bs and for some defunct adoption societies and old London borough adoption records as well as many records from the old county of Middlesex pre boundary change, can be found at the London Metropolitan Archive see:

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/leisu...ives_museums_g alleries/lma/

for a list of downloadable leaflets see·

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/leisu...ives_museums_g alleries/lma/information_leaflets.htm

They also apparently have a Family History Research Service, for users who are unable to visit in person. See:

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/famil...arch/index.htm

But, the charge for a search will be calculated at a rate of £24.00 (£20.43 plus VAT) per hour. This will include charges for report writing, postage and administration, prices might be out of date.

As you say this really is going to be a complicated mystery, but I don't see why it should not be solvable, you have more to go on than I started out with. Only advantage I had was being a bit closer to London, but at least the indexes are now on the Internet.

I was the seventh and last (as far as I know) of my mothers children to be adopted. I've found all of them, one sadly died before I found him, I've also found the three surviving of her four kept kids. So obviously I'm going to answer yes when you ask me do I "think its right of me to do this?".

I really do hope you find them, if you've any other questions don't hesitate to ask. If you want access to a lot more, I hope, equally helpful people then can I again suggest that you join NORCAP http://www.norcap.org.uk which is the charity organisation that I work for on a voluntary basis.

All the best

Robin

[lemonwedgie]

Originally posted by Robin Harritt
Lemon


All you get to see on the index to birth register is the name of the child listed in alphabetical order ( though some are hand written in at the foot of the page). the maiden name of the mother

Hi Robin

Thank you for all the links, I will definitely join Norcap, especially as you volunteer for them.

I am about to take a look at 1837online and see if I can 'suss' it out for myself, although I may need to call on you for a bit of advice no doubt!!

Thank you so much Robin, you've allowed me to see through the trees now. I will keep you updated on my search.

Lemon

[lemonwedgie]

Hi again Robin

have just contacted my cousin to see if there were anymore details and guess what - she gave me the wrong year!! I'm so sorry that you wasted time looking in the indexes. The twins were born in 1944, apparently December (she doesn't know why she said 1946!!). She was definitely told that my grandmother went to London (Maida Vale) to stay with her sister. Would you happen to know what 'district' Maida Vale comes under - would it be Greater London on the indexes?

I am glad that you can see my plight - you obviously understand me after the searching you went through. I am glad that you managed to find your siblings, it must have been a very happy moment for you all. And after hearing your story, you have given me hope on my mission.

One last question though, although my grandmother was married, it may have been possible that she registered them under the fathers name .... now if that is the case, I can't see how I will ever find them. Any tips?

Many thanx Robin. I don't know how to repay you for all this help you have given me.

Lemon