[Linny]

Jumping in here for the first time on this thread; and probably the last time as well.....

Dh and I are 'seemingly CC'. We've adopted internationally and domestically. When we lived overseas, we were denied adopting AA/ with any other race babies back in the late '70's....because I was considered too fair complected. (Dh was told his complexion was alright...go figure.) Sooo, the agency allowed us to adopt a Korean and Japanese baby. We were encouraged to adopt any CC baby; but we refused to do so.

We went back to private domestic adoption after adopting and failing adoptions with foster care. Long story. All three of those children were seemingly CC. Those years were horrible and I wouldn't wish them on anyone....anyone.

All three of our domestically adopted babies are AA....by our choosing. We've updated our homestudy in hopes of having another baby; we're a lot older parents....


.....And, we still will not accept a CC baby.

In short, we know our desires and our limits. There are a multitude of reasons we won't accept a CC baby. The bottom line though, is....we feel this isn't right for our family to do, period.

I say ALL of that, in order to say the following:

If the OP isn't comfortable with adopting a full AA baby...that's what they've chosen to do. I don't understand it; but I suspect there is more than one person reading this, who wouldn't understand why dh and I won't adopt a CC baby. Call it racism, call it whatever you want. But the fact is.....that's what we chose---what we desire to do, period.

I don't understand a lot of views people have. I don't know these people except through reading what they've written. Some, I think I know and I choose to relate to them, or I don't. It's all a piece of the puzzle.

But when it comes to adopting a baby/child. Why would I want someone who doesn't feel comfortable adopting a certain child....doing so?

I can talk racism until I'm blue in the face; I can talk about how agencies and society view adopting transracially...etc.....but that doesn't necessarily change how people are going to look at something again.

I've posted these lines soo many times on this site and others...and when I write them, they only solidify my thoughts on this.

I remember I used to be furious about anyone who'd never consider adopting an older child....until we did, and were sorry to have done so. Complete change for me....but I lived in those shoes.
I remember when I used to be furious at anyone who'd not adopt an AA baby. I still don't understand that....but I don't want anyone to adopt an AA baby......who isn't incredibly, undeniably, completely and unashame-ably IN LOVE with any AA baby.

I've read and heard about people who've actually returned their AA baby---because it was too dark; or couples who've abused their AA baby, because they couldn't deal with the child not looking like them.
I've seen and spoken with people who've adopted AA children---mostly through the foster system---...who acted as though their children were second class in their family---because they were AA.....
And I've thought, as I think now.....

WHY did you do this in the first place???? What agency...what person------forced you to act differently than what you really wanted to do?


I don't want any child to be in a home where they're not adored because of their skin tone, KWIM?

Whether I agree with it or not...what IS important...is that I do what I feel I'm supposed to do, period. Let the others deal with their inner feelings....as we do with ours.
It's not for me to force them.

Do I feel they're missing out...missing the point? Sure.
But, I surely don't want them to adopt a child they feel they shouldn't...or couldn't...or wouldn't feel totally and completely in love with.

After all the discussion. After all is said and done......to me, that's the point. Why would anyone want it any other way?

Sincerely,

Linny

[BethanyB]

Linny, don't misunderstand where I am coming from. I would NEVER EVER want someone to adopt an AA child if they did not want to. Far, far from the truth. That is actually my exact point. Being white/black biracial is black. Most times the child looks black. So if you can't bring yourself to adopt an AA child, why would you be able to bring yourself to adopt a biracial child? My opinion is that you shouldn't. But again that is just my opinion.

Speaking for myself here, I was showing my frustration at a situation I hear about too many times and was really hoping to finally understand it one of these day. Yet, I still cannot.

[momtosami]

Fadzi, I agree with you as well. Could you PM me the info on the group you were talking about. This has gotten way out of hand on here.

Everyone has their own opinion and knows what is right for their family. Whether someone is or is not comfortable with adopting a full AA child then that is up to them & what they feel is right for their family and that child. When it comes to belittling or making them feel they are some bad person because they will not adopt a full AA child because of what I see is very important reasons then it needs to stop.

[Vogi2002]

I DO respect a person's decision. But just because I respect it doesn't mean I have to agree with it, and doesn't mean I can't challenge it.

I respect the fact that each family NEEDS to choose what is right for each of themselves, I really do....if you aren't comfortable with transracial then I don't believe a person should, nor feel they are a bad person for not, chossing it. I do believe though that transracial adoption includes biracial. To me, if you are comfortable with one, you would assumingly be comfortable with the other....if you aren't comfortable with either than that is fine!

Heck, my dh wasn't comfortable adopting an AA child at first either....but he wasn't comfortable with either biracial or AA, and he did a lot of soul searching...and had a full 180 change of heart (after admitting some pretty hard things to himself about his personal racism...) So I DOOO understand doing what's right, believe me I do...I just don't get how you can take them (biracial and AA) and make them two? I guess unless you are only comfortable with CC/Hispanic, CC/ Aisan, CC/AA, etc. But to see someone be comfortable with another FULL race (Hispanic for example) but not FULL AA? I just don't understand it....and I guess I don't understand how one can say it has nothing to do with negativity toward AA as a race. That's all. I guess I haven't heard one truley "important" reason as to why you wouldn't choose AA, but would Biracial, and it have nothing to do with AA as a race.

Again, respect doesn't mean you have to agree. Respect doesn't mean we can't challenge the reasons put forth.

[ljsdo2007]

Originally Posted by Vogi2002

I guess I don't understand how one can say it has nothing to do with negativity toward AA as a race.

You should open your mind if you are so tolerant, then, and try to understand that it is possible to have very good reasons for not wanting to adopt full AA but being okay with mixed, and that those reasons have NOTHING to do with feelings of negativity toward the AA race.

It's not about lighter is better. Wouldn't it be easier if it was and you could put us in the nice little "bad" pile you have created in your very closed mind?

This is an extremely complex issue and there are as many ways to go about doing transracial adoption as there are adoptive parents.

[Vogi2002]

I (emphasis) am going to try to keep this respectful. A discussion to get one thinking.

I have talked to about 4 of my very good friends, who happen to be AA. They all had the same conclusions, when I talked about the reasons I had been hearing they were all very confused. NONE of them placed any biasis on a person who simply didn't choose to adopt transracially, they all got that. But the biracial and not full AA confused them, and frankly made them curious as to how a person (not all as thier is particular cases that have good reason, being an interracial couple, etc) can embrace a culture in order to adopt into a race...but not accept it fully.


Reason #1. Community.
- You will face the same racism as you would if you had a full AA child. This is a FACT. If anything you might recieve more. A community that isn't going to accept a full AA child won't accept a biracial child and isn't a community I can or ever will live in.

Reason #2. Sharing your heritage.
- I respect this IF and only IF you are not open to any other "full" race other than your own, including Guatemalan, hispanic, asian, etc. They wouldn't share your heritage either so why are THEY okay? Why is it only important for a child to be 1/2 white if they are mixed with the black race?

Reason #3. Child will connect with the "white part" better (or whatever that reason was).
- False, about as false as you can get IMO. Also, see the reason above's argument. Same applies. To be ready to parent a child of a completely different culture means ready for AA, hispanic, etc.

Reason #4. Your choice.
- I personally believe we have a lot of personal responsibility when having a child of another race (even when in combination with your own race). I believe that you must dive down and find out why full AA makes you uncomfortable. We have to be sure of this, because we owe our future children this. So while I respect a choice that is made, we can't just easily stop there. There is a reason why so many of my AA friends were appalled by this and even more appalled after reading this thread and the reasons.

Reason #5. White birthparents.
- I'm not sure why a black birthparent would make you uncomfortable unless aren't around that many AA people and aren't comfortable around AA people in general. I don't prefer to talk to someone by thier race, and if you adopt transracially I believe you must get past this, because your child NEEDS interaction between AA people so you have to be comfortable with them. I assume that if this were your reason you will accept NO other races unless a white birthparent was involved (so no hispanic, asian, latino, greek, cuban, indian, native american birth parents or full race child) correct?


I don't make people into bad people, you are not a bad person for not choosing to adopt transracially. You are not a bad person for choosing to adopt a biracial child but not AA. I am just challenging your beliefs and your reasons, as they don't add up to me. I am not calling you racist, but many people I believe still have prejuduces toward AA (think about how many MORE people are willing to adopt biracial but not full AA...but are more than willing to go overseas and adopt a baby from a COMPLETELY different culture). As a whole...this shows you that there IS still racism very much alive in the adoption community. I'm not saying you are all racist...I'm talking in general.

Some people are simply called to adopt a biracial child...I get that, but I have not heard anyone say "I am okay with adopting AA child, I was just called to choose biracial...I'm not sure why but I felt that is where God has led me to". Instead I hear reasons that it is best "for the child" which is true if you believe it, but it may also be best not to adopt a biracial child either, because like it or not society (as will the child in ALL of the cases I know) will view them as black. They are BLACK and they are WHITE. They lose NONE of thier "blackness" being biracial.


In the end, and once again, just because I respect your opinion doesn't mean I agree with it.

[Vogi2002]

Originally Posted by ljsdo2007

You should open your mind if you are so tolerant, then, and try to understand that it is possible to have very good reasons for not wanting to adopt full AA but being okay with mixed, and that those reasons have NOTHING to do with feelings of negativity toward the AA race.

Can you tell me some of those reasons then please? Honestly I would love to understand so my heart won't be so heavy for my son.

I haven't heard reasons as of yet*...just people SAYING they have good reasons, so please tell me honestly I WILL listen with an open mind and heart.


*I am talking on this specific thread. I have met a few people on this forum who I have spoken to that have very good reasons, ones made out of love. Yet it is these people who are the nicest ones who don't get defensive...and who understand where we are coming from also.

[HeidiK]

Voogi2002- That is one if the VERY best posts I have ever read on the suject - beautifully writen...I give you a standing ovation

[loveajax]

Vogi, I also think that is a thoughtful post....and very probing.

I have tried to articulate why DH and I made the decision we did years ago (and yes, except for full cauc, we checked the "biracial" box meaning a white birth parent whether there was an asian, latino birthparent, etc.) I understand that people will not agree with our decision, may think we are racist or whatever. I really don't have a problem with that because if you knew DH and me as our friends and family do, it would be laughable. Really. Both DH and I have worked in the black community in our city (that's where we met 15 years ago and DH still works there), have very good black friends and are not "uncomfortable" around black people. (I hate even writing that because I know what it sounds like, but I feel sort of compelled to put that "out there.")

But one "assumption" that keeps bugging me is that a kid who is biracial is going to identify ONLY with being black. Some do, sure. Some don't. My best friend, another friend and my cousin identify themselves as biracial and also value their white parent/relatives. They are not trying to "hide" or minimize being black...how could they? That is essential part of who they are and they are incredibly proud of it. But again I can only speak about the people I know (and even then, I am not in their shoes). And I know that society may only see them as black (I think Obama had a line about what the cab driver "sees" when he hails a cab), but I think every person has the right to define themselves regardless of how society "sees" them.

I recently posted an article about new dialogues on "mixed race" and I am frankly soooo glad for my DD's sake that there are now more and more people who refuse to "label" themselves as society may want to label them. I am hoping that this will be helpful to her as she navigates her way through life.

When we were thinking about adopting, I was really trying to "minimize" what I thought might be tough for an adoptee in TRA....realizing that heck, if they had a white birth parent and had white relatives, etc., we at least could "represent" that. And selfishly I guess I worried about rejection (from the child) and thought maybe we would face "less" of that. I was scared to death about adopting in general because as many of us know, until you have your child, you can have all sorts of fears (and I have a husband who is adopted). That's what I meant when I talked about being more comfortable adopting a kid with a white birth parent. Is it probably a very limited and "uncomplicated" way of looking at things....maybe....but when you are making these kinds of decisions, they are at bottom extremely emotional and personal ones.

The other thing is that the birth parents in a pre-birth match have a CHOICE of who raises their child. Believe me, if DD's birth dad thought that we were racist or trying to "deny" her being black, I don't think we would have been chosen (though frankly maybe he would have preferred an AA adoptive parent, but there were none presented). And I certainly think he would express his concerns now...he's not shy.

I was going to stay out of the fray here (I am sort of "done" being judged here), but I do want to say that if people have made the decision to adopt a biracial child, I certainly wouldn't want them "scared off" for fear of being labeled a racist, a moron or worse. Despite some expression that there is a "fad" sweeping the nation of people wanting to adopt biracial kids, I know from personal experience that sadly this is not true.

I also just wanted to add that there is a study recently published about how well TRA adoptees do (of course, it's just a study and any individual situation may be different). I have to think that at least part of it is that people think long and hard about what works best for their families.

Anyway, I think people are moving on to greener pastures not because of the frank discussion but because of the heavy-duty judgment passed on people whom I sense are really good people (I think I am, for sure!). I value the former but can't tolerate the latter.

[HeidiK]

Another well written post on a very tough subject. Thank you Love, and you made your point very clear. I will always get stuck when dealing with a IMO a flawed system. I don't agree with the check boxes...I think the choice should really be one box---transracial or other than same race...yes or no. Period. But that would never work in a world where "we" feel we need to have control over the choices. A girl can dream

[BethanyB]

Vogi, I too loved your post and totally agree with it.

Here is what I am hearing from some people. We are a big bunch of meanies who want nothing but to make you feel miserable. That we find joy in trying to make you feel like racist and nothing more. That we are judging you.

Why do you think that people like that would set out to do that to perfect strangers?

We keep hearing how it's about the children and you are worried for THEM. Then on the other hand all we hear about are your PERSONAL choices and how you should get to do whatever makes you happy. So which is it?

It can't be both.

ALL of the issues facing this argument have been laid out and yet we have not had anyone not open to full AA take them on and speak on them.

Does anyone want to discuss the reality of the situation and talk about why AA kids are the lowest priced adoptions out there? Does anyone want to talk about why many agencies don't allow people to only choose biracial and not be open to full AA? Does anyone want to discuss how people will adopt FULL HISPANIC kids, FULL ASIAN kids and yet will not adopt a FULL BLACK KID?! Please, please, please...for all of us horrible judging people over here. Inquiring minds want to know.

When you adopt a child, you cannot guarentee that a child will look like you, even if you are the same race. Why don't people who adopt from Guatamala worry about their child not connecting to them because their bio parents are not white? People only ever worry about it when the kid is black.

Watch the news people. Only black men can be shot and killed 50 times by police and not faces charges. Black people are discriminated in the work place and have to work three times as hard to get to the same level as a succesful white man. People with lighter skin are viewed as less dangerous and more approachable in many, many studies.

But from what all of you are saying, adoption is the only part of America where racism does not exist. Okay.

When I told family and friends that I was adopting and that is would most likely be a black child the response was often, "Oh, well why don't you adopt one of those cute little Asian babies."

I had a friend (A FRIEND) comment one day that I would be the minority at a local theme park. When I asked who the majority was I was told, "African Americans - unfortunately"

I went to a party one night with coworkers and one of told me her son put Little People on a Little People bus but took the black child off and said monkeys don't go on buses. Then she laughed her head off in front of a group of other teachers. TEACHERS!!!!

At a school holiday event, my students got to go down and purchase gifts for them and their families. I had a parent who worked there tell a little white girl that she could not buy a little black angel. When I questioned her she looked at me like I was crazy and said, "Well that doll is BLACK."

NONE of these people believe they are racists. None of them. I went into the bathroom and cried at the party where a girl I had known for years made that remark in front of everyone and then laughed. She thought it was funny that her son thought a black doll was a monkey. She wrote me a letter saying how she was not like that and the whole thing. If your not like that, you don't say these things.

So while your calling us a big bunch of meanies and not even confronting the issues, why don't you think of those few examples I gave you of what my kids have to deal with. There are a ton more if you want to PM and hear just how bad it gets.

I totally believe people are trying to distance themselves from even calling their child black. And you can call me whatever judgemental names you want but these are my experiences and my kids mean more than anything in the world to me.

If adoption agencies have the rule that it's the AA/biracial program or nothing there must be a reason right? Well their reasons are the very ones listed here.

It's not about you. Adoption is about the child. And the child's feelings, self esteem and happiness are what is important. That comes before any personal choice in my book.

So please go find that happy place. I think though, that once your child starts experiencing some of this, you may be back. Wanting support for the moments that are not so sunny. And they will come. When you deal with a complex issue such as race, your not always going to get happy sunny answers.

[nickchris]

Now while I believe a Black child can do fine in a well prepared transracial home, of course the base is a good home period, but you get my drift. I am curious about this study, that I keep reading about. What are the specifications, the subjects, where was the research conducted? race of the adoptees (because different races deal with a different aspect of racism) how many children/adoptees over what period of time, and such? the factors for this success? I have already read where, one person posted that Black children do better in a CC home, hopefully I misread that.. lol is this the same study?

[nickchris]

No one, at least I did not say that the child, if they have a white bio-parent should ignore their genetic link to that bio-parent. far from it. It's how much of a convenience is the CC side for the aparent? To me that is a legit question for one ot ponder, for those looking into trans-racial adoption. I see that quite a bit, the biracial child is kept in a separate mode, the aparents hang with like families, with CC or other biracial kids, and such. The Black aspect of the child is kind of an afterthought, or minimized to a book or two. If that is not what you all do, then that description does not fit.
Ajax as a mother to two handsome boys who do look, and are biracial (genotype).. society does, and have labled them, and we prepare them within their age level, and such. Maybe my Black skin adds to how they are viewed, but our children are not with us forever, as much as I would like to protect them.
Be proud of who you are, and how you look, and who you came from, here are the possibilities of what society may say or treat you as. My understanding is, that's what Halle Berry CC mother raised her with. The shock of being treated or shunned as such may be lessened. My niece and nephews know of their Italian roots, no biggie, but they also know about their Black roots, again no biggie, and are comfy in both worlds, because we treat them like gold. I admire how the mom is raising them, no biggie, but in real time.