[BeckyS]

You're right Bethany. The interviewees from the book were adopted early 70's and most were raised by Dutch families, in Dutch communities.

[Nevada Jen]

I feel like I have to say something.

This thread is very upsetting and sometimes insulting to me as a cc mom to an AA child. (And I am obviously not the only one who is upset by it) I am trying to place my finger on what is so upsetting. I think its 2 things. There is a different between theoretical and personal. People who are saying transracial adoption is second choice (at best) are insulting me and threatening my family on a personal level. I am my kid's mom. No one is a better choice than me. I read these posts and think "LisaCA can't have my kid just because she's the black version of me." (Just my example).

The other thing that is a little upsetting to me is that these comments are coming from people on these boards who I respect who I thought probably felt the same about me (or at least never gave me much thought). All of a sudden it feels as if there are a large group of people who think I am, at best, a stand-in for what my child should have had -- Not because I am an adoptive mom but because I am a white mom to a black child.

I knew these theories where out there when I adopted and don't think they are totally off base in theory. But in real life, when you are talking about MY real live black kid, it is simply hurtful.

There are more black kids that need homes than there are black adults to parent them. That leaves the rest of the non black world. Its helpful to us non black people to hear HOW to expose them to the "culture" its not helpful to hear (after we have already adopted) that we are not the best parents for our child.

Phew! I feel better!

Jen

[Sleeplvr]

In theory we all are second best because we are not the birth family. People get their panties in a bunch when race is listed as an additional reason.

I'm AA as well as my kids and I am 2nd or 3rd best or even more down the line if they had a functional bfamily. It doesn't take anything away from me. That's the point. You are taking it as a slam but that's not what it's about.

[Jensboys]

Jen, I disagree with that ... only because I fully realize that my kids lives would have been easier if their first parents had been capable of parenting them. Adoption, by default, means I am not the "best choice" for my kids - best choice in a perfect world is that kids stay with the people that give birth to them.

However when it comes to race, to agknowledge that my kids HAVE lost something by being raised in a multiracial family (and yes, gained something as well but that doesnt erase the loss) makes me AWARE. And if I am AWARE I advocate for my kids all the more. I see the descrimination my kids, and family, will have to face. I fight it. I WORK so that my kids will have the knowledge and experiences they would have had, had they been raised by aa parents, or their aa birth family, if it was functional.

Its not a slight against ME or OUR family, because I am doing the best I can to rectify the situation. I am not insulted that I am not going to know what it is like to live as an AA person in North American BECAUSE I AM NOT AN AA PERSON. It would be completely undermining of the seriousness of the minority experience for me to simply say "well I read a book, I GET IT" 'cause you know what - I never full CAN.

So I foster relationships between my boys and same race families. I move. I switch churches. I find mentors for my kids. I address racsim when I see it. I get that I will NEVER fully understand their experience. That doesnt mean they love me any less, that doesnt mean I love them any less - its just means that I accept their reality.

My KIDS have to go through life as adoptees. As minority people. As minority people with parents that are of a different race.

To deny their reality that those might be issues to them, then I fail to be the BEST mother I can be to them. I dont consider that in insult - I consider it an encouragement from the aa community to get OFF MY BUTT and do the best I can for my kids.

What's done is done. We ARE a family. They ARE my kids. I AM their mother. Now I get to work being the best I can be for THEM ...

Jen

[sneezyone]

Bethany, Jen, & others... I certainly don't think anyone wants to reach out and snatch children away from homes just so they can be placed in same-race ones - or say that you're not a great mom to your kids. I think the issues get confused because the only comparison folks want to see is a child in a dysfunctional bfamily or foster family vs. a healthy transracial one and that's just not the only choice, particularly in infant placements.

Just as some are offended by the notion of being second best, I'm struggling not to be offended that some people don't believe minority families can be first-best. The implication is that a same-race family is incapable of being healthy or offering a child all that a cc can/does. That's sort of the way it comes off; that's the undercurrent that I feel. Yes, cc families are chosen by bmoms for their minority children, but we may never know what their preferences would be if presented with the same variety of same-race families that they get with cc families.

What we do know is that agencies who purposefully do minority outreach manage to place their children and/or match pbmoms with same race families at rates far higher than non-specializing agencies because they make it a priority.

I guess I've always suspected that cc folks (in general) don't place the same value on group identity that minority people (in general) do. That is, in part b/c cc people are seen as individuals first and members of a group second. But I think that difference is laid bare by this discussion and is a prime example of what some children (not necessarily your children) lose in transracial adoption.

Edited to add...I didn't open this pandora's box with the intent of offending anyone. I totally respect what each of you are doing to parent your children.

In any case, there are several books that have been written in the last decade...I pulled a few from the Web site of John Raible. There are also a bunch of great articles here for folks to peruse. http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jraible/Links.html
http://www.nysccc.org/T-Rarts/T-Rarts.html

Adams, Marie. Our Son, A Stranger: Adoption Breakdown and Its Effects on Parents. Montreal and Kingston: McGill-Queen's University Press, 2002.

Eldridge, Sherrie. Twenty Things Adopted Kids Wish Their Adoptive Parents Knew, Dell Publishing, 1999.

Fogg-Davis, Hawley. The Ethics of Transracial Adoption, Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 2002.

Koenig, Mary Ann (essays) and Niki Berg (photography). Sacred Connections: Stories About Adoption, Running Press, 2000.

Melosh, Barbara. Strangers and Kin: The American Way of Adoption. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2002.

New York State Citizens' Coalition for Children, Struggle For Identity: Issues in Transracial Adoption, PhotoSynthesis Productions, Ithaca, NY, 1998.

Patton, Sandra. BirthMarks: Transracial Adoption in Contemporary America, New York University Press, 2000.

Pertman, Adam. Adoption Nation: How the Adoption Revolution is Transforming America, New York: Basic Books, 2000.

Raible, John & Sonia Nieto."Beyond Categories: The Complex Identities of Adolescents" in Adolescents At School: Perspectives on Youth, Identity, and Education by Michael Sadowski (Harvard Education Press,) 2003.

Simon, Rita J. and Rhonda M. Roorda. In Their Own Voices: Transracial Adoptees Tell Their Stories, Columbia University Press, 2000.

Steinberg, Gail and Beth Hall. Inside Transracial Adoption, Perspectives Press, 2000.

[Shoshana]

I know that no one loves my daughter in the way that I do. Do I love her best? Maybe. If fate had been different, could another mother, a Latino woman, have loved her best? I have no doubt.

Sneezy, I think you said something important about 'group identity.' Granted, I don't have the group identity as a white person, even as a white woman, but I have experienced its importance in other ways. One example that I'll talk about here is that I am an adoptee - that fact has set me apart and made me different from my non-adopted peers, to varying levels of intensity at different points in my life.

An aside -- I have many close friends of different races. When I am the only, or one of a few white face in a crowd of native-born Americans of color, I notice, but it doesn't make me uncomfortable. When I am the only English-speaking person in, say, an hispanic neighborhood or grocery store, I feel like an imposter, like I am almost intruding. There is nothing I can do to "fit in" -- knowledge, friendships, desire notwithstanding, I am an outsider. In addition to the discomfort engendered by these situations, I also experience a longing and a sadness. From having this experience, I can imagine what it might feel like for my daughter to be in a similar situation. No matter how hard I try to integrate Latino culture into our lives, no matter the importance I place on her learning Spanish, by virtue of the fact that **I** am her mother, she may very likely feel like she is a visitor to those environments, maybe even an imposter.

So she's lost the culture of her birth, her first family, and the possibility of truly (authentically?) realizing that very significant aspect of her identity. There's no way I could ever consider the life I can provide to her as the first choice.

[Bellemom]

You know, this thread made me think and I am greatful for that. My children's nanny and I had a long conversation about this thread yesterday during nap time, (as she was teaching me to braid ). I am white, my husband is "seamingly" white, although he is also NA. My kids are biracial (adopted from foster care). She is biracial, her boyfriend is biracial, her child is biracial and most of her friends are biracial. She is younger than me and made some good points.

Society is changing. The generation coming up is made up of adopted people, mixed race families, racially diverse social groups, homosexual and lesbian parents, split families, people with many half siblings they don't live with, grandparents raising children.... and it's all normal (and GOOD) to them. A typical family with two parents (male/female) and biological children is becoming not the norm. I think this shift scares a lot of people, but I think it shows how society is constantly adjusting and changing. I, for one, will embrace those changes and expose my children to families of every kind.

My adopted children are biological half siblings, yet they look nothing like each other. In fact most people don't believe me when I tell them because they "look" like different races. We are a unique family, but aren't they all???

[sneezyone]

Originally Posted by Shoshana

Sleeplover, I think you said something important about 'group identity.' Granted, I don't have the group identity as a white person, even has a white woman, but I have experienced its importance in other ways. For one, I am an adoptee - that fact has set me apart and made me different from my non-adopted peers, to varying levels of intensity at different points in my life.

That's it, exactly!! We all get the importance of high self-esteem. But high 'group esteem', as one article put it, is equally important.

[Shoshana]

Ack, Adrienne, you quoted my post before I fixed the misattribution -- I corrected my thread above when I realized you (Sneezy) had written about group identity!

[Sleeplvr]

I would like to take credit for saying that but I didn't. It was in the links that Sneezy posted.

[sneezyone]

Originally Posted by Bellemom

Society is changing. The generation coming up is made up of adopted people, mixed race families, racially diverse social groups, homosexual and lesbian parents, split families, people with many half siblings they don't live with, grandparents raising children.... and it's all normal (and GOOD) to them. A typical family with two parents (male/female) and biological children is becoming not the norm. I think this shift scares a lot of people, but I think it shows how society is constantly adjusting and changing. I, for one, will embrace those changes and expose my children to families of every kind.

I agree with this. I know that I, personally, find it very scary. I'm not afraid to admit that (heck, I have no fear! HE HE! . It scares me because just in the two sides of my family I can see some of what's been lost and I'm fearful that these new generations will be even more disconnected.

My maternal grandma is not even remotely close to any version of Big Mama. She can't cook and never could (to hear her children tell it); she golfs and plays bridge; surfs the net like a madwoman and at her 80th birthday party, the only black people there were her children, grandchildren and in-laws. When my cousin and his wife came to visit, she pulled me aside to say how much she was looking forward to them moving out so she could be on her own again. This woman will outlive us all. Anyway, as my cousins and I have gotten older, the one thing we all agree on is that we thank GOD for our fathers!! We wouldn't be/feel 'black' if not for them. What we didn't get from my mom's family in terms of group esteem and cultural pride/history we were at least able to get from them.

[Shoshana]

As I was laughing about the miscommunication above, I thought, "and how would Xiomara be different if she didn't have an absent-minded professor as a mother?" That thought lead me to these ideas...

As an adoptee, my identity has always been very important to me. Maybe because it felt like it wasn't a given, because it felt like I had a lot of possibilities about "who" I would become. I always pondered what it would be like to be someone else -- I could have been someone else if I'd been adopted into a different family. Really, a great deal of my identity (about 40-50% based on the psychological literature re the influence of the environment) was determined by sheer fate. I daydreamed about being a black child and looking through her eyes, or someone's bio child and learning to understand the meaning of family without being adopted. I know, I was a strange child who analyzed things obsessively. I never wished I wasn't adopted because that would mean that I wouldn't be me --

When white people raise children of color, we are adding something to their identity that would not be there if they were raised by same race families. After the 60's or 70's, the adoption literature has been very clear -- love is not enough -- it cannot erase the fact of adoption. In a smiliar vein, nor can the best intentions and adherence to primacy of fate erase the fact that our children WILL lose something by not being raised in same-race families. They will have to work harder to establish that aspect of their identity and some will have greater success than others.

Is this really such a difficult concept to understand? Do I understand it because I am adopted? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm sincerely curious.

[redhedded]

I don't think a single person who has commented here is unprepared or unwilling to integrate our child's cultural history and experience into everyday life; it is certainly the case for us.

The cultural identity to which many of you refer is just as common among first generation Americans, children of immigrant families. I know that both my MIL and my sister's MIL have really really struggled with the how do we maintain our language, our religion, our traditions/celebrations with American inundation. And the children often do not fit into the society that their parents did or might still be expected. My BIL was expected to participate in an arranged marriage; it was serious business, and my sister was not the preferred choice, in the 90s.

[BethanyB]

Sneezy, you said:

I certainly don't think anyone wants to reach out and snatch children away from homes just so they can be placed in same-race ones - or say that you're not a great mom to your kids. I think the issues get confused because the only comparison folks want to see is a child in a dysfunctional bfamily or foster family vs. a healthy transracial one and that's just not the only choice, particularly in infant placements.

I understand that no one is saying that they want to snatch my babies from underneith me so that they can go to same race homes.

But what I do get is that you as a black person feel that MY children would be better off without me. Even though you didn't personalize it by saying bethanyb's kids. You are pointing out how you feel about a certain situation of which I happen to be in with my children. So it is personal.

I happen to feel that my children will grow up happy and healthy right where they are. Even though I am white and they are black. And I know that we are going to disagree on this and that is fine but I want to make my opinion clear.

What I don't understand is how you get that I am saying that black parents are not as good as I am. I never said that at all. What you and others on this thread are saying is that my black children would do better to be with a black couple. I disagree. I think my black children will do just as well with me. To me I will never be a second rate parent for any reason. And because I feel I'm the right fit for my kids despite the difference in our race - does not mean that I think black families are not good choices for black children. That would be quite silly. Why wouldn't black parents be good choices for black children? I believe that ANY child would do well in ANY home that was caring, loving, kind, excepting and so on. By me saying that I'm a great mom to my children does not mean that I feel I'm better than anyone else- And I feel it's wrong for someone to tell me that very same thing.

I am a teacher and am typing on my prep right now. My classroom assistant in my classroom is right next to me. She is adopted. It was an infant agency adoption. I asked her if she felt that every child would be better off with their birth family. She said absolutly not! She is a happy healthy adult who ended up finding her bmom as an adult and had a healthy relationship with her until she passed away a few years ago. She would never want to replace the adoptive family who raised her.

I plan on being very open and honest with my kids. I am going to try to set up pictures and letters with my kids bmom even though it's a DYFS case and her rights were terminated. I plan to help my kids find her someday if that is what they wish. I have pictures to show them of her and I have a short bio on her life that they can read. My family and I adore my children and I could not even imagine loving someone or something more than I love them.

In my opinion, I am not second best because I adopted them. I am not second best because I don't share their race or culture by appearance. I can share their culture by learning and teaching them. Participating in cultural events and so on. No I won't know what it's like to be adopted. I won't know what it's like to be black. But I'm a sensitve and open person who will try my best to talk things out and be the supporting parent that they need and deserve.

Just in my school alone there are four adopted teachers. Some I had known before and others who I became close to after I brought home my babies. I have not met one person who is having issues with being adopted. I think many people do. Maybe it's because their adopted parents were not open and honest about it. Maybe because they did not grow up in the best adoptive home. But I'm just not one to believe that adoption equals adult misery. And I certainly don't buy into the second best theory.

I would never someone else they were second best at anything. Why would I tell myself?

[redhedded]

What I don't understand is how you get that I am saying that black parents are not as good as I am.

You know Bethany, not a single person ever said or intimated such though it was certainly (I don't know how) perceived that I did. Because I advocate for myself and say that I am a great and perfectly suited to be my kids mother does not mean that I insinuate anyone else is less able, just that I am here, am what they've got, am doing a good job and have no interest in approval from anyone else.