[redhedded]

I absolutely acknowledge the potential for loss when children are raised outside of their birth race or culture but do not presume anything when it comes to my kids or myself for that matter. I am aware, feel able to address issues openly when they arise and feel confident in my ability to observe and listen closely to the verbal and silent messages that my children send me about lots of feelings that they will have.

You have misunderstood me. When I said, much greater loss is a creative, open and curious child being raised in a stiffling, narrow minded and judgmental household or a happy and optimistic child being raised in a negative and overly pessimistic one. And my list goes on and on. I was not speaking specifically but generally and do not presume that this cannot be achieved in a same race placement. In fact, my statement was not about adoption at all but about the potential for loss for any child in any given family, adopted but presumably born into.

My real issue with this is the presumption that same race placements are in the best interest of the child. I vehemently disagree, and I will tell you why. I believe that life, becoming a parent, no matter how you do it, is emotionally risky. There is potential for loss in each of our lives. A child who grows up with a parent who is physically absent has potential for great loss but it is not a given. A child who grows up with a physically present but emotionally unavailable and critical or disinterested parent is at a greater risk of loss in my opinion. A child who grows up with an dysfunctional (beyond the norm of dysfunction) extended family is at risk for loss as is the child who grows up with severed or strained extended family relationships, regardless of the reason. A child that grows up with an illness, a sick parent, a parent with unresolved issue or grief, any obtacle, has potential for loss. My point was that any child who is raised within in a family that is vastly different in spirit or nature than they, that is outside of their community standard or that is different than what they would like to have has the potential for loss.

As an aside, I have two friends who were adopted; they have/had anger, not about adoption, but that their families had a biological child after them. One does not think she was treated differently though she wonders aloud why her parents adopted her. I do not ever ever presume that adopted children living within families where there are biological children present are going to be angry, resentful or feel lost; however, I know that it happens, because I have seen it. It is just that: individual experience.

I think this same standard of presumption about what is in the best interest of a child could be applied to many situations, such as children are always better off in two parent households, children are better off with heterosexual parents rather than homosexual ones, children are better off in devoutly religious and conservative homes as opposed to socially liberal ones (and vice versa of course), all of which I reject. Children of single parents, whether by divorce or the intentional choice to parent as a single person, probably have the potential for loss; I don't ever presume that each child will experience that. And yep, just like adoption, I presume that personality, sensitivity, how one internalizes events/experiences determines how they will feel about any loss or potential loss in their lives.

[Sleeplvr]

The most common thing that I've heard from AA people regarding CC parents adopting AA children is "Why do they think they do a better job of raising children than us?"

Red when you made that comments of being the perfect parent for your child because she is gifted that is exactly what I'm talking about. I was really offended by that because it implied that an AA family would be lacking. Maybe her bfamily might not have been prepared to do that but we don't know what an AA adoptive family would have done. I'm glad that you posted again and clarified that statement.

[leaabc123]

that extra scrutiny will give you a great taste of what it's like to be black in the US. We are often under scrutiny, having our every move watched and interpreted, often incorrectly. Just yesterday I was out playing with dd and hiding behind a tree. The look the cop who drove by gave me was nothing short of a perp scan. yes, it would be great to have it disappear, but that's just part of life. Adopting transracially makes you conspicuous, no matter what.

having grown up as one of the only white kids in my neighborhood (a predominately black housing project in NYC), I have seen this first hand and also have the unique experience of being an "outsider" in the immediate community. It may sound strange but it took a long time for me to come to terms with being white. I saw my friends followed in stores and on more than one occasion, as a teen, it was assumed I was either seeking drugs or prostituting when standing outside and waiting for friends (no this is not an exageration).

There is no easy answer here. I wish more people in every community were open to adoption, to foster care, etc then there wouldn't be so much of a need.

We talk to our kids about manty things regarding identity. We talk about being strong, smart, pretty, etc. We talk about their hair and how it looks in different styles and we talk about our skin and how it looks good but different. Not to say that this is all of our emphasis. We also talk about the sky and preschool next year and cats and al the stuff a little kid talks about.

Our girls have already had loss, that can not be diminished but we can acknowledge it and allow them to grieve as well as preparing them to be responsible and confident people in the world.

[sneezyone]

Correct me if I'm wrong Red, but it seems like you're saying the risk of racial identity challenges is on par with all the other potential risks of growing up/childrearing.

Whereas I'm saying that I think the risk is more significant than that and can perhaps exacerbate those other risks. I have experienced some racial identity issues for myself (as well as some of the other risks you mentioned) and I didn't find them to be comparable. Again, I'm not saying that identity challenges are a foregone conclusion or that they can't be overcome - I just believe that all risks should be minimized (to whatever extent possible) and same race placements are one way to do that.

I guess I'm a little surprised that there's even much controversy about it. I'm okay with being dd's second best option for a mom (next to her original one). Isn't this the same concept?

We recognize that camp counselors mentoring younger kids bring with them a certain level of credibility that parents don't have - isn't it possible that a same-race parent might carry more weight with a minority child than a cc parent who lacks the same cultural experiences - all other things being equal?

Why is it so threatening to suggest that a Spanish-speaking Guatemalan-American household might be better for a Guatemalan child than an English only one, or that a Pidgin-speaking Hawaiian family might be best for a Hawaiian child , or that a bi-racial family might be best for a bi-racial child - all other things being equal?

The best interests of the child don't just include financial resources or academic background or neighborhood quality. The ability to relate from personal experience is just as valuable.

[redhedded]

Well, I am glad that I clarified, as I was more misunderstood than I thought. My comment was never about my ability and another family's inability to meet my child's needs; it was my way of saying, judge on merit, not make sweeping generalizations. Just because I am white does not make me less able to parent my child.

While general, I was actually thinking of a very good friend when I made that comment. His experience was one of being raised in his very southern religious household where compliance was more important than anything, including having a voice. He is intelligent, highly creative, loving, open, kind and sensitive and gay; his parents were inflexible, often disapproving of his free spirit, critical, often unaffectionate and uncommunicative. His childhood was so hard; he felt alone, alienated, insecure, unsupported then of course had to decide to sever his family ties because of the pain they caused him. So. . . I always, in the back of my mind, know that being with those who gave birth to you, being with those who "resemble" you does not guarantee that you do not feel deep and great loss.

[sneezyone]

Originally Posted by leaabc123

I have seen this first hand and also have the unique experience of being an "outsider" in the immediate community. It may sound strange but it took a long time for me to come to terms with being white...

Leaa, this is EXACTLY how my half-sister's half-sister (got that??) felt being raised in a family of color.

[redhedded]

Nevermind, I give up.

[sneezyone]

Originally Posted by FH-redhedded

His experience was one of being raised in his very southern religious household where compliance was more important than anything, including having a voice. He is intelligent, highly creative, loving, open, kind and sensitive and gay; his parents were inflexible, often disapproving of his free spirit, critical, often unaffectionate and uncommunicative. His childhood was so hard; he felt alone, alienated, insecure, unsupported then of course had to decide to severe his family ties because of the pain they caused him. So. . . I always, in the back of my mind, know that being with those who gave birth to you, being with those who "resemble" you does not guarantee that you do not feel deep and great loss.

That is an important loss, Red. But I'll betcha the man you mentioned can find people who've experienced similar losses among other members of the gay community and be accepted there. Those who lose their connection to their ethnic culture may never find acceptance among their ethnic peers and/or may have a very difficult time achieving it and that is a group with which they are quite visibly aligned.

[joskimo]

Originally Posted by Sleeplvr

The most common thing that I've heard from AA people regarding CC parents adopting AA children is "Why do they think they do a better job of raising children than us?"

Do CC people say that we can do a better job parenting AA children? I don't think I've ever said that. In these scenerios where we're trying to present "all things being equal", that doesnt' always apply to our real world. The fact is, with the given circumstances, if we hadn't adopted our daughter, she would have been sent to fostercare until a family would have been located. No offense to foster care, but do you deem that as a better situation then being placed with a loving family prepared to make a lifelong committment to a child? All things are not equal. We were selected by H's bmom, would she have selected an AA family instead? Perhaps, but with the agency we used, there were no AA families. None.

[Sleeplvr]

It has been implied or said a number of times and not by you Jo. There have been posts on this forum by aparents where they or their friends & family members made comments about the child being better off being raised white or by a white family. Is being raised by black parents so bad?

Just this past weekend we spent some time with a CC couple from our foster parent class and they were asking questions about our parenting methods. They were critical of some of our choices and we never said anything about their choices. And believe me there are things that they are doing and plan to do that we just don't agree with but we didn't see the need to criticize. I don't think they are raising their children wrong just different. I notice that I get criticized more by CC parents than AA parents because we believe in being strict. Discipline is usually the dividing factor. Maybe I don't get criticized by AA parents because we have similar parenting techniques.

[Casey677]

I'm okay with being dd's second best option for a mom (next to her original one). Isn't this the same concept?

Not quite the same concept. I feel like I'm being told that we're the third best option. First biomom, then an AA family, and last my dh & I. And that just upsets me.

[Sleeplvr]

I think that's another difference in how AA families perceive adoption. I'm okay with being 3rd, 4th, 5th or even the 10th best option for my kids. That doesn't impact whether I'm a good parent or not. I'm doing the best I can and it may not be ideal but the best given the circumstances.

[Casey677]

I'm not ok with that. I believe that we were chosen to parent dd for a reason- she was meant to be our dd. Not couple A's.... then we tried couple B..... that didn't work then on to to couples C & D.... ok, I guess that other couple will do since none of these others are working out.

I really don't want to get into a huge debate over this. I'm ok with members of the AA community not thinking I'm good enough to raise dd. I'm ok with members of the CC community (is there one?) thinking that I "settled" by adopting a biracial baby. What I am not ok with is my child suffering because of it. Thankfully everyone in our circle of family, friends, & our very mixed race neighborhood have been nothing but extremely supportive of us and loving of her.

[Sleeplvr]

I think kids end up where they are meant to be. That's just destiny.

[Jensboys]

I do think that all things being equal, I am probably the 6th best choice for my boys, but we still are the family that God intended.

First choice for them would have been to be raised in their family of orgin.

Second choice would be their extended family.

Third choice would be community of origin

Fourth choice would be same race placement but outside community of origin. (for example a black Canadian family or distant AA family)

Fifth choice would be different race placement, but still in the community of origin.

Sixth choice would be outside community (us!), outside race (us) and outside country (us!).


Now I know this always gets other adoptive parents upset but ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL I think it is best for kids to stay in their family of origin if possible, to stay connected to their community of origin if possible, to retain their language of birth if possible, to retain their culture of birth if possible. BUT once I was chosen to be their mother - that was IT. They were my kids. Not all things were "equal" and we were (and ARE) the best available option for our boys. No, its not ideal, but not a whole lot about adoption is "ideal" all the time.

Interestingly, I did find out after that we were chosen by the swers over a AA family. In those circumstances, it was decided that a single parent (mom) aa family was not the best option for two boys who they felt strongly needed a father. I think, after knowing and loving my boys, that they made the right decision. The kids desperately did need a dad.