[BeckC]

Originally Posted by Sleeplvr

This is where the disconnect comes on the forums. Biracial by definition does not necessarily identify who your parents are which is how you are using the term. Biracial means of two races but the two races are combined at any point in your family history. You are using a very narrow definition of the term.

Ok, I think we're making the same point. lol

I agree with the definition of biracial, which is why I suggested that the young adults in the video were not talking so much about race as their different cultural experiences growing up with families of two different races.

[nickchris]

Its as complex as the child's parents make/allow it to be. I live in an upper middle class area. I watch the kids they use the same lingo, mannerisms, similar shows, and music likes. Place any of these children regardless of race in another environment, and they would not fit in.

[BeckC]

I skimmed over the Black Culture thread and I think I can see the point that some of you are trying to make with regards to the term culture. Perhaps culture is not the perfect word. But if the child wants to identify as something that acknowledges his unique experience (I know I keep using that phrase but I'm not sure how else to word it) and biracial isn't the right word, and bi/multicultural isn't the right word, then what is?

Culture seems to fit best to me. I understand that black culture isn't just one thing, but isn't the shared racial experience a part of all of black culture?

[nickchris]

Can you explain shared racial experience?

[BeckC]

I can try.

I'm trying to refer to "the black experience". That sounds like the name of some sort of IMAX ride with 3D glasses in Epcot center or something lol but I can't think of a better term.

In Aclee's thread (I promise I'm not trying to beat a dead horse) people were saying that regardless of whether her son is "full AA" or "biracial" that society will see them as black and treat them as black.

Well then, what does "black" mean?

There are common themes that run through most if not all of black culture. Black people, from all walks of life, face the same discrimination in this society. Just because it's a fairly common one to discuss here - hair. Hair is a big issue that is complicated, common to black culture, and white culture is pretty ignorant of it. I'm not at all saying that black culture is nothing but discrimination and hair, those are just two examples.

When I went to college I went to a couple Black Student Union meetings with my friend (long story). There were about a dozen students (what can I say, I went to school in Maine lol) from all different backgrounds. Some of the kids were from the suburbs, rural Maine, my friend was from New York City, a couple were exchange students, but all being black in America they all had a shared expereince.

[manni28]

WHOA! When did I say that I associate AA culture with the ghetto or that I've never socialized with "middle or upper class blacks"? I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you are making wild assumptions and putting words in my mouth.
Perhaps I was unclear in my original post. The point I was trying to make was that if a person is born to parents of two (or more) different races, then their racial/cultural experience growing up may be different than that of a person that grew up with a family of only one culture or race.
For the record I wasn't just talking about AA families, but since you brought it up, I'll use it as my example. Two families, one CC, one AA are from the same part of town as you put it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but regardless of economic class, the AA family is going to have some experiences and perhaps traditions that are different from the CC family and pretty exclusive to AA people or other non-white people, and vise-versa. If a child is raised in both of those families then their experience may be different than a child who was raised in an all AA family or all CC family. And by identifying as biracial instead of just AA or just CC then perhaps they are simply acknowledging their unique experience instead of making a racial statement.

I think I get what you're saying: why "exclude" one paren'ts race especially if the mother, who is the primary caretaker, is white. I totally "get it". She's doing the primary work of raising the child to adulthood, I totally get it. What we're saying is not exclude but be realistic, in the terms of racial identity and discrimination.

President Obama's mother and gma ( God Bless those women) did an excellent job of raising him, and I'm sure they DID tell/teach him about being discriminated against because he was black. I can imagine a white women sitting with a group of prejudice folks and hearing what they say about black folks ( or interracial marriages); not knowing she is married to a black man, and the mother of a black child. I think that's what's Hallie Berry's mom experienced ( and she is Hallie's rock).She explained to Hallie how the world will she her as black, regardless of who her one of her parents are.

In regards to AA culture and Euro-American culture, whats the difference if you all are from the same class? And for the record, I never said you identify AA culture as "ghetto".

Manni

[nickchris]

I see where you are going. Yes hair views fall under culture, and is still going to vary based on how the person is raised.

I addressed that in the beginning of this thread. Same way a parent of a Black child should be cognizant, and raise said child.

I always discuss raising a child of Black ancestry to be aware. Awareness of how society still will treat a person with dark skin.

However as for the "Black experience" lol yes it sounds like a catchy academic piece.
Not all of us experience the same racial issues, or are going to react or add priority to said issues in the same way.

Originally Posted by BeckC

I can try.

I'm trying to refer to "the black experience". That sounds like the name of some sort of IMAX ride with 3D glasses in Epcot center or something lol but I can't think of a better term.

In Aclee's thread (I promise I'm not trying to beat a dead horse) people were saying that regardless of whether her son is "full AA" or "biracial" that society will see them as black and treat them as black.

Well then, what does "black" mean?

There are common themes that run through most if not all of black culture. Black people, from all walks of life, face the same discrimination in this society. Just because it's a fairly common one to discuss here - hair. Hair is a big issue that is complicated, common to black culture, and white culture is pretty ignorant of it. I'm not at all saying that black culture is nothing but discrimination and hair, those are just two examples.

When I went to college I went to a couple Black Student Union meetings with my friend (long story). There were about a dozen students (what can I say, I went to school in Maine lol) from all different backgrounds. Some of the kids were from the suburbs, rural Maine, my friend was from New York City, a couple were exchange students, but all being black in America they all had a shared expereince.

[Quesita]

Originally Posted by manni28

Question?

How would you feel less equipped to raise an AA child but would consider adopting a child from Haiti or Ethopia, they're all black?

I tried to stick in a quick response this morning, but brevity is not one of my skills, and my 2 year old had other plans for my time! The discussion has gone in a different direciton already, but let me respond anyway, because I guess that when I look at the words written down, it doesn't make sense.

For me, it is really personal.

I've worked with immigrant/refugee/internationally displaced communities for the past 24 years, (yeah, I'm old) both in the US and in Latin America. I live and work in the nation's second most diverse zip code in terms of ethnicity. 120 languages are spoken by children attending the public schools. 16 languages are spoken by the staff I supervise at work.

In addition, I am the granddaughter (and great granddaughter) of immigrants, and the experience of having one foot in one world, and another foot (or maybe just a toe) in the other world is very familiar to me. And it is an experience that is very familiar to most of the children playing on the playground where I take my daughter.

Most of the black people on the playground, and down the hall and in the elevator in my apartment building, and on line at the supermarket, are immigrants or the children of immigrants. I have close friends who are Afro-Caribbean. I don't have close friends who are US born AA. I also don't have close friends from sub-Sahara Africa, and that is something that I think about when I consider Ethiopia. But for some reason, I continue to be more emotionally drawn to Ethiopia than to Haiti. Or maybe it is just the reality that Haitian adoptions seem to be taking two years AFTER a child is referred to you, and I am just not emotionally prepared to travel to Haiti, meet the child who will be my family, and then leave her in an orphanage for 1 1/2 to 2 years while paperwork sits on desks.

But in any case, international adoption just felt (and feels) like the right way for me to be a parent. I've considered lots of other options. I've considered AI (anonymous doner, gay male friend doner with shared parenting that turned out to be a really bad idea once we started discussing parenting styles, but that is another story!), but I decided not to go in that direction, and at this point I'm probably a bit too old to revisit it. And I also considered foster care, because I know that there is a great need.

But I just feel like my community, and my life's cumulative experiences have lead me to being the parent of an internationally adopted child. And hopefully, two internationally adopted children.

I feel like there are sometimes tensions between families who make the decision to adopt domestically and families who make the decision to adopt internationally. But each of us has had a long, complex set of life experiences leading to our decision to become adoptive parents. It is very personal. And for each of us it is very different.

[nickchris]

I think what was discussed in the earlier part of this thread, and elsewhere. Culture should be based on where one gets their input from the parents/family, class levels, and their surroundings. Marriage/partnership is a union of people from different family structures, and dynamics. A couple who is interracial should know that they have a harder road to travel... and should raise their child to be able to flow between their different worlds. Especially when the union is between a minority and majority race. The family should be invloved, expectations set on the child's input. Same with any who parent, we should be aware of what our children may deal with, and prepare them. Personally to say to one child's be whoever is ridicilous, and that is not realistic. A child is to be prepared regardless to navigate and deal with all types of situations and people. This is of course what we as adults do in the work world and daily life. Those who are successful figured out the right balance. Helps when parents give the young adult a decent foundation to start on.

Race on the other hand, if Manni would interject here is not a definite but a social construct. Per my readings, there are more variants in each particular race, than between the so called different races. However, these social constraints defines us and since we are speaking of the US, we go according to what Black is, and viewed as. According to the Caucasian term, it encompasses people of may hues. Mediterranian, North African, Middle Eastern, Irish, Scottish, and so on. These are broken down to ethnicities within the caucasian race. Light and dark skinned, variations.
So how come we are separating those who fall under the Black category? really why is it a darker skinned Black/kinky haired person in a constrained box. I do hope you know there are other races with large noses, and frizzy, kinky hair. I do suggest that those who adopt children of Black ancestry read up on Black history to include the census issues, where the definition of race came from, and why. In addition apply this new knowledge to the entire AA community, not just one component. It is very dangerous and a reliving of White people making the decision to redefine who Blacks are. To me this is evident in the adoption field, with the fee difference marketing the so called biracial children as different and BETTER.
This thought process is taken up although without malice..by adoptive parents who feel they are doing right by their child. In the long run it is a repeat of the effort to constrain Blacks. As said before sensitivity needs to be at play here.
Once again genetically, AND phenotype wise...AAs come in many skin hues, eye color, hair color and textures.
AAS/Blacks has embraced each other despite Jim Crow laws and its nasty input. Even in the Islands, (a part of the Americas) thanks to methods to control by the slavemasters, there were lots of issues with the division of the darker and light people. In addition, we who are Black and mingle among light, dark and inbetween, it is a part of our present and past families.. we see it in pictures, we see it everyday... we do know and experience.
One who is Black based on the above views with the caucasian/white term.. should be able to say; I am Black with so and so either as a ethnicity base. ie: Native American, other indigenous, Scottish, or French, and so on. Same as Black of Hispanic ethnicity.

[manni28]

But I just feel like my community, and my life's cumulative experiences have lead me to being the parent of an internationally adopted child. And hopefully, two internationally adopted children

.

Quesita:

I totally get where you're coming from and I wish you the best.

-Manni