[JenC]

I've learned that I easily over think transracial/racial things. For example, Josh is really into animals now (what toddler isn't??) and loves to go around making different animal sounds. I hate it when he makes monkey sounds...I know, I really do, that it's just another one of his animals, but I cringe a little inwardly. See, I told you I can over think things!

Josh will usually watch a TV show in the am after breakfast while I run through the shower. He LOVES LOVES LOVES Curious George. I HATE HATE HATE it! I know I could just not let him watch it, but he will ask for it, and I really don't want to tell him no just because of my hangup if it's unjustified.

But George really bothers me. First, the whole premise of the show - The Man With The Yellow Hat (TMWTYH) goes to Africa (ok, I assume that) and brings home a monkey of his own (because, I assume, "the jungle" or wherever George is from, isn't good enough and TMWTYH wants to show him a "better" life here).

Ok, do I have adoption issues or what??

That, and he's always saying "now be a good little monkey". Ok, I know George is a monkey, for pete's sake...but I can't stand it.

Is it me? Do I over think this? Or are these valid points?? (My DH votes for I think too much)

[loveajax]

Jen, my daughter's nursery decor is Curious George and I love reading her his books (though the show annoys me). I also used to call my DD "monkey" sometimes, because she was such a little goofball. (My friend who also has a black daughter was offended and I obviously "understand" the reasoning, but I do think sometimes we can "see' things that aren't there just as easily as "missing" stuff that is there!).

[Celesyee]

My dad who lives in a different state called Devin "monkey," and I was really offended. I thought he was calling him "monkey" because he's AA....little did I know my dad calls ALL kids "monkeys" regardless of their race and if he knows them or not.

My former boss is Puerto Rican, her DH is AA/Japanese/Irish and they have a 4y/o bio dd. Last Christmas, my boss's MIL bought the 4y/o a Barbie Doll bike. My boss threw a fit and said she refuses to allow the "bimbo" (Barbie) in her house and exchanged the bike for Dora the Explorer. My boss said she didn't want her dd growing up believing blond, busty, and small waist is ideal.

So JenC...I can see her's and your concerns. But IMO it's up to us as parents to help our children understand TV and toys from reality as age appropriate. However, I don't allow/watch TV shows or movies to be played in my house that perpetuate or support racism or stereotypes, i.e. Seinfield, Dog the Bounty Hunter, The Geisha.

[Sohmakun]

Actually I have AA friend who is dressing her biological BR daughter as a monkey for Halloween. lol

Seriously though, its just a television show. Let your son watch and enjoy it. I would only be concerned if friends or family were calling her that in a negative manner. That's when your maternal instincts will set in and trust me, you will know the right thing to do when that time comes.

Oh BTW does anyone here LOVE the Curious George books? I bought one for my "future child" that we can read together when he/she gets a little older.

[Yash]

JenC,

You are waaayyy over thinking this. It's just a silly cartoon that I happen to love.

[JenC]

Ok, I'll release some of my issues and just enjoy a cartoon! I figured you all would tell me I'm over-analyzing, and that's what I need!

[HeidiK]

Have the same issue...one of the nurses I work with calls all the kids monkeys - I hate it but keep my mouth shut and figure as long as she never calls my kid that - its not for me to judge...

[Celesyee]

Okay...this thread really got me thinking. As I showered I thought, a cartoon is a cartoon. However, Curious George was created in the 40's when racism was much more intense and overt. So a cartoon can indeed perpetuate racism/stereotypes if that is what the artist originally intended.

So, I searched the internet for "curious george racism" and evidentally this isn't the first time that Curious George's innocence was questioned. However, I also read articles about the publisher being upset about Barack Obama being depicted as Curious George.

So JenC...IMO, you just may not be thinking too much.

[mommamarci]

I am VERY against monkeys for my kids. No Halloween costumes, no birthday party themes, no bedrooms. I never even thought of this until I read something online one time where an AA person said how much it offended them. I may be over thinking, but is it really going to hurt my kids if they don't have a monkey room or costume? I would rather avoid offending people.

As far as cartoons, I am undecided. My kids do not watch TV, ever. So, I have not yet encountered this issue. I think I would be okay with them watching it though. I would have to watch a few episodes and see how I felt.

[Ladyofmoonlight]

I've actually been thinking about the term "monkey" a bit lately. Up until a few months ago I had NEVER heard of it as a racist term, only used to describe small kids (maybe one of the benefits of growing up in a 99.9% white state is I didn't hear racist slurs).

My son came home clinging all over me and climbing on everything. I called him monkey all the time. To me, he was my cutesy, clingy li'l monkey, with the term used only with affection. But then I found a discussion about it online and realized the connotations it can have and it just made me sick. It makes me sick that there are so many derogatory terms out there for people, and it makes me sick that I can't use a term that I hear other people using for kids all the time. Honestly, it's just another form of racism, isn't it? My friend can call her CC children monkeys and no one bats an eye, but I can't call my son that, at least not now that I know how others will perceive it.

I don't have a problem with him having monkey toys or seeing Curious George. Wouldn't it honestly be just as racist to keep him from things other kids enjoy because of his race?

Oh, and I did get used to not saying monkey, though I still slip up now and again. It's hard when you're around so many people that call their kids monkeys affectionately. I'm finally used to calling him my little Koala, seeing as how he sticks to my legs and holds on. I had to google several terms first to make sure I wouldn't get in trouble.

[PersianMama]

Rent the movie-George meets the Man when the Man's in Africa looking for a lost relic, and George stows away on a ship to bring the Man back his hat. It's cute. Also, the Man tries to get rid of George because he doesn't fit into his life, but he falls in love with George.

[JenC]

This has actually turned into a great thread! I'm like Marci - no monkey Halloween outfits, birthdays, or room decorations. Um, I don't even think we have any stuffed monkeys. I know it's innocent when he makes monkey noises and it's no different than lion or doggie noises. And I would be very offended to hear of Obama referred to as a Curious George, all politcs aside! I know it's a cartoon that young kids won't associate anything negative with, but it bothers me deep down, even if I am overthinking it. I'm still thinking on this tonight.

Oh, and Megan - every time I see Paxton's pic I crack up! I love our goofy little Ethiopian boys!

[Celesyee]

Originally Posted by Ladyofmoonlight

I don't have a problem with him having monkey toys or seeing Curious George. Wouldn't it honestly be just as racist to keep him from things other kids enjoy because of his race?

For me it really goes back to origin of intent. If Curious George or something else kids are enjoying was created out of racism or stereotypes, I can't and won't support it in anyway. If we know something is racist, yet we allow our children to enjoy it then isn't that inself racist?

Kids enjoy playing "ring-around-the-rosey" but look at the origins of that game. Abercrombie & Fitch created and attempted to sell t-shirts that they thought were funny...however, the Asian American (specifcally the Chinese American community) was outraged by the blantant racism. Sometimes it's all fun and games...but to others, that fun and those games are hurtful. JMO

[loveajax]

hmmmm...i'd be curious to know if black people think curious george is itself racist (obviously I know ''monkey'' can be used in a racist way)....dd's birth parents liked the cg theme and have given her a bunch of cg stuff...i have read a ton of the books, etc. and wonder if I am missing something? the obama stuff ....yeah....racist, but to me it was how it was used, not cg itself. all I know is that dd loves him, and I love the things he teaches...about being curious, exploring, etc.

[Ladyofmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Celesyee

For me it really goes back to origin of intent. If Curious George or something else kids are enjoying was created out of racism or stereotypes, I can't and won't support it in anyway. If we know something is racist, yet we allow our children to enjoy it then isn't that inself racist?

See, I guess my issue is that I never, until recently, heard that anything having to do with monkeys could be taken in a racist way. Maybe it's naivete, but my husband and friends hadn't heard of it either and we aren't from the same areas of the US (or the world even). Before bringing Pax home we were told that Ethiopian children love monkeys and hate hyenas, something that's proven true. We picked out several Curious George things for Pax. Again, never knew it might have any racist origin, in fact I was addicted to one Curious George tape as a kid (does this show my age?) and I was actually really excited to share that with my child. I've never seen any harm in it as there was, in my opinion, no intent of harm. Paxton loved his toy monkey and anything with monkeys on them, even made monkey sounds. Heck, he was from an area with a lot of monkeys hanging around, he thought they were awesome. Imagine my surprise when I find out that this isn't just frowned upon but apparently makes me quite racist (or at least a little dim).

Sorry for the ramble, just trying to explain that I have a bit of an outsider perspective here. I won't be calling my son "monkey" anymore as I know how it would be taken by others even if that's not how I mean it. But I still think that the "monkey" issue is overthought oftentimes, to the point of becoming racist itself.

Racism, to me, is treating one human being differently because of his/her race. That's it. Say my son loves Curious George, just like a CC best friend. Say both want to be Curious George for Halloween. Now, are you going to tell me it's racist to treat both children as equals and NOT racist to treat them differently based soley on their differing skin colors? I mean, I get that fighting racism involves going against stereotypes, fighting old terms, actively combatting historically racist notions, etc. But isn't it possible that sometimes, like in this case, we go beyond being anti-racist and, dare I say it, become racist ourselves a bit? Just in a few tricky areas anyway?

This is a tricky situation no doubt but to me it seems a bit, well, silly I guess. That's the word my husband uses for it anyway. Maybe I'm just hopeful that if I didn't learn that "monkey" was racist and others I've spoken to didn't know, maybe it's not as common anymore. I mean, if people didn't hear it/pick it up in parts of Maine, New Hampshire, Seattle, North Carolina, Australia and Jordan, maybe there's hope that the term is indeed dying out and maybe someday my son can fully enjoy Curious George or wear a monkey costume if he wants without any stigma attached, either racist or anti-racist. Or maybe that's just a silly hope.