[Fran27]

Originally Posted by Runyan2002

Awaiting- now I will say this....those who say that the only reason to not adopt AA is because of family/friends not accepting (which I personally think is a big difference than saying it is the community as a whole), be sure you TALK to your family / friends first. Because most of the time, you will be surprised just how accepting people are. BUT if you do talk to them, and they just will not accept them...well...this is one area that I do think - Do you want them around at all then? Do you WANT your other children around them if they are biggoted (which is what that is)? I'm just saying that is this were the ONLY reason...then really it is not that much of a reason. I know with my little sis she was accepted into open arms by my family, and if there was any one who wouldn't have accepted her, well GOOD BYE and we would not have cared one bit.

Again, I'm saying if this were your ONLY reason, and I don't want to discount it either, what is important to some is not so important to others. My dh is why we are not open to AA and it is because he is very concerned about him being able to attach to them as a father. It's not that he thinks badly of AA as a race, not at all...he just doesn't think he will be able to feel like they are his children / he is his father (does that make sense?? maybe not, but I have to be aware and accepting of his feelings).

Natalie

The thing is, everyone is saying that if your family wouldn't be comfortable with a child of another race we should just cut contact with them, but if your dh is not comfortable it's ok not to adopt AA?

Originally Posted by jillned

My DH's parents were not on board with our decision to adopt, let alone adopting AA children. We do not see them except at nieces/nephews bday parties. Even that will be ending because our kids are getting older and we don't want them saying anything hurtful to our kids.

Well, is that always a good thing? And because our parents might not be comfortable with an AA grandchild, does it mean they are racist? Probably not more than a dh who is not comfortable adopting an AA child. And no, they might not say racist comments all the time, they might just not want to talk to the child much because they have problems bonding.

If so, would it be fair for a child to grow up without grandparents, when a CC would never have to suffer from it in any way? Maybe you don't value family so much, or don't get along with your parents so well anyway, but maybe some people do?

It's funny how some people think it wrong to raise a child with grandparents who are not comfortable with another race but it wouldn't be a problem to raise an AA child in a racist area... I wonder what would be worse to the child

[awaitingagirl]

Well Fran, I think if dh is not on board then yes its ok to not adopt AA I really think some it is a preference, some it is due to race issues and some people are just not comfortable for thier own reason not really due to race.

In my little opinion, I think it would be worse w/ family. The area can always be changed (ie. moving), but family is there no matter how "often" they are in your lives. It is something that we are working with as well. I think the older the generation the harder it is for them to accept. And to me, thats ok, BUT thats not going to stop me from having the family I want. God will deal with their issues in His time, not me.

[lisa in venice]

Of course if a spouse is not on board with adopting an AA child that is a VERY good erason not to do it. I did want to address the "Uncompfortable" thing. Does someone being uncomfortable with people of ceratin races make them racist/ In a word yes. Now before folks are upset let me finish. Racisim is not all cross burning and Hitler salutes it is subtile attitudes that in the long run can be just as damaging to our society. Many good people, people I know and like are racist. people I know and love are sexist and homophobic. Just because they are generally good people does not change the fact that they are racists.


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Racism refers to various belief systems maintaining that the essential value of an individual person can be determined according to a perceived or ascribed racial category and that social discrimination by race is therefore justifiable.

The word "racism" itself appeared in the 1930s, both in the English language and in French. Such racial prejudice usually includes the belief that people differ in aptitudes and abilities (such as intelligence, physical prowess, or virtue) according to race.

Most individuals who use the concept of racial categories believe that different races can be placed on a ranked, hierarchical scale. Racism may also be defined as the act of separating groups according to these ascribed race categories. In doing so the term receives the appropriate -ism ending, meaning the practice or act of doing such as described above.

By definition one who practices racism is known as a racist. Since racist became a pejorative term in developed nations during the last quarter of the twentieth century[citation needed], the identification of a group or person as racist is nearly always controversial.

The underlining is mine and these are things I wanted to discuss. If one is open to race with the glaring exeption of one pareticular race for community, familal or whatever reason one should recognize that you have done a catagorization you are participatin in a system that only perpetuates racisim. Further more by immediately eshewing the perjoritive (racist) you are refusing to look at the problem. In other words if there is no problem it doesn't need to be examined, discussed or remedied. Every time someone says "I'm not "prejudiced" (folks never say racist)" and then go on to discribe racist behavior, attitudes and biases they are diminisshing their own responsibility in how racisim in this country is perpetuated. BTW we are all racist.

lisa

[awaitingagirl]

How can you say we are ALL Racist?

[lisa in venice]

Originally Posted by awaitingagirl

How can you say we are ALL Racist?

I think we all make unconsious little judgements about people who are different from ourselves all of the time, some based on experience or lack of experience, some based on stereotypes. I think it that xenophobia is natural in humans and if you add that to complicated racial history in this country can't help but affect how we think sometimes. I argue that unless you are willing to recognize those thoughts, actions and address them things will never get better.

lisa

[awaitingagirl]

"Most individuals who use the concept of racial categories believe that different races can be placed on a ranked, hierarchical scale. Racism may also be defined as the act of separating groups according to these ascribed race categories. In doing so the term receives the appropriate -ism ending, meaning the practice or act of doing such as described above."

With this, I don't believe that race is placed on a scale, I do believe that people as a whole do it, BUT there are different races in society, which is obvious just by looking around you. Therefore we do need to distinguish between all of us. Yes ok, I understand you "ISM" point about us all being racist. However in the terms we are talking about here, it isnt the technical meaning, which Im sure you know.

[awaitingagirl]

I guess all that is important to me is what I am doing with my life and my children. I dont want to get into a debate over this issue because I'm not equipped to do so. I just feel IMO that everyone has their reasons and I'm ok with it. Whether its because they just dont like the race, family doesnt like the race, or dh isnt comfortable with it... Its a matter of choice and its their own to make

[Vogi2002]

I think that there is a HUGE difference between your dh being uncomfortable adopting AA and your family being uncomfortable with it. Your family should have very little say in your decision as far as if you want to adopt AA, they should support you. I don't care HOW you spin it. But with dh, this will be HIS child, if he is uncomfortable then that makes a HUGE difference. Would I completely cut my family out if they are uncomfortable? No, most of the time it is just education. BUT if they say / do rude things...YES. But that is, IMO, the line. I LOVE my family, we are all very close, but if I adopted AA and they were rude about it, good bye. My children/dh family unit is more important. There is a difference between your "immediate" family unit and your "extended" family unit.

Also, my dh is uncomfortable. He has looked into it, really he has, it makes him more uncomfortable. He doesn't feel equipped to raise a child of AA heritage. He doesn't think he will be able to bond with that child. Is this a form of racism? Probably, but in that sense we are all a little racist. I doubt very many AA people would adopt a CC baby (not saying this as a generalization to all, I'm sure there are plenty that would). Anyways, I'm just saying that the fact that he is not sure about it, would make me not do it in a heartbeat. I want him to be 110%, the child DESERVES parents that are 110%....

I hope this makes sense.

Natalie

[tinatyme]

Originally Posted by aspenhall

My Dh has the same issue. In the feeling of "belonging together" but he is more okay with AA than he is with Asian. In his view, they have more european features.

I don't even know what to say to this. They have more european features! What features would that be? What if it is an Asian/AA mix? Is that okay?

Originally Posted by aspenhall

Another point that I don't think has been brought up is, the AA community has a more defined and "set-apart" culture. It is more strict. A hispanic child raised CC would not feel like an outcast with the hispanic, but an AA child raised CC would NOT fit in with the AA community. And I have heard from SEVERAL adults who were AA and adopted into a CC family, that They feel like outsiders in the AA community, and they feel like outsiders inthe CC community, and in short, don't feel as if they have a place that they belong in either group.

How is the AA community "strict" with more defined rules? So it is okay to take a hispanic child and place him out of his culture and assimilate him into CC culture but it is not okay with an AA child because .. .

Not that I'm advocating assimilation in any case. I am a strong advocate for knowing your cultural heritage and understanding where you come from, but I think a lot of the onus for connecting to your heritage is on the child as it grows up (with appropriate opportunities provided by the adoptive parents to access role models, information, etc.)
No one is asking you to be AA if you adopt an AA child. Your care and attention is what your child needs and yes, a little research on your part when they are dealing with issues related to their identity which might come up.

Even in a household with CC parents and CC children (or AA parents and AA children) the parents are not always going to relate to their children or be able to understand what they are going through. Also, sometimes your family will choose not to interact with your family because of your child's issues (mental health issues, sexual orientation, medical issues) and you will have to decide whether you want them in your life. It is just easier with race because you can say up front, look here is an indicator that this child will not fit perfectly with our family and nope we don't want this child, but we will consider this child.

If a placement of a child is not your first choice, then don't take them. You will be setting yourself and your child up for failure because your relationship will have started off poorly. They deserve someone that is waiting with bated breath for them to come and there are those of us out there that are waiting and thrilled to have an AA or biracial or Asian or Hispanic child.

[Fran27]

Originally Posted by Runyan2002

I think that there is a HUGE difference between your dh being uncomfortable adopting AA and your family being uncomfortable with it. Your family should have very little say in your decision as far as if you want to adopt AA, they should support you. I don't care HOW you spin it. But with dh, this will be HIS child, if he is uncomfortable then that makes a HUGE difference. Would I completely cut my family out if they are uncomfortable? No, most of the time it is just education. BUT if they say / do rude things...YES. But that is, IMO, the line. I LOVE my family, we are all very close, but if I adopted AA and they were rude about it, good bye.

That's what I don't get... People respect their dh's opinion but not their family's... I would think that if it would be ok for a husband not to be comfortable with an AA child, it should be ok for grandparents, too. I guess it's just easier to get rid of parents or brothers/sisters/cousins than of husbands though...

I'm exagerating of course, but I have a hard time understanding double standards. And I don't understand why anyone would purposely bring a child in a family knowing that it would break it up... I understand the issue when it's about dating or marrying someone from another race, in this case you bet I would tell my family goodbye if they were not ok with it, but when it comes to adoption it's not like you don't have the choice of races... Not saying a child is less important than a husband, but it's not like you wouldn't like a baby of the same race as much, KWIM?

Anyway, just my take on this... Just to say that I totally disagree about family not being a 'good' reason for being selective in races...

[hotspice58]

First, let me say to all the CC families that have or are going to adopt AA, AA/CC or hispanic babies: Thank you. You're helping kids that need it. You've also come out of your box/comfort zone to do it. When an AA person says you shouldn't be doing it, ask them how many kids they adopted? We can be our own worse enemy. (Yes, I'm AA).

Second: what is "AA" culture? I think Hispanics have more culture than AA's. Blacks have hopping Johns on New Year's Eve, but in reading I see that some CC's celebrate it (greens, black eyed peas and other food on New Year's Eve for health and wealth). Rap music and baggy clothes don't define us. I don't let my 11 yo wear baggy clothes and I question what he listens to. I agree with the comment that extended family should not dictate what race child is adopted. For the DH's that don't think they can bond with an AA child-they need to come out of their box. AA is more than what you see on TV.

IMHO

[JPDakota]

hotspice58 - thank you! The statement someone wrote about AA's having a separate culture got me. Would that be Ice-T's culture, or Condoleezza Rice's, or Donovan McNaab's, or my insurance agent's, or my DD's birth mother? Stereotyping is racism. The thing is, so much racism is institutionalized, so embedded in our society that we hardly notice it if we're not paying attention. Unless, of course, we're on the unhappy side of it. Someone said we're all racists and I think that's true, at least to some extent. There's a German word, Weltanshaung, that means our own unique view of the world based on our personal experiences, where we live, who we associate with, what we read, etc. All of that helps to determine how we conduct ourselves. With each of us with our own world view, I don't know how we'd avoid some form of racism.
Some of you are extremely attached to your extended family. I get that because I am too. I would hate to have had to cut people out based on pronounced racism. I didn't have to cross that bridge, so I can't judge that. Nor can I judge a spouse whose racism would interfere with an AA adoption. Never been in those shoes.
I do believe this, though, what I'm concerned about is the child, and I would hate to see a child brought into a situation where they're not loved for who they are. That would ruin their self-esteem, and that's wrong.
I am prepared to be flamed. :-(

[Fran27]

Originally Posted by JPDakota

Some of you are extremely attached to your extended family. I get that because I am too. I would hate to have had to cut people out based on pronounced racism. I didn't have to cross that bridge, so I can't judge that. Nor can I judge a spouse whose racism would interfere with an AA adoption. Never been in those shoes.
I do believe this, though, what I'm concerned about is the child, and I would hate to see a child brought into a situation where they're not loved for who they are. That would ruin their self-esteem, and that's wrong.
I am prepared to be flamed. :-(

Please... being uncomfortable is NOT being racist. I'm quite sure lots of people would just not be able to handle all the stares, questions and comments (that's my dh's main issues)... HOW is that racist????

I agree with your last statement though. I see way too many people being open to race because 'race doesn't matter' or they want to be matched as soon as possible. I do feel sorry for their children. Nothing worse than growing up in a place/family where the kid feels unwanted just because the parents never actually thought twice about their decision.

[JPDakota]

Well, "uncomfortable" is a nice way to say they aren't welcome because of their race. Racism isn't all about hating, except when blatant. In fact, I had a discussion this weekend with a black friend of mine about this topic. He said the blatant stuff is far easier to deal with than the more polite forms, which makes it more insidious and harder to deal with in his opinion.

[Fran27]

How ironic to talk about lack of tolerance and racism when you're just as intolerant when it comes to people choices

And how sad that some people think more about calling people names and showing everyone how non-racist they are instead of trying to make sure that kids end up in a home where they will be accepted-by everyone.