[sneezyone]

OMG, could you misunderstand me any more?

"But what I do get is that you as a black person feel that MY children would be better off without me. Even though you didn't personalize it by saying bethanyb's kids. You are pointing out how you feel about a certain situation of which I happen to be in with my children. So it is personal."

I feel, as a person, that the best option for any child is their family of birth, but if for whatver reason that can't happen, I think every effort should be made to place them with same-race adoptive parents before looking to transracial ones because of the potential loss of group identity/esteem, not self-esteem.

edited to add...Kids can and do grow up to be perfectly happy in transracial homes. But Shoshana hit it on the head, they have to work a lot harder to build that sense of group identity and some are more successful at it than others. Heck, some don't even try because it can be such a painful process and/or because they've adopted the view that it's unimportant, and that is sad.

I absolutely don't feel that your children, or anyone's children would be better off without them. Please don't put words in my mouth. My comments refer to prospective (as in future) placements not undoing the past.

[Jensboys]

There is a part of me that thinks that if we say we are our kids "first choice" then that demeans our children's birthparents to simply "breeders" of children for us, the "better parents". Am I misinterpreting your point of view, or is that how you really feel?

I mean, I KNOW that it wasnt ideal for my kids with their birthfamilies - they were abused, neglected and the rest. But it doesnt change the fact that IF their bfamily had been functional, that they would have been the BEST place for my boys to be raised - even if I do offer them "more". I certainly am not having my boys in order that I can donate them to a more worth (educated/rich/nicer) family down the road because they would end up loving them???

I just dont get that part of it.

[Sleeplvr]

There are certain aspects of our children that we can’t address like a birth family member can. Because I met bmom I can say that DD looks like her but I can’t tell much about her personality. I can’t explain to DD where she got the gap in her front teeth. Bmom didn’t have one, did it come from bfather? I feel especially challenged because I know nothing, not even the race of her bfather. I can’t be the best situation if I don’t know these things. These are basic things that birth family can provide. All I can do is be the best that I can and hope that is enough.

Some of you are taking this as personal insults. When I first started out with adoption I felt the same way. “How dare they say I’m second best?” But I came to understand that I’m not the best even in same race placements. You can’t take it as something against you or it will tie you up in knots. I really struggled with being 2nd or 3rd best option but then I realized I was the best available option.

[Sleeplvr]

Originally Posted by Jensboys

There is a part of me that thinks that if we say we are our kids "first choice" then that demeans our children's birthparents to simply "breeders" of children for us, the "better parents". Am I misinterpreting your point of view, or is that how you really feel?

This is the exact reason I got it and why I'm okay with being down on the list. It wasn't pretty when I heard it but I got it.

[redhedded]

I haven't read a single person say they believe they are the first best choice for their children. I, in addition to saying that my children's first mother, was the best choice, by far, for them, do not believe in fate/destiny. I do not, for a minute, believe that my children belonged with me; I believe that human decisions, of all kinds, result in outcomes. In a just and fair world, they belonged and would have remained with the one to whom they were born.

What I vehemently reject is the notion that I am third best because of my skin color.

[sneezyone]

Originally Posted by Sleeplvr

But I came to understand that I’m not the best even in same race placements.

So true, I'm quite sure I leave much to be desired on many fronts. It's kinda funny b/c dd's bmom was concerned I wasn't black enough. She was totally reassured by DH tho that dd would learn the difference between a collard green and a weed. LOL!

[BethanyB]

I think the issues get confused because the only comparison folks want to see is a child in a dysfunctional bfamily or foster family vs. a healthy transracial one and that's just not the only choice, particularly in infant placements.

Sneezy,
I got so carried away that I forgot about commenting on this part of your post!


The reason that most of us are using the example of foster care or dysfunctional family because that is where many of us are coming from. My kids came from foster care. Their bmom had her rights terminated. She had many problems which I will not discuss here but if they were to have been raised with her they would have been put in danger.

And here in NJ, there are MANY black children waiting for homes. And infants at that! So yes, there are young black children who bounce around in the foster care system. My son's half sister came into care as a gorgeous newborn baby. She had NO issues! She bounced around from foster home to foster home due to no fault of her own. She even ended up being abused in foster care. She had her legs broken. Then she became a toddler in foster care. And toddlers are even harder to place than infants! I got my newborn son from foster care FOUR days after I was certified. And he was just two weeks old. There are many black infants waiting for homes in NJ.

We are not talking about children being taken from totally healthy capable black families because then we wouldn't be talking about adoption. Yes, I believe that there are capable, loving, caring black families out there who would provide great homes for black children. That to me is a no brainer. But there are many states with a lack of black families for black children. And it is actually against the law to discriminate against a family due to race in a placement situation.

I think that a loving black family would have been just as good for my black children as a loving CC family. But they came to ME. So I am their mommy now. And I feel I am a super mommy. Just as you would have been a super mommy if you had gotten the call for them. But I'm sorry, I just don't understand the second best theory and I guess I never will.
But as always...we can agree to disagree!

[Casey677]

This post has been here and there and everywhere. Just when I thought it was starting to get better, it went down hill again.

I understand that there is loss. I understand that I am not AA and that I need to work very hard to make sure that I expose Hanna to her AA heritage. So far, I have tried out numerous playgroups until I found one where she was not the only AA kid. I make a huge effort to hang out with our AA friends more often than we used to (we are homebodies). I am doing the best that I can.

Hanna's bmom is CC. There were two possibly bdads- 1 CC and 1 AA. We didn't know until she was born what race she would be. What should her bmom have done? Should she have picked 2 couples- 1 CC and 1 AA? Would each of us had to wait in the wings until she was born and race was known?? Reality is not always ideal. Her bmom chose us. She knew we would love her if she was CC or if she was AA.....

[Jensboys]

I asked her if she felt that every child would be better off with their birth family.

This is where I got that point of view.

[sneezyone]

Originally Posted by BethanyB

Sneezy,
And here in NJ, there are MANY black children waiting for homes. And infants at that! So yes, there are young black children who bounce around in the foster care system.

I'm not discounting this. But has it ever occured to anyone to wonder why that is? Perhaps NJ does a poor job of networking with other states and/or within minority communities. Perhaps the population of minority families in NJ is low (although I can't imagine that to be the case). I think it's important not to just look at the system as it is but ask tough questions about the institutional barriers that may prevent say, a puerto rican child from being placed in a spanish-speaking PR household.

Originally Posted by BethanyB

We are not talking about children being taken from totally healthy capable black families because then we wouldn't be talking about adoption.

OK, I know you didn't mean for it to sound this way. But Whaaa?? My daughter's bfamily was and is perfectly healthy. She wasn't taken, she was placed, and this too is adoption.

Originally Posted by BethanyB

Yes, I believe that there are capable, loving, caring black families out there who would provide great homes for black children. That to me is a no brainer. But there are many states with a lack of black families for black children. And it is actually against the law to discriminate against a family due to race in a placement situation.

I agree, there are many states that lack families of color. Not just black families, but latin families, carribean families, asian families, etc. And I absolutely fault those states for not making outreach to communities of color a high priority. When states and agencies actually make an effort, it works! Yes, I know it's illegal to discriminate in foster-placements. That's why it is even more crucial that states make it a priority to do outreach.

Originally Posted by BethanyB

I think that a loving black family would have been just as good for my black children as a loving CC family. But they came to ME. So I am their mommy now. And I feel I am a super mommy. Just as you would have been a super mommy if you had gotten the call for them. But I'm sorry, I just don't understand the second best theory and I guess I never will.
But as always...we can agree to disagree!

Agreed.

[sneezyone]

Originally Posted by Casey677

Hanna's bmom is CC. There were two possibly bdads- 1 CC and 1 AA. We didn't know until she was born what race she would be. What should her bmom have done? Should she have picked 2 couples- 1 CC and 1 AA? Would each of us had to wait in the wings until she was born and race was known?? Reality is not always ideal. Her bmom chose us. She knew we would love her if she was CC or if she was AA.....

Casey, I'm not propposing tht there should be hard and fast rules. Every situation is different and none are ideal. If I prefer a job that pays me 200K a year, does that mean I won't be happy with one that pays 80K? No. I prefer that children be placed in same race homes, but I know that isn't always possible or even desireable so I'm happy to see them placed in loving, healthy homes regardless of the race of the aparents.

[Sleeplvr]

Originally Posted by Casey677

Hanna's bmom is CC. There were two possibly bdads- 1 CC and 1 AA. We didn't know until she was born what race she would be. What should her bmom have done? Should she have picked 2 couples- 1 CC and 1 AA? Would each of us had to wait in the wings until she was born and race was known?? Reality is not always ideal. Her bmom chose us. She knew we would love her if she was CC or if she was AA.....

Now I could take that as an insult because it implies that an AA family could not love a CC child.

We were matched for a few days with a baby that was already born who was supposed to be biracial. After the match things got kind of crazy because for some reason our race became an issue (not with bmom, she selected us) and they started questioning the baby's race. They did not want to risk placing a CC child in an AA home. We were going to take that child and would have provided a pretty good home because we already have everything in place for any race child. We finally did get picture of him and he was obiviously biracial but on the pale side. The agency chose to look for a CC family.

Things are not fair.

[BethanyB]

OMG, could you misunderstand me any more?

Sneezy, I sure wasn't trying to put words into your mouth. I know that you are not for trying to take black children from their current transracial families.

But admittedly you are saying that black children should be with black parents. So you must feel that my children should have been with parents other than myself. Because you think we can't possibly give them what they need. Therefore the usage of second best choice.

I don't find it hard at all to incorporate AA culture into our lives. We live in a diverse neighborhood. White people are actually the minority where we live now. Everyone is supportive. I have people offering to braid hair and so much more. I am a teacher who has always incorporated black history into the first grade curriculum even though it is not required. Therefore I know a lot about history. I have also taught at an all black charter school in an urban area and have talked indepth to people of color about current race relationtions My family is made up of different races. I have black cousins who come over and play with my children. I am not nervous or scared at all about helping my kids to feel like they identify with other black people.

I know you have said that transracial adoptions can be very successful. But the whole second best thing really turns me off.

There is a part of me that thinks that if we say we are our kids "first choice" then that demeans our children's birthparents to simply "breeders" of children for us, the "better parents". Am I misinterpreting your point of view, or is that how you really feel?

Jensboys, I'm not sure if this quote was addressed to me but I will answer. I never said I was my kids first choice. Our kids don't get a choice. My kids were both two weeks old at placement. I said that I will never be a second rate mom. I don't feel I am second best at parenting my kids. The term sounds so negative to me. As I said before, I would never tell anyone that they are second best at anything. So why would I tell myself that?

During this discussion I was thinking about the real world. In the real world, if my kids would have been left with their bmom they very well may have been living on the streets right now if not worse. That is the reality. If I didn't adopt them they either would have stayed in foster care or they would have been adopted by someone else. Who I'm sure would have provided them with a great home. But they came to me and that is the reality of it. (Lucky me! )

Now if we are talking about an imaginary world where everything goes wonderfully and everyone is healthy and happy...then I guess it would be great for everyone who gave birth to a child to raise that child.
But we would have to keep going by saying that in this perfect world, all infertile people would no longer be infertile and could give birth themselves. AND people like me who have cronic diseases would be healthy and could become pregnant without risk to our lives. AND to go even farther, all races would be treated equally and live in harmony. Racism would no longer exist. Hey I love this world and if this is what you mean than I agree.

But in my posts I was referring to the reality of my life and the lives of my kids and where they came from. What they were exposed to as infants and what their lives would have been like if they were left with their bmom. The outcome would have been bad. That is where I am coming from. That is our reality.
So I never said I was my child's first choice. I said that I am a great mommy to my kids. And I won't walk around thinking I'm second best. That is just crazy to me.

[Casey677]

I am not trying to insult anyone. And I wasn't trying to imply that an AA family wouldn't love a CC baby. When I said that her bmom knew we would love her regardless, I meant just that- and I know it was important to her because she quized me on it repeatedly. I think that this is just a very emotional topic for all of us and we are all seeing slights where they weren't intended. Ok, I'm off to lay my beautiful little girl who fell asleep curled up beside me down for her afternoon nap. While I am doing that I am going to think about how much joy she has brought to my life and not focus on all the negativity that is running through my head.

[Kelli]

Originally Posted by BethanyB

What I don't understand is how you get that I am saying that black parents are not as good as I am. I never said that at all.

Just wanted to jump in here and share my quick thoughts on this. Bethany, (you know I have great respect for you ,) and I have NO doubt that you are a wonderful and loving mother and I do believe that your children are where they are supposed to be. And yes, ALL children deserve loving homes whether those homes are black, white, or purple. With that said, I think it feels to some of us that it is being insinuated (though not directly stated) that black parents would not be as good for your children because you (not you in the singular or directly) are not acknowledging the validity of the black family and experience and what it might mean to your children. There are differences that I don't believe can be duplicated. Not to say that other experiences are not also important or equal.

I want to elaborate more but I'm being called into a meeting. Just wanted to put that out there before the question and my attempt at a response got too buried.