[atouchofheaven]

so i started a whole big debate with my brother over the use of the "n" word and it's appropriateness in modern society. i'll give you the backstory and i'm looking for some opinions about this topic (especially from african americans).

my brother is young (25) and CC and his girlfriend (who i don't like anyway but that's another story) posted on my brother's facebook the lyrics to some rap song with the "n" word in it. so i told my brother i thought it was offensive for a white suburban girl to use that word, especially knowing i (with a BR son) can read it and that it's on my brother's page (who has a BR nephew). i think it's inappropriate.

and he seems to think that the word doesn't have the negative meaning that it used to and he says it all the time around AA friends and they say it to eachother so it must be okay. basically nobody thinks it's offensive anymore. apparently, now, it means "friend". i have a hard time believing this is accepted outside of the AA culture. is this true?

hearing that word is like hearing the "f" word to me. i just cringe. and i don't ever want to answer when my son asks, "what does ____ mean?" especially in public, especially since he has CC parents, and especially if it was my brother who said it in the first place. i made it clear that i didn't want him to ever say it in front of me or my son, but i don't think he should be using it at all, whether his AA friends are offended are not?

am i just crazy here? what do other people think?

[djvj]

my personal opionion (i am cc) is that it is just an ugly word, dating back to a time when an entire culture was treated horribly. i know with young people today it is popular to use, personally, i can't even speak it aloud. if an AA feels differently, i respect their right to use it, as some say they are reclaiming the word and making it their own. i have a harder time when people of other ethnic backgrounds use it. this is only my personal opinion though and i don't believe i have the right to tell anyone else what to do/think/or how to behave. i do believe i have the right to be offended by it though, as i believe you have the same right. especially if your son is exposed to hearing it - it seems to be the same as any curse word, something that a child should not be exposed to if possible.

[SupaModel]

I'm AA and if I heard a CC person saying it I would be VERY OFFENDED! Now I think it's an ugly word and I don't use it but growing up it was used all the time in my community. It was just something that we called each other. Now that i'm older and understand more I never say it. I still have family members who use it and say it's part of their culture.

[ProspectiveSingleMom]

I'm CC, but grew up in a racially diverse community, and for the AA kids I went to school with, it was generally okay for an AA person to use the word, but not anyone who was not AA or biracial with one of the races being AA. Indeed, there was a CC boy who yelled out that word during a high school football game, and the entire school heard about. Everyone was offended, regardless of race.

[naca]

I'm CC and would never use that word. I don't feel it's an appropriate word to use & would be VERY offended if it were used in front of my AA sons. However from what I've seen, it does seem to be acceptable in the AA community- used amongst themselves.

[aclee]

I had this discussion with an AA couple from our church too. It seems like this is something that the younger generation (feel weird saying that at 30, but you know what I mean) is using more and more frequently. I think it could be a situation where they don't truly understand the offensiveness of the word for many, or lack respect in how AA older than themselves were treated with this word. I think it's a sensational word that they use as a form of rebellion. I don't see or know any educated adults that call each other the N word in greeting. Perhaps pointing that out would clarify how it might be something that's "done", but still not something that's acceptable. I know girls that greet each other by calling each other a "B" too, and I find that offensive too.

My cousin was "friends" on myspace with a guy. They were friends but joked around by calling each other wife and husband. She's younger than me and I do keep an eye on her on there. When I went to his page it was the N word over and over. My cousin is a transracial adoptee as well. There was a talk. He's no longer her friend (at least not on there). I hope he can see the light that this offends you, and is degrading toward your son, and that will be enough...even if he thinks it's something that's OK to do.

[katie52]

My husband and I are white, our akids are of different racial mixes. Both of them, teenagers, use the word,but in a different way than we would.

Actually, teens use several words that we, the older generation, see as having certain negative meanings, and they use them as a way of changing or diffusing the
negativity. HO does NOT mean whore, like the way we mean it. It is like a 'jokey' way of girls greeting each other. IT doesnt mean the same way we think, they just like the shock value I suppose. And when they say, Thats GAY, they do NOT mean our definition of gay.
And hey nig, does not mean something offensive. It is a term of endearment. Now if a white guy called my kid a nig, he would be really pissed, unless it was a good friend. Many of their white friends call them that , as a way of putting US down, the older , racist society, that used that term. It is like a private joke among them that we cannot share.

Kids today , maybe because of hip hop culture, and all the NBA stars, think that being black is the absolute coolest thing you can be. So black teens wear that term as a badge of honor, UNLESS IT IS BEING SAID BY WHITE POWER SKINHEADS THAT IS.

I snoop on our kids myspaces all the time. The kids use the term 'pimpin' as the opposite of what we think of it as.
Same with the words mentioned above. I really think that the younger generation is rising above the issues and ugliness that we all associate with those words. Maybe it is a good thing, and a form of progress.

[sbaglio]

I fail to see the logic in saying AAs "reclaim" the word by using it. Though I'm a person of color, I never use the word, and am offended by it. In college, I had many black friends who used it, but I would always cringe when I heard the word being uttered.

If AAs have "reclaimed" the word, why is it so offensive when a CC says it? That is just illogical to me. There's no way anyone can make that word meaningless. Same with the "b" word (how many women throw that around at each other?), or the "f" word (I also have a problem with gay people using that word).

At some deep level, regardless of how many times young AAs say the "n" word to each other, it is very hurtful and wounding. Insulting oneself is the wrong way to salve the wounds caused by that word, IMO.

[katie52]

Being in my 50's, early 50's, I tend to agree with everything you said.

But my teenagers, and their friends, just do not see it that way nor feel it that way. They feel they can 'reclaim' it because they think they can change it's meaning by using it in a different way. And as you said, when your college friends began using it, it made you cringe. Now, after a few years have gone by, fewer young people cringe because they have never really heard it used the old way. Only in books and old films.
In newer films, and in popular music, they are bombarded with its newer hip meaning. I am not saying it is right, I am just saying it is happening that way.
I used to be upset and argue with our kids about it, but they say I am behind the times. what else is new...

And most black kids are not offended if a white friend of theirs says it, a close friend that is, but if someone is saying it in a questionable context, then they would be angry.
my teenager and her friends use the B word ALL the time as a "HELLO" to each other [ well not when they think I can hear them, but I am sneaky.] But again, it does not have the same meaning to them as it does to us. So it does not wound their ears in the same way. They just think it is catchy,
and edgy, not disrespectful. As a matter of fact, teen girls think the B word means ' A girl who is not afraid to stand up for herself, even if it makes some people mad.' So they see it as a good thing to be thought of as a Bword. [ believe me I have had this conversation many times over the years now that our oldest is 20.]

Also, these are good kids, good students, involved in extracurricular activities aNd popular with teachers, parents and kids alike. It is just kind of the way of the world for the younger generation and I do not think we will be able to turn this new vocabulary back around to its old meanings very easily. Maybe that is a good thing
though.

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I fail to see the logic in saying AAs "reclaim" the word by using it. Though I'm a person of color, I never use the word, and am offended by it. In college, I had many black friends who used it, but I would always cringe when I heard the word being uttered.

If AAs have "reclaimed" the word, why is it so offensive when a CC says it? That is just illogical to me. There's no way anyone can make that word meaningless. Same with the "b" word (how many women throw that around at each other?), or the "f" word (I also have a problem with gay people using that word).

At some deep level, regardless of how many times young AAs say the "n" word to each other, it is very hurtful and wounding. Insulting oneself is the wrong way to salve the wounds caused by that word, IMO.
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Fadzi

[ocracoke]

I know that the younger population (okay I am officially old after saying that) is using all kinds of words in a form that they were not meant to be used. It doesn't make it right. It is easy to criticize the kids who are trouble makers for that language. I worked in a juvenile delinquent center for a while and we were all over them for their language. They would try to tell us it was just their culture. It is a culture that they are creating. But we tried to help them acclimate to a society that someday they hopefully will need to fit into. Using the 'N", using "gay", using "ho" and so many others may be acceptable by their peers and common language. It is not acceptable in my book. I did a lot of stupid things as a kid and my parents were on top of it and teaching me the lessons that helped me to better understand what I was really doing instead of just punishing me. I am not a person of color (well I guess white is a color) but my daughter is. And in no way, shape or form will I tolerate her using that language with my knowledge.

Samantha

[Yash]

Originally Posted by sbaglio

I fail to see the logic in saying AAs "reclaim" the word by using it. Though I'm a person of color, I never use the word, and am offended by it. In college, I had many black friends who used it, but I would always cringe when I heard the word being uttered.

If AAs have "reclaimed" the word, why is it so offensive when a CC says it? That is just illogical to me. There's no way anyone can make that word meaningless. Same with the "b" word (how many women throw that around at each other?), or the "f" word (I also have a problem with gay people using that word).

At some deep level, regardless of how many times young AAs say the "n" word to each other, it is very hurtful and wounding. Insulting oneself is the wrong way to salve the wounds caused by that word, IMO.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[JustPeachy]

From what I understand, there is a difference between the "n" word that ends in "er" and the "n" word that ends in an "a". The former is supposedly offensive and the latter not, but more of a greeting among the younger set (and although I don't "get it" myself, I'm not particularly offended by how others want to refer to themselves). I'm not sure how the word is used in the rap lyrics, but either way, if it is part of a song that someone posted on their own facebook, there's really not much you can do about it. It may be offensive to you (and others), but I don't think you can make them remove it. Unfortunately, it's part of popular culture and a lot of people like this kind of music and are not offended by it in the least. The only thing you can do is not allow this in your own home and maybe tell your brother how your feel about his facebook, but what he decides to do is ultimately up to him. If your child hears the "n" word (which he no doubt will at some point) you can explain to your child why it's offensive and inappropriate, you can process how he feels about it, but you won't be able to keep him from hearing it, unfortunately.

[gabyj]

Do you all remember Bill Cosby and, if you've ever read "I'm chocolate, you're vanilla", Dr. Wright's discussion of the use of words like "ho" and the "n" word? Their whole premise is that the new generation of rap music and AA celebrities have a tremendous influence in the self-concept and self-esteem of young AA teens today.

Dr. Wright talks about how 30 years ago groups like the Temptations sang about women being beautiful and lovely and today we hear them being called "ho"s and worse. I don't agree that "ho" does not mean what it used to mean. Listen to those lyrics! If I call my friends "b*%#" I may mean it in a "friendly" way, but it is still rude and denigrating. What would you think of your teenage daughter using the word "b.." to talk about her friends? Girls are doing it today. Does that make it right? Just because our kids today use a word does not make it right.

I am a high school teacher with two AA babies. Any time I hear a student of ANY color using the "n" word or the word "ho" to refer to a girl I stop them and discuss it with them. Once a girl told me: "but they use it in rap music" to which I had to reply: "so if rappers use it it's acceptable?" We can then use that logic to accept many other things you will cringe at accepting! Our job as parents is to teach them better.

AA boys and girls already have to fight for their self-concepts in high school when others tell them not to "act white" because they have good grades or want to go to college. The use of words like "ho" and the "n" word, only perpetuate the cycle of beating AA teens up about their self concept, in my opinion. We are their parents, we don't need to accept something just because everyone else is doing it. I have lots of AA students and their parents who do not accept that word as part of their culture because they think it's disrespectul and that is what I plan on teaching my kids. We ought to teach our children to uplift each other, not to tear each other down.

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now .

[TxMom65]

I sound so old saying this, but I don't like to hear it, I don't care who says it. I've heard my pasty white son say once and I almost had a stroke. He is very NON predjudiced and it shocked me. He was greeting someone and said it is just how they do it.

I don't care what people say, that is just wrong. I have heard it said my whole life and it is meant to degrade. My daughter is CC and I don't even let her spend time around my family that throws that word around.

I'll take my cane and go sit out on the front porch now.

[mondk]

My 11 y.o. CC son just read this over my shoulder and said it is one of the most rascist words he has ever heard and that he would NEVER say it! (I guess my parenting has paid off!)

Our Joshie is biracial and I would be totally offended if anyone ever called him that.

Just my 2 cents...

Blessings, Michelle