[bluedaisy]

Someone commented that they didn't like people who were open to black children from abroad but not black children from the US. I don't think this is a far comparison. We didn't chose a black child, we chose a program in Ethiopia. We weren't interested in pursuing domestic adoption, regardless of color. The process simply didn't work best for us.

I did hear from one family member who didn't understand why we wouldn't prefer to adopt an AA child. She has this idea that black children in the US are lined up waiting for parents to swoop them to safety. And she couldn't imagine a case where an Ethiopian orphan would be healthy.

Of course, now that she's met our healthy, happy, charming son, she doesn't seem to feel this way anymore. But that's the issue with racism--people often object to concepts, not individual people.

Erin, thanks for pointing to this thread from your blog.

[DreamingAzure]

Hmmm...I'm reluctant to reply to this thread...but I'll do it anyway lol

I'm one of the PAP who said CC or Asian but not Hispanic or AA. I'll freely admit it. I've decided that domestic adoption is not the way I should go(for numerous reasons), so I jumped feet first into adopting from Vietnam. I never really considered ANY other programs for more then 5 minutes.

I have a real interest in Asian culture(VN culture especially). I have NO interest in Latino/Hispanic or AA cultures. The time I spent in college learning about those cultures left me with a bad taste in my mouth(NOTHING against people of either ethnicity, speaking on CULTURE alone, I have both Hispanic and AA friends) While I LOVED my Asian studies, and had a WONDERFUL Japanese roommate, who inspired me to learn more about Japan and Asia. I can see myself incorporating the culture of Vietnam into my daily life. I can't see the others.

Do I have "color" issues?...possibly but I don't really think so.

I've head people say stupid things in both directions about race/skin tone. I remember hearing a woman(with her hubby standing there) several years ago say how happy they were that their Guate baby was darker in skin tone, just think of all the money she would save on sun screen.(DUH!?!??!) She was dead serious!. Where as another mom in the same room was lamenting that her child was much darker then she had imagined, and she wished they were 'whiter'(again..DUH!?!?!?)

Do I think it's a cop out? No not really. I think honesty is MUCH more important.

[maggie_va]

I actually have a lot of respect for CC families who are willing to admit that they are unable to parent an AA child or a child of any other race. I don't think it makes them racist, I think it makes them honest and spares the child and the family.

What bothers me most are those who are open to any race bc "love is colorblind" or some other trite reason which I normally read as "our agency said we could have a baby in a matter of weeks as opposed to years". I realize that this is not true in every case but I bet it is not as untrue in as many cases as you want it to be.

I always like these qualifiers - "we have friends of such and such race" or "we intend to raise our child with their culture". Its great to have friends of all races but that doesn't always translate into anything.

One question I always think about when I read these threads - what exactly is AA culture in America and how are they teaching it? What do these parents view or think comprise this culture and how do they communicate it to their child?

For me, I can only comment on the way I see it around me and for what passes for AA culture here. For me, for the most part, its something I don't care for ~ the vernacular, the music, the dress code, etc. It’s not something I could encourage. I don't think my culture or lack there of (I am standard white American and I am not sure that's a culture really) is any better or somehow trumps AA culture in any way and I don’t think any of those things associated with the “culture” are bad or make those individuals bad. I just know myself well enough to know that I could never find myself encouraging a child to experience those things. In fact, a close friend said it best when she told me that "OMG, you would end up making the child white!" Yeah, she was being facetious but she was also being truthful. And I wonder if that's what will happen to some or many of the AA children being adopted in this generation. I once heard a comment from a family who had an AA infant in tow “well, it will be ok for her because she isn’t going to be “black” after all she has us as parents”. The implication was clear – they were white and they were expecting society to view their child as white even if in fact she was not. (And I guess they child was going to have to see herself as white also??)

As far as family getting over it, it doesn't alway happen. I have extended family who no longer speak to their biological child bc she has children outside of her race. The kids are teenagers now so no these people are not going to get over it and be accepting.

Maggie

[kidmd2b]

I agree with many of the previous posts in regards to many aspects. Those that think they are unequipt to raise an AA child for any reason, should not do so and we shouldn't label them because it is better they not try to be PC to the detriment of the child they will have in their family for a lifetime.
I agree that it will be just as hard to raise a child of any ethnicity in a CC community. Dh is Filipino and I am CC. We are from CA where Dh lived in CC neighborhoods, went to private CC schools, but held on to his culture and had no problems. I was raised in a multicultural area where CC was the minority in my public schools and I got along fine. When Dh and I moved to KC, MO, it was horrible. He endured racial slurs, was stared at, was not allowed to take communion etc. We moved back to CA after one year. The point is that in some places it doesn't matter how dark you are, if you aren't CC, it is rough. People who are not willing to deal with racism should not adopt any race that is in the minority.
Dh and I are planning to adopt from Ethiopia. We are not discriminating against the children of domestic adoptions, but the process involved in international cases fits our needs better and baseless or not, I fear that domestic adoptions have too many loopholes for overturning.
As to the family questions, it is hard. Everybody starts their comments with, "I am not racist, but.." and I am tired of it. People who ask me, "Why a black baby?" or "Of all the countries in the world, why Ethiopia(in smirky tone, not curious one)?" are showing they are racist and should just keep their thoughts to themselves. Dh's mom says she can't love a non Filipino baby. No surprise, she had a hard time accepting me at first too. It was okay to date a CC, but not marry one. My grandmother, aunt and uncle keep trying to convince us of Mexico adoption or surrogate mothers. When it comes down to it, we tell them that we would take any available child no matter what nationality, however after research our best fit was Ethiopia and for several reasons. They can accept it or not, but it is our baby. If they don't like it, then they will be missing out and it is on them. Is it sad? Of course it is. But, you can't live for other people or with other people's values. Most of all, I am disappointed in people that I thought we could count on. They have a year to get over it/get used to it.
It surprises me that my CC conservative Republican parents are excited and are just short of running around passing out cigars while my inlaws who have experienced racism are the ones that don't want us to adopt "a black."
Cindy C.

[wishing4more]

Respectfully...

Do you want your child, regardless of their race, to be exposed to a family member who is racist?

Do you want your child, again regardless of their race, to be raised in a school and community with little or no racial and cultural diversity?

Do you really think that being an AA child in a CC household is any different then being a hispanic, asian, or Native american child in a CC household?

IMO, transracial adoption is not for everyone. If a CC couple want a CC child, that I understand. It's when a CC family will accept only certain combinations of races when becoming a transracial family, I wonder if they are really prepared for all that it means to become a multiracial family.

So to answer the OP, I think that it is about race and racism.

[adoptethiopiablog]

I also agree that it is unfair to judge families who choose Ethiopia over US adoptions. In our case, we attempted a US adoption of a black newborn. We waited most of a year fora birthmom to choose us, despite the fact that other families from our agency were being matched within 3 months or so. Finally a birth mom chose us. We talked on the phone off and on for a month before the baby was born. When she went into labor she requested that I come, and so I flew across the country 3 days before Christmas to be with her. Within an hour of the baby's birth she changed her mind. I spend Christmas eve away from my family, unable to get a flight back home till Christmas Day. After that fiasco, my husband and I became pretty disullusioned with the US system, and were more than happy to switch to Ethiopia. The US system works great for some people. but for us Ethiopia turned out to be a much better choice.

The way I look at it, there are kids in need all over the world-- I think it is awesome that different people are drawn different directions.

[mommmmy]

Originally Posted by wishing4more

Respectfully...
It's when a CC family will accept only certain combinations of races when becoming a transracial family, I wonder if they are really prepared for all that it means to become a multiracial family.

So to answer the OP, I think that it is about race and racism.

EXACTLY!

And to clarify...in my post I said "I think" I don't think it's really necessary for someone else to point out that my post is my opinion. I would think that anyone on a message board would realize that things that are stated are indeed that person's opinion. For those taking offense to my post or feeling like they were attacked...you may want to go read it again. There was no attack made. Maybe you are reading in some sort of inflection that was not there. I realize I brought up points that some may be sensitive to...but isn't that a given with the topic we are discussing?

When I brought up the point about it makes me wonder why someone would choose that husband, place to live, etc. Come on - these things don't just appear with adoption. I realize that adoption often will bring people's private thoughts out into the public. But being in an intimate relationship with someone...I would think you would have a pretty good idea of how they feel about racial issues.

Another question comes up for me in this area...so if you are raising CC children...would you not want to make their environment culturally diverse? And why would it be "ok" for the CC children to be around those who are family members or friends that are racist and make comments? Don't you think that will effect them?

As far as the feel for the need to defend the choices to go with International. I'm sorry that anyone felt the need to defend this. This was not at all what I was saying. I was referring to those (who I have come across in other areas) who ARE open to adopting black children from other countries but IF they were doing domestic adoption would NOT be. I don't understand this mentality. But I was not talking about the point of choosing International instead of Domestic adoption in general. That's a very different discussion. I realize there are those who take issue with adopting internationally rather than domestically - that is not at all what I was referring to.

[CashCrew]

I have little knowledge on this subject because I grew up in an all CC family in a predominately cc neighborhood, but we are in the process of adopting a transracial baby. This is just speculation because I've never gone though this, but when people say things like "how would it feel never seeing people 'like' it" I wonder exactly what they mean by that. Even all CCs are vastly different...pale skin, dark skin, red hair, black hair yet we are cultured don't "notice" that. I hope to raise my child to only look at the inside of a person just as I have my biological children. They truly never even consciously notice different races. Of course they see that everyone is different, but they don't see it as one race verses another. They just see that ALL of God's people are different and there's no race attached to difference. I know this isn't the norm for our society, but as far as empowering the transracial child within our family, I think it will help tremendously. JMHO as I have not experience it first hand yet. This is just what I'm basing my decision to adopt transracially on.

[shycharlie]

Hi,
New to adoption and wondering what CC and AA stand for.

Thanx!

[DreamingAzure]

AA stands for African American and CC stands for Caucasian. There is a great link in the top middle bar(the tan/khaki one) that says "Acronyms" it has all of the abbrvs. and adoption lingo you will see around here

[Vogi2002]

Originally Posted by CashCrew

I have little knowledge on this subject because I grew up in an all CC family in a predominately cc neighborhood, but we are in the process of adopting a transracial baby. This is just speculation because I've never gone though this, but when people say things like "how would it feel never seeing people 'like' it" I wonder exactly what they mean by that. Even all CCs are vastly different...pale skin, dark skin, red hair, black hair yet we are cultured don't "notice" that. I hope to raise my child to only look at the inside of a person just as I have my biological children. They truly never even consciously notice different races. Of course they see that everyone is different, but they don't see it as one race verses another. They just see that ALL of God's people are different and there's no race attached to difference. I know this isn't the norm for our society, but as far as empowering the transracial child within our family, I think it will help tremendously. JMHO as I have not experience it first hand yet. This is just what I'm basing my decision to adopt transracially on.

I agree that this thinking is the best for the child, but IMO it is not realistic. Realistically, the child WILL notice they are different, more so than other CC differences. Not only that, but other children will notice and ask about it. I know that if I was the only white child growing up I would have felt very alone, not saying that ALL children feel this way, but it's hard enough going through puberty much less feeling like an outsider....Now, again, I'm not saying that every child will feel this way but Racism DOES happen and, IMO, I think it's better to celebrate differences than pretend there are none.....not saying this is what you were implying at all...

I feel the same about people that think that they will not be hit with racism...for most people in this world you WILL see this...some worse than others, but you cannot shield your child unfortunately, instead you can give them the confidence and education to know when to stand up for themselves, when to ignore, and when to simply smile and walk away...

[nickchris]

This is a very interesting thread to say the least. Folks are really honest here, adopting a child appears to put us in a honest/self probing mode, than even having a child biologically . As I have said before if a CC person is not comfortable with adopting an AA child and the complexicities that come with it, then do not do it.
However some of the comments kind of rubs me the wrong way, black and hispanic culture leaves a bad taste in your mouth? Regarding AA culture as only big clothes and poor speech; it is only based on all the negative aspects, and these AA kids would end up white if you take these things away? (considering the AA I see everyday; big misconception there) The history that I have read/studied about other race/cultures has/had good and bad aspects as well. Overall, be honest and just say that you do not feel comfortable adopting a A,. B, or C child, but do not romanticize the reasons.
I am really not getting this: as for the other races ie; Asian, Hispanic, I do not see where these children and their different cultures are the same as CC, yet folks are more comfortable with them, is it the straigther hair, the generalizations of so and so is smarter, or the romantasizing sp? of the culture and their plights? The same with biracial children, do we just want to see something that is familiar to us?

[mommamarci]

Originally Posted by nickchris

However some of the comments kind of rubs me the wrong way, black and hispanic culture leaves a bad taste in your mouth? Regarding AA culture as only big clothes and poor speech; it is only based on all the negative aspects, and these AA kids would end up white if you take these things away? (considering the AA I see everyday; big misconception there) The history that I have read/studied about other race/cultures has/had good and bad aspects as well. Overall, be honest and just say that you do not feel comfortable adopting a A,. B, or C child, but do not romanticize the reasons.
I am really not getting this: as for the other races ie; Asian, Hispanic, I do not see where these children and their different cultures are the same as CC, yet folks are more comfortable with them, is it the straigther hair, the generalizations of so and so is smarter, or the romantasizing sp? of the culture and their plights? The same with biracial children, do we just want to see something that is familiar to us?

Nickchris- I totally agree with you. Dh and I are CC. When we were trying to decide, I considered cutlural differences. To me it seems it would be easier to learn and teach culture to an AA child that was born in the US. We celebrate the same holidays (for the most part, depdending on religion and such). We eat a lot of the same foods, watch the same TV shows, etc. Because we live in the same country!!!!!!! However, if I were to adopt a child that was born in a different country, I would have to learn everything: food, holidays, clothing, music, etc. (I do want to say I would be willing to learn all of this for my child.) Unless you already have a connection with that culture, it does not make sense to me that it would be easier to teach a child about an Asian culture, etc.

It also rubbed me the wrong way that AA culture is all about baggy clothing and poor speech. I think that is the culture displayed by the media, but the AA people I know do not dress any differently than dh and I do and speak just like we do. I also know plenty of young CC men / boys who wear very baggy clothing.

[DreamingAzure]

Originally Posted by nickchris

However some of the comments kind of rubs me the wrong way, black and hispanic culture leaves a bad taste in your mouth? Regarding AA culture as only big clothes and poor speech; it is only based on all the negative aspects, and these AA kids would end up white if you take these things away? (considering the AA I see everyday; big misconception there) The history that I have read/studied about other race/cultures has/had good and bad aspects as well. Overall, be honest and just say that you do not feel comfortable adopting a A,. B, or C child, but do not romanticize the reasons.
I am really not getting this: as for the other races ie; Asian, Hispanic, I do not see where these children and their different cultures are the same as CC, yet folks are more comfortable with them, is it the straigther hair, the generalizations of so and so is smarter, or the romantasizing sp? of the culture and their plights?

Actually I said "The time I spent in college learning about those cultures left me with a bad taste in my mouth". And that is very true(FOR ME) I had, what I consider to be, racist professors and I walked away from my cultural courses hoping and praying I never had to take another set of classes like that again. Adoption was discussed as a small part of all my classes, and I heard the same thing from ALL of the professors, if you will not raise a child with FULL exposure to their own culture then you shouldn't adopt. That you HAVE to expose an AA child to HipHop, Rap, Ebonics etc. for them to be a fully functional AA adult. Based on my experiences in those classes I don't think I could raise a child in those cultures.

I don't think I have romanticized asian culture or the plight...I simply feel a conection to it that I do NOT feel with AA or His/Latino cultures. I've spent most of my adult life working with children of all races and I KNOW that ALL children are smart and capable of learning. I would be happy to explain in detail, but I find that is usually more info than most people want to read.

[nickchris]

I was not trying to quote, just breaking it down as I read and understood the statements. Okay let me see if I got this straight, are you saying that you were turned off from considering adopting AA and Hispanics..because while studying history the professors said that exposure to rap and hip hop etc; is necessary to expose AA to all of their culture? then I appreciate the full explanation. Would such teachings turn me off? no (I heard a lot of erroneous info. from professors/teachers) AA are not comprised of just rap, poor speech, baggy clothes, etc; It would be hard for me now a days to think that is all AA have contributed to our society, plenty of well read, spoken honest, conservative dressing AA out there, probally sitting or living right next to us all. In addition, not all hispanics/latinos are the same. Not all Irish, Italian, etc are the same either, and IMHO I would not let such theories sway me. As I said before, I believe that every race has good and bad aspects among them. Thank you for the additional information, just wanted to clarify as I hate placing folks in boxes as well.