[PHYLLYDOLL]

Well, we finally heard from NAC, but not a date...they now want us to get another set of birth certificates, marriage license and divorce decrees (both my husband and I are formerly divorced). When we got these certificates in October of 2003, the secretary of state of course signed them and dated them the day she signed them. The NAC is now saying that our marraige and divorces have EXPIRED!!! Have any of you had to do anything like this?

Now it is back to the health department and then back to our state capital to have the documents apostilled...again!

I suppose there is nothing to do done but jump when they want something else. We have come so very far on this journey and now that our documents have been at NAC since July, we are at least happy to know they are working on our dossier.

Our faciliator said he has never seen this and says they seem to be having more and more demands from the adopting parents. Isn't it ashame with so very many of their children in need of forever families!

Phyllis

[Max'smom]

Perhaps somewhere on the document there was a one year time limit on the seals.

[PHYLLYDOLL]

Max'sMom

Thanks for the answer, but, no there isn't an expiration date on any of the certificates. The date which I spoke was the date the certificates were signed by the Secretary of State.

[LisaS7895]

We're just starting the whole process and I can't tell you how helpful I find this forum- thank you all for sharing your experiences!

While I don't have anything "useful" to offer about this latest hoop the NAC is making you jump through- it IS encouraging because like you said, at least you know that they are working on your dossier! I hope and pray that the next thing you hear from them will be your appointment date- and that you get this VERY quickly!! Best Regards, Lisa S.

[cpflem]

Phyllis - What has probably expired is your "notorization". ALL of your documents are only good for one year. That is what people are talking about when they say their dossier is going to expire. All those little bits and pieces that it is impossible to get in one day so they all are good for the same amount of time! :-)

You are right - the only thing to do - is do what they ask. And just think of the reward when you are tucking in your precious child in his/her own room.

Hang in there. Ukraine is not for wimps! LOL

Penny

[Mykidsmom]

Hello,

Our agency told us not to use a notary that would expire in the next twelve months of our documents being notarized. I think the notary commision is for 3 years(?). So we did find this helpful. Usually there was always another notary available that their commision expired at a later date, if we incountered a problem.

Mykidsmom

[cpflem]

Even if the notary doesn't expire - the document does - in a year. So no matter what you have done - if it takes a year from the time it is notorized to complete your adoption - you have to re-do paperwork. We compiled ALL of our documents as quickly as possible because of that. The only thing we are having to update is our social workers license - which expires annually so there is nothing we could do about that. We will take an appostilled new copy with us when we travel.

So much to take care of - isn't there.

:-)

Penny

[drjeanne]

I can see how a notary can expire but, how can a copy of your marriage license or divorce decree expire? I don't see that! Please explain! We're just finishing up our homestudy and we've managed to have our documents notarized by someone who doesn't expire for 3 years. So far so good but, with what's happening in the Ukraine politically right now....you just don't know what's going to happen or how long it will take to get an appointment at the NAC! We'll all have to say a prayer!

PHLLYDOLL, thank goodness you're as far along in the process as you are! I pray you'll have an appointment soon! Remember to find the good in everything! God has a plan!

Best of luck!
J

[PHYLLYDOLL]

Thanks to everyone for your replies and support. The NAC is not saying the notary is out of date, our states certificates doesn't have a notary, they are signed by the secretary of state. However, when you get a copy of the certificates from the state, the date that they are signed by the secretary of state (usually the date you pick them up) is by the signature line. This is the date they are using to say they are expired. And Dr. Jeanne you are right, these documents do not expire in our world.

I emailed the US Embassy in Kiev last night to get there take on this, since the certificates are official U.S. documents. They replied by saying that in the Ukraine all documents are only good for one year and that is what they go by because of the Ukrainain Law which we are subject to.

Well I have spent an entire day, several hundred dollars and 8 hours of travel, to get all of those documents again and they are now in the hand of DHL Delivery to Kiev. I can only hope that this is it and our date will be on the way to us next week.

Keeping my fingers crossed
Phyllis

[kc4601]

I know it doesn’t make sense to us but please read and understand. The NAC in Ukraine considers all documents to expire in one year from the earliest official date on the document. My wife and I were in Ukraine in August and successfully adopted a girl 18 months and healthy. It can be done don’t lose hope.

But you must understand that it is their game and they make all the rules. Arguing and making appeals to logic will not help at all. If you are still in the US and can get new copies of the documents DO IT. We ran into this same problem with marriage certificates on our trip. We found out on a Friday and would have lost a minimum of 5 days over this error. Our Facilitator was able to negotiate an agreement only because we could not get new copies of the documents.

Check all of your documents 2 weeks before you travel. If any dates will expire within 11 months of your appointment date get new copies. Let me say that again get new copies. It doesn’t matter that it doesn’t make any sense. This applies to the physical dates also, and not just the date on the bottom but all the dates for the physicals and the blood tests as well.

I was frustrated at the document bureaucracy. I didn’t think it made sense. It doesn’t make sense. Just do whatever they ask a couple of hundred spent stateside will save days of worry and heartache in Ukraine. Remember it is their game and they make the rules.

Appealing to the Embassy will not aid you in expediting anything in Ukraine. Work with your independent facilitator he/she is your best bet for resolving problems in Ukraine. Friendly negotiation not confrontation is the way to move things along.

Just my opinion based on my experience. Keep going it’s hard but worth the effort.


KC

[Mykidsmom]

I agree with previous post (KC) .

When in Ukraine we questioned our facilitator about something that was required ( not confrontational, just curious) and she told us "LIFE IS GAME". So from that point on when we were ask to do something or get something we did not think made since, we would just laugh and say LIFE IS GAME. We figured when we played there game we all come out winners.

After it is all over you know you can handle anything, because you were able to satisfy the govvernments in 2 countries.


Mykidsmom

[v_kats]

Dear Phyllis,

I don't think it is any consolation to you, but I have read of another family that also had their dossier rejected in the summer because their marriage license was issued more than a year ago (even though the apostille was only about four months old).

In Ukraine, all documents are good only for one year from the date of issue (perhaps with the exception of the medical form that may expire earlier if the test results are dated earlier than the document was issued). Even if you get a certified copy from your county clerk, vital records dept, etc., it has to be issued less than a year ago at the time of approval, despite the fact that in U.S. such documents are valid perpetually.

Sincerely,
Victoria

[Eric Reisedge]

Let me offer you one peice of advice. We just returned from adopting in Ukraine on November 24, 2004. We adopted a 21 month old little boy. About two weeks before we were scheduled to leave which was October 27th, we ended up having to update seven of our documents from our dossier. Even though the dossier was already accepted and at the NAC. What we learned while we were in Ukraine is that the NAC changes the rules on a day to day basis. Our facilitator spent many hours there verifying and double checking that our documents were correct and up to date. Luckily we adopted not far from Kiev and we were able to stay in Kiev the whole time. I hope you understand that it is very common to update your documents for the NAC. Even though it doesn't make sense and it is frustrating to do so, we learned that getting upset doesn't make a difference to the NAC. My point is... try not to get frustrated. Just do it and think about the end result. Trust me, it's worth the hassle!

[PHYLLYDOLL]

Eric thank you for your advice. It is so good to hear from a parent who has just returned and successfully adopted. Since I first posted this thread, I have heard from many parents who have had to update documents of all sorts. I do now realized that they just do not operate like we do in the states, however, they have what we desperately want, so we must operate on their terms. We are so hoping to be able to travel in the next month, although we have not been notified of that and are now thinking that we may as well start updating our medicals which will be a year old in Feb. As you know it is hard keeping your hopes up after finally getting your dossier completed, just to have to start doing it all over again.

Congratulations on your new son. We would all love to hear your story. Do you have a website set up yet? Keep all of us posted.

Phyllis

[USIRLPUA]

I can certainly relate to you PHYLLYDOLL. We completed our dossier in June 04 and have since had to revised POA papers, medical forms (include our doctor's license). Last month, we had to do our medical tests etc. all over again because they expired. The rest of our dossier is good until April and the I600 will expire in October.

When we began our homestudy in 2003 and began exploring Ukraine as a possible choice, we found that the NAC was processing dossiers in 2-3 months. By the time we had our dossier completed, the process has nearly come to a hault.

There are many things about this process which have given me concern. In spite of doing everything that I am supposed to do, I am begining to have doubts of a sussessful outcome. Even if we get a date, the prospects of finding a child that is reasonalbly healthy may be difficult. But this is the path we chose and we continue to move forward.

Now, in the next few weeks, we too may be doing our dossier over again. At least I now have the experience of what it all entails.

Good Luck to all.