[sbaglio]

I read the NYT article when it came out a few months ago, but I just found this video of the young people featured in the article on YouTube:

YouTube - NYTimes.com - Being Multiracial in America

I just found it interesting how they were defining themselves, rather than allowing society to define them (that was my read, anyway).

I wonder what the mindset will be when my daughter is their age.

[sugarandspice697]

I liked that clip and I think society's prospective on multiracial people has changed a lot. I have a mixed cousin on my partner's side of the family (her mother was AA and her dad was CC, she grew up with her mom and never knew her dad) and she said that one of the worst things her mother did was not acknowledge her Scandanavian and Black roots. Most people would not accept her as fully AA because she has curly dark blond hair and sky blue eyes nor as fully CC because she "acted" AA.

[manni28]

I don't know, the majority of the kids talking looked like full-blooded AA's. I don't "get it?". Yes you should be proud of your heritage but society will always see you as black if your phenotype is AA, because we come in different colors and with various features.

-Manni

[sbaglio]

Manni, I know what you mean. American society has followed/believed in the concept of the "one drop rule" for generations, even after it was discredited, subconsciously or otherwise.

But I think these young people were saying that they bridge the divide, and won't let society define them. That's a change, in my opinion.

And I also think that we forget that American society and ideas are not universal. Outside of the U.S. in many places (including Africa), mixed kids are seen as just that, and are not assumed to be black. "Coloureds" are seen as a separate race in much of Southern Africa. In much of Latin America, people are so mixed that one can't call anyone a full anything (mestizo). I'm not saying that they are necessarily discriminated against less (though they were during apartheid and in my own home country).

At any rate, I think it's a good discussion for these kids to have, especially when, like sugar's friend, they don't quite fit into one group.

[manni28]

Manni, I know what you mean. American society has followed/believed in the concept of the "one drop rule" for generations, even after it was discredited, subconsciously or otherwise.
But I think these young people were saying that they bridge the divide, and won't let society define them. That's a change, in my opinion.
And I also think that we forget that American society and ideas are not universal. Outside of the U.S. in many places (including Africa), mixed kids are seen as just that, and are not assumed to be black. "Coloured" are seen as a separate race in much of Southern Africa. IN much of Latin America, people are so mixed that one can't call anyone a full anything (mestizo). I'm not saying that they are necessarily discriminated against less (though they were during apartheid and in my own home country).
At any rate, I think it's a good discussion for these kids to have, especially when, like sugar's friend, they don't quite fit into one group.

I agree but I'm on the "fence" so to speak. I sometime wonder if people do identify themselves as "mixed" to distance themselves from the full-blooded AA's? We have come a long way, but their are still some of "us" that will say: I'm 1/2 Irish; 1/4 Indian and oh, I have a "little" AA.

Also it wasn't too long ago that people who were lighter and had "good hair" were considered "different/better blacks" ( for example the "creoles" in New Orleans). Like I said before, I'm kind of on the fence with the multi-cultural thing, because it can seem ( not is) that people are trying to distance themselves from AA's. I'm all for being proud of who you are, but when it can become a " I'm different from the AA's" thing, you lose me.JMHO
-Manni

[nickchris]

I agree Manni, in the US our culture is based on different views based on history, and we have to be real about it. Black is/was viewed/treated as the negative.
What separates how my kids look (where he is asked if he is mixed) with 2 AA parent, from a 2 parent biracial child. What separates them? it gets too convoluted. imo.
Big difference with those who are in a home with their respective race parent (s). However, remember Halle Berry's mother utilized commonsense in how she spoke of self identity, and society.

Originally Posted by manni28

I agree but I'm on the "fence" so to speak. I sometime wonder if people do identify themselves as "mixed" to distance themselves from the full-blooded AA's? We have come a long way, but their are still some of "us" that will say: I'm 1/2 Irish; 1/4 Indian and oh, I have a "little" AA.

Also it wasn't too long ago that people who were lighter and had "good hair" were considered "different/better blacks" ( for example the "creoles" in New Orleans). Like I said before, I'm kind of on the fence with the multi-cultural thing, because it can seem ( not is) that people are trying to distance themselves from AA's. I'm all for being proud of who you are, but when it can become a " I'm different from the AA's" thing, you lose me.JMHO
-Manni

[sugarandspice697]

Manni and Nickchris:I'm not trying to start a debate but I just want to pick your brain. Would you feel the same way if the BR person "looked" fully CC? If this person had wavy brown hair a sky blue eyes (like DP's cousin) would you believe that their denying their heritiage if they identify themselves as AA?

[nickchris]

No problem. We are viewing heritage based on? How about the so called full looking AA offspring with a White and Black parent? We do need to look at both sides of the coin. Phenotype can be problematic, its really about genotype..
I am going to stick to the aspect of the Black DNA contribution (due to its negative societal basis) as opposed to another minority.
Look at Chris Rock and Tom Joyner who has more CC in their DNA? should they separate based on their phenotype or genotype? Are CC people as pressed to find out how much Black is in their DNA?

As President Obama indicated (non-quote) how am I seen, and treated regardless of who my parents are?

Is there a problem being proud of who we are, what our heritages are.. what our parental lineage are? no.

My stance is this, let's get into the meat and potatoes of race relations, and perceptions before we try to reach the prize.

Originally Posted by sugarandspice697

Manni and Nickchris:I'm not trying to start a debate but I just want to pick your brain. Would you feel the same way if the BR person "looked" fully CC? If this person had wavy brown hair a sky blue eyes (like DP's cousin) would you believe that their denying their heritiage if they identify themselves as AA?

[nickchris]

Not the US but an example of getting to the meat and potatoes, beyond looks.


BBC NEWS | Americas | Brazil stops to mark black rights

BBC NEWS | Americas | Deal in Brazil fashion race row

[manni28]

Sugar & Spice:

I know you're not trying to start a debate. But I think you know what I mean when you hear someone, especially if their phenotype is very AA, say: "I'm 1/2 Irish; 1/4 Indian and oh, I have a "little" AA". The first think "we" say is " oh yeah, you look "black" to me!" You know how "most" of us are about being proud of our African Ancestry; a lot of us find it insulting when it seems someone is trying to distance themselves from being AA. Look how we made a stink when Tiger Wood said he wasn't black.

Now on the other hand, I have seen people whose phenotype was pure white and they would tell you " believe it or not, I'm half black!". They dont try to "pass" or deny their AA heritage. For example, look at the family members of Eartha Kitt. I know for a fact that Eartha's daughter Kitt , always let it be know she had a balck mother. The granddaughter can pass for white, which she is. See link below

http://static.open.salon.com/files/e...1230288128.jpg

-Manni

[nickchris]

First time seeing that, good for Eartha Kitt.. even though she was treated horribly as to her own identity as a child. It's all about what we as parents teach our children about the full picture. Quincy Jones kids comes to mind too.
My back ground is multiracial, so is dh, if we did not know, we surely do now based on our biological children. My boys show this.. to a point other Black children are asking my older what is he mixed with. I was mistaken for my younger son's teacher. One looks likes an Asian mix, the other a Black and White mix.
Complex.

[manni28]

Quincy Jones kids comes to mind too

Exactly, and they will tell you: "I'm black". In short, there's no shame in being of African descent which I agree with 250%. I think thats why a lot of us black folks are on the fence about a multiracial category.


-Manni

[millie58]

manni and nickchris: I totally get what you're saying. I, myself am mixed and I classify myself as a black Indian mixed with white. first, most AA's here more than 2 generations are mixed. But by saying you're just AA, you don't credit all your ancestors. for Tiger Woods to say he was black, would have "dismissed" his mother. I had a BR teenage fs a few years ago. He was AA/CC but he classified himself as AA/Hispanic with a little white. His bio mom is white so he was dismissing her. I now tell my kids to be proud of who they are. With the races mixing "with more ease", you'll have more BR and multi racial kids.

[veggiegirl]

Thanks for posting that. I enjoyed it. What a beautiful group of "kids", huh?!

[joskids]

I'm not black so I won't comment. I only know what I see . . . that in this country, there are many that try to stop any of us (woman, minorities) from being the best we can be . . . IF we let them.

I just wanted to thank you ladies for your openness in regard to race. As an AA mother to 4 black (and biracial, geesh) children, I am always interested in your opinions and find much value in reading a thread that values this kind of openness.