[BeckC]

I've been reading and thinking about all the race threads lately and there was something that was bothering me that I hadn't been able to put my finger on.

I've noticed some people expressing the idea that biracial people are no different than so called "full" AA people by either phenotype (looks) or genotype (genetics) because most AA people already have mixed genetics. I totally understand and it makes sense to me. I was getting caught up on the idea though that a person raised by two AA parents may have a different cultural experience than someone raised by one AA parent and one CC parent, and why would it be bad to make that distinction?

In the NYTimes video link that Sbaglio posted I noticed that a lot of the multiracial students were not talking about racial issues so much as cultural issues, ways of dealing with both sides of their families, and both communities.

Do you think there's an important distinction between multiracial and multicultural?

For example - I'm white. I know that 7 out of my 8 grandparents were white. We're not sure about one of my great-grandfathers. We have good reason to believe that he is not white, and that he might have been black. No one knows for sure and so far no one has been interested enough to take a DNA test. But suppose he was black. That would make me what? Black? Biracial? I certainly don't look black, and I couldn't say that I've lived "the black experience". I would love to find out for sure just to have that missing piece figured out and to celebrate all of my heritage, but that doesn't change the way I'm perceived by society AND the culture that I grew up with.

It seems to me that when people are categorizing themselves as biracial or multiracial what they're really wanting to make clear is the fact that they a part of two or more cultures.

Thoughts?

[nickchris]

The kids were from a certain culture, at least I could id the ones who expressed them-self in the clip. Yes, they discussed embracing both family member's specific culture. How one is raised is different than one's race. I noticed the language, food clash, more so with the biracial Asian person.
Cultural as a term is tricky, such as my kids are Black, and act via what I call the suburban culture. They do not blend in well in the rural or urban setting and so on.

I also know mixed couples (black and white) who do raise their children to be aware of who they are. They are sensitive as to how society at present will treat the child. In most cases it's the parent of color who throws in that nugget of wisdom.

If you read the book by Bliss Broyard, it shows how passing affects a family. If you look a certain way, and are raised to THINK a certain way then yes you will not feel part Black or White even if you have 1/8th of that particular race.

However, the one drop rule (as in the phenotype typecasting) can go both ways.

[Sleeplvr]

NickChris

Isn't your family two cultures? Part from the Islands and part from here. Now that is definition of two cultures.

Having two black parents vs having one white and one black doesn't really fly especially if both have been in this country a very long time. If they are both from the burbs or whatever part of town then you should have similar lifestyles unless you are maintaining a culture from your ancestors origin.

You have to be careful about the direction you may be taking when talking about raising a child multicultural. It could come off sounding like someone is raising a child white or black and there are positive or negative associations with each.

My ancestry is African, Native American and European. We still observe some Native American traditions. So am I multiracial and multicultural?

[nickchris]

Yes dh and I are a "culturally mixed" couple. Food, music, ways of expression, and so on.
But can I cook the good island food no? lol

I so agree Sleeplvr.

[ocracoke]

All this can get complicated but here is how I look at my family...

I am caucasian (mostly, I think). I adopted my daughter who is of African dissent. So we are a transracial family.

My daughter is from Ethiopia and living in America. This technically makes her African American. She has dark hair, dark eyes, dark skin. The average person will think her race is African American.

Her culture is Ethiopian by birth. She will learn the language, holidays, history, food, dance, music of Ethiopia. And she will learn the culture of my family (which in my case is muddled). Combining those 2 things makes her multicultural.

So we are transracial and multicultural but not biracial in my family. I think. But more importantly -- we are family.

Samantha

[Quesita]

It is a complex set of issues. I believe that culture (and values) come from both family and from community. I try to make sure that my daughter is exposed both ways.

My daughter is Latina, and we live in a community in which Latin Americans represent about 40-50% of the population. Latin American culture is abundant, and as someone who speaks Spanish and has lived in Latin America, and has family currently living in Mexico, Latin American culture is very familiar and comfortable. It is integrated into the fabric of our lives. Food, music, Spanish on the street. Every night before she goes to sleep, an elderly neighbor takes her on a "paseo" down our hallways and gives her "tres besos" and a blessing.

I feel like I'm doing that part pretty well.

But she is also Mayan, and I try make sure that I maintain connections with the subset of the Latin American community that is indigenous. When she is older, I hope to also have the opportunity to introduce her to some of the Native American traditions as well, since many of those traditions are very closely related to the traditions of her ancestors.

As I consider a second adoption, it gets more complicated. If I adopt from Ethiopia (and that might not be possible for me as a single) I will be bringing a black child, and an African child, into a neighborhood in which the majority of the blacks are Afro-Caribbean, and the majority of the Africans are of Arab descent. So how do I even define her culture? She will be black in America. In the neighborhood, and at school, most of the kids whose skin is her color, come from a culture very different from her native culture, and very different from mainstream African American culture. She will not speak Amharic on the streets, the way my daughter speaks Spanish in the streets. She might even lose Ahmaric all together, because although I will study it, I certainly will never speak it the way I speak Spanish.

Is it a bad decision?

Friends of mine laugh, and say that I will overcompensate Ethiopian culture, just to be fair. But I am not sure.

I've also considered Haiti for a second adoption. Haitian culture is more familiar to me. I speak two romance languages already, and I am certain I could learn French easily, and incorporate some creole. There are Afro-Caribbeans in my inner circle of friends. And she would fit more comfortably into the ethnic fabric of the community.

I've looked into foster to adopt, and although I know other families who have had success with that route, I have been told that the chances of being placed with a single child under the age of 4 is practically zero. And I actually feel less well equipped to raise an AA child in my immigrant-based neighborhood.

So yeah. I'm thinking a lot about race and culture and identity and values, and how each of them relates to my family. Motherhood is enormous. I want to do it right.

Ocracoke, you seem to have it all clear in your mind. Multicultural and transracial. Your daughter's cultural traditions, you family's (muddled) traditions.

[manni28]

I've also considered Haiti for a second adoption. Haitian culture is more familiar to me. I speak two romance languages already, and I am certain I could learn French easily, and incorporate some creole. There are Afro-Caribbeans in my inner circle of friends. And she would fit more comfortably into the ethnic fabric of the community.

I've looked into foster to adopt, and although I know other families who have had success with that route, I have been told that the chances of being placed with a single child under the age of 4 is practically zero. And I actually feel less well equipped to raise an AA child in my immigrant-based neighborhood.

Question?

How would you feel less equipped to raise an AA child but would consider adopting a child from Haiti or Ethopia, they're all black?

[sbaglio]

How would you feel less equipped to raise an AA child but would consider adopting a child from Haiti or Ethopia, they're all black?

Have to chime in here. This is the central misunderstanding. Are Germans, Swedes, the French, the Irish, Russians, and Australians all the same, because they're all white? No. So why the assumption that all blacks are culturally the same, wherever they are from? Blacks in the African diaspora are as different culturally as are the Europeans. I won't even get into how different I am as an African, to African-Americans, or Caribbean-Americans, or Afro-Brazilians. Of course I would be much more equipped to raise an African child. I'm surprised that this was even mentioned, to be frank.

[manni28]

Originally Posted by sbaglio

Have to chime in here. This is the central misunderstanding. Are Germans, Swedes, the French, the Irish, Russians, and Australians all the same, because they're all white? No. So why the assumption that all blacks are culturally the same, wherever they are from? Blacks in the African diaspora are as different culturally as are the Europeans. I won't even get into how different I am as an African, to African-Americans, or Caribbean-Americans, or Afro-Brazilians. Of course I would be much more equipped to raise an African child. I'm surprised that this was even mentioned, to be frank.

Sbaglio:
I am very well aware of the cultural differences amongst black people ( I have a degree in cultural anthropology and I am very well traveled) I asked the question because " I" see no difference between adopting a child from Haiti, Ethiopia or the U.S. if its an infant/newborn adoption. The child will grow up in an American environment; speaking English; following American customs ( while retaining some of their indigenous traditions as well). So what is the difference if the child is an infant? The child is basically a "clean slate". It's like me adopting a child from Africa, they will know their origins but will be growing up in an home that is 100% middle-class American. The child will mostly like identify with the American side because that all they have known culturally.

Also I'm assuming the OP is white, so she having concerns about raising an AA child, but not a child from Africa or the Caribbean, doesn't make sense ( no pun intended). Regardless of where they're from, they're black children being raised in an Euro-American home. Her family will still be seen as a trans-racial family and the child will mostly likely identify themselves as AA/black. Now if she is talking about the different socio-economic levels within the AA community and not being able to "relate" that's different. If she associates AA cultural as being 'ghetto' ,which I'm sure she doesn't, then she should make it a point to associate herself with upper/middle class black folks. Because if she's ( the OP) middle-class, the child will identify with all middle/upper middle people regardless of race ( like I did growing-up).

-Manni

[ChromaKelly]

Originally Posted by manni28

Also I'm assuming the OP is white, so she having concerns about raising an AA child, but not a child from Africa or the Caribbean, doesn't make sense ( no pun intended). Regardless of where they're from, they're black children being raised in an Euro-American home. Her family will still be seen as a trans-racial family and the child will mostly likely identify themselves as AA/black. Now if she is talking about the different socio-economic levels within the AA community and not being able to "relate" that's different. If she associates AA cultural as being 'ghetto' ,which I'm sure she doesn't, then she should make it a point to associate herself with upper/middle class black folks. Because if she's ( the OP) middle-class, the child will identify with all middle/upper middle people regardless of race ( like I did growing-up).

-Manni

Her post made sense to me. She lives in a neighborhood with a large African-Caribbean presence, has friends of that background, so it would be easy for her to keep that culture present in a child's life.

[ocracoke]

Manni,

Just to jump in for a second. It looks like by your post you are looking only at race and not culture. Yes, they are being raised in America but that doesn't mean the culture they are raised in is all American. When I lived in Massachusetts I lived in a town that was about 75% Hispanic. Almost all of the Hispanics were from Puerto Rico or Dominican Republic. I learned a lot about their customs and traditions and beliefs. Now I live in an area where almost all of the Hispanics are from Central America. It is a very different culture with many different traditions.

My daughter looks African American to the average person. But anybody who has been exposed to the Ethiopian culture (by birth or otherwise) knows instantly that she is Ethiopian. I have had complete strangers approach me and ask if she is Ethiopian. And as a parent of an Ethiopian child it is very important to me that I raise her with connections into the Ethiopian community here in America, that she know the history of Ethiopia, that she learn Amharic (the national language of Ethiopia), that she have traditional art and music and artifacts of Ethiopia, that she have traditional dresses, that she eat and cook traditional food, etc. I, as a parent of an Ethiopian child, take on those tasks when I opt to adopt from Ethiopia. These are all things that I would not be doing if I was raising an African American child from America. Yes, my daughter is American. Yes, she is black. But she is also first generation Ethiopian-American and I want her to have that culture as well as the American culture (if I can figure out what that is). Personally, I do think it is different to raise a child from Ethiopia, then from Ghana or Liberia or Haiti or America. They are all different experiences because it is not all about race.

JMO,
Samantha

[manni28]

Manni,

Just to jump in for a second. It looks like by your post you are looking only at race and not culture. Yes, they are being raised in America but that doesn't mean the culture they are raised in is all American. When I lived in Massachusetts I lived in a town that was about 75% Hispanic. Almost all of the Hispanics were from Puerto Rico or Dominican Republic. I learned a lot about their customs and traditions and beliefs. Now I live in an area where almost all of the Hispanics are from Central America. It is a very different culture with many different traditions.

My daughter looks African American to the average person. But anybody who has been exposed to the Ethiopian culture (by birth or otherwise) knows instantly that she is Ethiopian. I have had complete strangers approach me and ask if she is Ethiopian. And as a parent of an Ethiopian child it is very important to me that I raise her with connections into the Ethiopian community here in America, that she know the history of Ethiopia, that she learn Amharic (the national language of Ethiopia), that she have traditional art and music and artifacts of Ethiopia, that she have traditional dresses, that she eat and cook traditional food, etc. I, as a parent of an Ethiopian child, take on those tasks when I opt to adopt from Ethiopia. These are all things that I would not be doing if I was raising an African American child from America. Yes, my daughter is American. Yes, she is black. But she is also first generation Ethiopian-American and I want her to have that culture as well as the American culture (if I can figure out what that is). Personally, I do think it is different to raise a child from Ethiopia, then from Ghana or Liberia or Haiti or America. They are all different experiences because it is not all about race.

JMO,
Samantha

Sam ( if I may):

I get it about culture thats why I said if the OP associates AA culture with "ghetto" ( which it is not, because ghetto is a sub-culture just like trailer park trash is a sub-culture for white folks), then she needs to associate herself with upper and middle class black AA people. My parents are AA and I was raised in a nearly all white middle-class neighborhood in Miami, Fl. My parents made sure that my sister and knew about Black history and they made sure that we socialize with other middle and upper middle-class blacks.

-Manni

P.S. I am very familiar with the Latin American experience, I grew up in Miami, Fl which is the gateway to Latin America. I went to school with people from South and Central America as well as people from the Caribbean and America.

[nickchris]

Hmm, I get both sides here. My people are from the islands. However if you ask the children they say they are American and act as such, they have American friends. They do have a taste for Island music as well as the mainland types of music. One do like island food, I am in-between, one do not care for the food. Maybe the correct title for the subsequent generation would be ____-American. The adoptee would need to know of the history, foods and such with the aparent.. simply because that's the aparent's job to keep that link.
However as Manni said the child will be the class culture of that parent. Race wise, as with my family we are seen as Black. Therefore an American Black child and a Black child from xyz will be no different in the long run. Most that I know do acquire the American culture. Its the parents, grandparents, or an older auntie etc; who keep the little cultural isms, history, and quirks going. Class level is another aspect as well. Some cultures are more so than others, but this is my perspective.
To be honest my mother was not into our island roots so to speak, and was not into the subcultural language creole/patois. My Grandmother required proper English when mom spoke.. so we do not go there. The same with the foods. Thus I am not able to cook the good island foods. lol

[manni28]

However as Manni said the child will be the class culture of that parent. Race wise, as with my family we are seen as Black. Therefore an American Black child and a Black child from xyz will be no different in the long run. Most that I know do acquire the American culture. Its the parents, grandparents, or an oldr auntie etc; who keep the little cultural isms, history, and quirks going. Class level is another aspect as well.

Nick;

Thank you, that is what I was trying to say.

-Manni

[manni28]

To be honest my mother was not into our island roots so to speak, and was not into the subcultural language creole/patois. My Grandmother required proper English when mom spoke.. so we do not go there. The same with the foods. Thus I am not able to cook the good island foods. lol

Your mom must have been more English than the English! LOL

-Manni