[nickchris]

Hi,

Who raised you? Not sure where one would leave out their parent unless its intentional. Did Halle Berry dismiss her mother? how about President Obama, did he dismiss his mother and his maternal grandparents? He went through identity issues as well if I remember his book. It's up to the parents to raise especially biracial kids, with some commonsense as to how they will be perceived. For sure last year, and now Obama was viewed as Black regardless of who his mother was.
My grandmother had mostly other, and more than likely little if any Black in her. Based on her country's culture, she did not consider herself as Black, but a "colored" woman. Identity wise she was able to say I am a _____ in regards to her place of birth. However, this is the US, I am giving the other perspective.

Did anyone read the following comments where it was said.. oh what is that Black woman talking about.. what is she mixed with? how do we get past the phenotype bias?







]manni and nickchris: I totally get what you're saying. I, myself am mixed and I classify myself as a black Indian mixed with white. first, most AA's here more than 2 generations are mixed. But by saying you're just AA, you don't credit all your ancestors. for Tiger Woods to say he was black, would have "dismissed" his mother. I had a BR teenage fs a few years ago. He was AA/CC but he classified himself as AA/Hispanic with a little white. His bio mom is white so he was dismissing her. I now tell my kids to be proud of who they are. With the races mixing "with more ease", you'll have more BR and multi racial kids.[/quote]

[nickchris]

Quick story, somewhat related. I frequented, and patronized a store while going through the adoption process. The owners and I got to a point where we would chat for a bit. Anyhow, during the last visit, I discussed the adoption fee issue based on race. One of the owners said so what would they pay for a Sicilian baby like me, I am not White. lol I said, sorry, but still the White baby fee.. she and I laughed.

[SHD]

Sbaligo thank you for posting that video. I found it very interesting. DD is multiracial. I've stated before that individuals who are AA look at her and know that she is AA. While they realize she's "not all the way black" they know she is AA. Also people who are of Asian decent see the same thing. Her skin color is tan, her eyes are so dark the look black and her hair is dark and curly. With all this in mind I want her to understand what society sees when they look at her. Nickchris it's interesting you point out Halle Berry because I remember a statement she made about her mother holding up a mirror to the two of them and asked Halle what she saw. When she realized the two of them were different colors her mother told her that is what society sees in her. She never dismissed her mother, who was and still is her rock. I feel like that was a valuable lesson her mother taught her, one I intend to pass on to my DD.

Manni, even though I am CC I understand what you are saying when an individual only acknowledges a "little" of their black side. It's almost as if they don't want to admit it.

I feel that racial identity is a slippery slope. I don't want my DD to dismiss any of her races yet I know that when the society at large looks at her they see a child who is not white. I try to instill a sense of pride in all of her colors. (she'll tell you in a minute she's 6 colors)

As noted in the video that the 2000 census allowed more than one race to be acknowledged it will be interesting to see what the new numbers will show.

[sugarandspice697]

Here's an article in Times magazine saying that children who are multiracial and have parents that embrace their multiracial hertiage are bettere adjusted. check it out here: Are Mixed-Race Children Better Adjusted? - TIME

[sbaglio]

Originally Posted by sugarandspice697

Here's an article in Times magazine saying that children who are multiracial and have parents that embrace their multiracial hertiage are bettere adjusted. check it out here: Are Mixed-Race Children Better Adjusted? - TIME

Thanks for posting this. Great article. I'm going to try to find the original study.

ETA: Found it. Just Google the author(s) and the journal cited in the article.

[Sleeplvr]

The problem I see with that mixed race kids are better adjusted article is that is doesn't specify who is raising those kids. Are they in a two parent home so they can see both races? Are they being raised in a single race home? Your identity is greatly impacted by who is raising you and your general community. So just telling a child they are xyz may not cut it if the role models can't not effectively reflect it in some fashion....KWIM?

Here's the problem with a mixed race or multiracial or even biracial category... who is going to be the gate keeper on those terms? Some of the most vocal people supporting biracial and multiracial categories want to restrict who can use it.... meaning you can only claim it if you have one parent of each race or if your skin is a certain color (paper bag test) or hair is a certain texture. What about two biracial or multiracial people producing a child? Is that child now a single race because he/she doesn't have parents who are two distinct races? Some people say that person is no longer biracial or multiracial.

[manni28]

Here's the problem with a mixed race or multiracial or even biracial category... who is going to be the gate keeper on those terms? Some of the most vocal people supporting biracial and multiracial categories want to restrict who can use it.... meaning you can only claim it if you have one parent of each race or if your skin is a certain color (paper bag test) or hair is a certain texture. What about two biracial or multiracial people producing a child? Is that child now a single race because he/she doesn't have parents who are two distinct races? Some people say that person is no longer biracial or multiracial.

Sleep:

See this is what I'm concerned about, the " I'm different from them" mentality. Like Sbaglio said before, in some countries mixed blacks are viewed as a "different" race( which was used as a divide and conquer thing) and with that, comes the whole "I'm better than you" mentality. We AA's are very funny about some of us that don't claim their African ancestry, we see ourselves as one, because most of us are proud of our African "roots". I have two nephews that are mixed ( their father is white and their mom is black), but they identify as being black because they are, imo.

I believe to each it own, but when a person uses that to distance themselves that's another story.

Sugar:

I read the article and I have to say I don't agree. I can't see the relevance in the article about mixed children being better adjusted because they accepted by both worlds.

Most people know that many mixed blacks here in the U.S, identify as AA because that's how society sees them. In fact, some will even tell you that the white side of their family wasn't as welcoming to them as they were to the CC children when they were growing up. You still have some whites that will tell a mixed race person: I don't care what kind of "black" you are, I still don't like you! I can't imagine a mixed child being told their "different and not really black" but yet, is still treated as a "regular" black. That would mess me up if I were a child!


-Manni

[manni28]

Quote:

Here's the problem with a mixed race or multiracial or even biracial category... who is going to be the gate keeper on those terms? Some of the most vocal people supporting biracial and multiracial categories want to restrict who can use it.... meaning you can only claim it if you have one parent of each race or if your skin is a certain color (paper bag test) or hair is a certain texture. What about two biracial or multiracial people producing a child? Is that child now a single race because he/she doesn't have parents who are two distinct races? Some people say that person is no longer biracial or multiracial.

I'm posting again to correct some typos!

Sleep:

See this is what I'm concerned about, the " I'm different from them" mentality. Like Sbaglio said before, in some countries mixed blacks are viewed as a "different" race and with that, comes the whole "I'm better than you" mentality(which is used as a divide and conquer thing). We AA's are very funny about some of us that don't claim their African ancestry, we see ourselves as one because most of us are proud of our African "roots". I have two nephews that are mixed ( their father is white and their mom is black), but they identify as being black because they are, imo. I believe to each it own, but when a person uses that to distance themselves that's another story.

Sugar:

I read the article and I have to say I don't agree. I can't see the relevance in the article about mixed children being better adjusted because they are accepted by both worlds.

Most people know that many mixed blacks here in the U.S, identify as AA because that's how society sees them. In fact, some will even tell you that the white side of their families weren't as welcoming to them as they were to the CC children when they were growing up. You still have some whites that will tell a mixed race person: I don't care what kind of "black" you are, I still don't like you! I can't imagine a mixed child being told their "different and not really black" but yet, is still treated as a "regular" black (experiencing racism/discrimination). That would mess me up if I were a child!

-Manni

[nickchris]

I know many mixed race kids who are well adjusted and were raised with some commonsense of how they will be viewed in this society. Simply knowing this does not make such a person one who will deny who they are.

Excellent point Sleeplvr. Who and what is the motivation of the "gatekeeper"? In addition, as said prior..once one is less than 3/4 of a certain race, how will they be defined? The thing is many in the US can relate to the 3/4 or less than of a certain race. I view this trend to be based on looks alone, that is not the utopia of racial identification that I agree with.

I have yet to find anyone answer me as to where my boys, or better yet.. we the parents who made these boys. How would we be classified?

Manni good point regarding how one will be treated. Also I do notice the darker people are still at the bottom of the class pole. Case in point, Brazil and so on. Therefore it shows the re-classification is only superficial. Get to the bottom of the racial issues first.

[Sleeplvr]

Nick

I'm less than 3/4 black according to my DNA test. LOL! I have always known my ancestry but don't feel the need to make that my calling card when meeting people. My DD is who was presented as multiracial is more African than I am. Her other ancestry is more recent and mine is further back from generation after generation of biracial and multiracial people having kids.

If someone feels the need to tell you their ancestry when you first meet them they are usually uncomfortable about some aspect of it... trying to say I'm not what my phenotype shows me as being.

[sbaglio]

Okay, all great answers. What I seem to be noticing is that the opinion is that because society sees you as a certain race, you should identify as that race. Is that correct, or am I off? Or perhaps because society sees you as a certain race, it is easier to be that race that they perceive, rather than any other?

If I've understood this correctly, this is a point I've spoken about in other threads. I realize that because I grew up in Africa, in the majority (even though there were CCs and other races in my world), my perspective may be different. But I've lived in North America since 1993, and I assume that when I go out, people think I'm AA even though I'm not (well, other Africans can tell I'm not!).

I've always said this - why let society define you? I think that a person can balance the idea that society sees them as AA, and they can see themselves as multiracial. Pres. Obama may see himself as black, and appears to be very well-adjusted. So does Tiger Woods, who sees himself as multiracial. Of course, he knows that when he is out in the world, most people see him as black. But that doesn't change how he sees himself, kwim?

As for people thinking they are better than AAs if they are mixed, I think that you are all correct - white is often seen as better. But I don't think one can make the assumption that all people of mixed race who wish to identify as such see themselves as better than AAs. It is what it is. If you're mixed, you're mixed. You can't change who you are, only who you perceive who you are, or perhaps how people perceive you. Some choose to embrace that, others choose to select one race to be, for whatever reason.

I fully understand that given the history of this country, mixing of the races is a touchy topic. But I guess that I have a problem with what I see as the perpetuation of the "one drop rule", by many blacks, no less - that if you have one drop of black, then you are all black. I can't look at Carol Channing and see a black woman. Maybe you can, but I can't. And that's okay. She can call herself what she wants. So can Halle, Barack, Alicia etc.

If I let society define me, a gay black man, I'd be in a grave right now. I don't think everyone is so beholden to society's mores. One can be cognizant of what society thinks - I know what this society thinks of a black man on the street at night, and of gay men in general - but not allow that to define you. At least, I don't.

[Sleeplvr]

Sbaglio

How do they determine race or ethnicity in your home country? I always heard stories of people having to go before a board to get their official race changed or assigned. You were automatically assigned your parents race but if you wanted to change to something else you had to prove a case showing that you met the criteria for another race. For example some people have coloured and black in the same family just because of how the genes fell out.

In this country there used to be a mulatto or coloured category depending on the region of the country until the Census Bureau got rid of it. The Census Bureau determined that the majority of blacks in this country were mixed race so they combined the Mulatto and Black category. I've done my family tree and my husbands and according to the Census Bureau I have only one black ancestor in my tree... my husband doesn't have anyone categorized as black in his tree. Most regions of the country switched to using Negro during the elimination of the mixed & black category. They worked with that for a while and then it changed to Black.... then African-American I thought a new name was coming in the year 2000. LOL! I'm guessing the shift biracial and multiracial is the new thing.

[manni28]

In this country there used to be a mulatto or coloured category depending on the region of the country until the Census Bureau got rid of it. The Census Bureau determined that the majority of blacks in this country were mixed race so they combined the Mulatto and Black category. I've done my family tree and my husbands and according to the Census Bureau I have only one black ancestor in my tree... my husband doesn't have anyone categorized as black in his tree. Most regions of the country switched to using Negro during the elimination of the mixed & black category. They worked with that for a while and then it changed to Black.... then African-American I thought a new name was coming in the year 2000. LOL! I'm guessing the shift biracial and multiracial is the new thing.

Sleep:

I don't mean any harm, and maybe because my parents were very active in the civil rights movement, but what do you mean by "I only have one black ancestor in my tree"? Is you phenotype black or do you look like Eartha Kitt's daughter? Again, this why I'm on the fence with bi-racial and multi-racial categories. To me, and just me, it seems that people are trying to distance themselves from being black. The Euro-Asians that I know consider themselves "Asian" not Euro-Asian. Why can't black folks do the same? What is wrong with being of African descent? I was always raised to be proud of my race, heck, I was named after Angela Davis!

I don't "get it" it seems no other race has a problem with being "pure/full-blooded" except some of us, the black race? Do you know no matter how you identify yourself, there will always be someone there to call you a "N" regardless how "multiracial" you are.

I do think Hallie's mom did her a huge favor by letting her how the world will see her; and what I wrote is what her mom basically was telling her.

-Manni

[oceanica]

I think that often people who don't fit into one category or another find themselves excluded from both sides.

[manni28]

I think that often people who don't fit into one category or another find themselves excluded from both sides

Oceanica:

Not really, most mixed blacks in the U.S. identify themselves as black because we come in many shades and have various features, and no matter what you are "mixed" with you will still face discrimation. Also, we are more accepting of mixed raced blacks because there is a lot of mixture in us. In fact, there are many mixed people that will tell you the white side of their extended families weren't accepting of them when growing up. What "I" basically have a problem with is the notation of a separate race category. Not matter what you ( the individual) want to call yourself, there are people out there who still considered you an "N".

For example, there were two men one black and the other mixed, they both wanted to purchase an item in a store. The black man went in first and later came out. The mixed man asked where was his purchase? The black man told him the shop owner didn't serve black folks. The mixed man laughed and went inside; he was mixed so the owner wouldn't have a problem serving him. Several moments went by and the mixed man still hadn't been served. He finally asked the shop owner why? The shop owner told him: "sorry, we don't serve YOUR KIND here". The mixed man said: "I'm not black, I'm mixed!". The owner said: " I DIDN'T ASK YOU WHAT KIND OF "N" YOU ARE, WE DON"T SERVE YOUR KIND HERE!"

Do you see where I'm coming from? Not matter what you call yourself, you will still face racism. And to be honest, I think any parent who tells their child " your bi/multiracial, not black" isn't preparing the child for the real world and some of the harsh realities that come with it.

-Manni