[rlorusso]

Hi all! I have a question which I would like some help with please. What do I do when my 3 year old boy refuses to do as he's asked, which means that nearly every time I need to be assertive, for example, washing the soap off his hands before drying them, he ends up crying. We're only 3+ months in to our adoptive placement so it's all very new still. I've read up on some of the advice available and wherever possible we will and do praise the good behaviours. However, I am just recently starting to feel that the defiance comes regardless of positive praise. I would be really grateful for anybody's opinion and shared experience that they may have with this. Thanks in advance. Rachel x

[Howdy]

Have you tried giving choices? Such as, "do you want to rinse your hands with cold water or warm water?" "After you rinse your hands would you like to dry with the purple towel or the green towel?"

[itri1972]

Hey - What do you mean "assertive" when washing his hands? Have you read any Love and Logic books? Maybe start there. It seems like there are plenty of natural consequences of not rinsing the soap off. You know? Like go have him immediately eat cheese puffs, and discover how awful it is to not have rinsed the soap off. THen you can be all like "Wow, yeah, that was a mistake not rinsing the soap off your hands, Huh? I bet next time you'll listen to me." You know? Or simply nothing else happens until the hands are washed. "Oh well, let me know when you are ready to rinse that soap off, then we can eat dinner...play whatever, watch that show, etc"

[stllc116]

My daughter is two and a half and she occasionally does the same thing. Not sure if it will help but when I can I try and not get into a battle of wills or argument. I don't give in, I just don't argue and let her make her own choice. For example I might say with indifference "That's fine if you don't want to rinse your hands, but we don't have snack until we finish washing our hands." Of course this only works if you can stop them from doing something else they want. It doesn't work if you are for example running late and trying to get them out the door. In those cases I resort to choices like someone else mentioned. "Do you want to rinse your hands or do you want Mommy to do it?" Good luck!

[gracegirl]

We're just about 2 months into our adoptive placement of our 3 year old and also dealing with some defiance. Like others have said, giving choices seems to help. We've also started having him sit on a carpet as a sort of "time out" (although we sit right next to him) until he's calmed down or ready to do what needs to be done. Lately, when we start to carry him there, saying "that's ok, you can sit on your carpet until you're ready/feeling calmed down", he'll say, "I don't want to sit!" and we offer him a chance to "do that again". If he says "yes", we go back to where the conflict happened and go through it again (usually telling him what it should look like first). For example, when it was time to go to bed last night (after bath, stories, etc.) he yelled, "no!" and swung at me when I was going to carry him into his room to rock. I started to carry him to the carpet, he objected, I offered a "do over", he said, "yes", and I set him back on the couch. I said, "It's time to go to bed" and carried him to his room with no fuss. It doesn't always work, but we're seeing improvement. Good luck!

[jmd5294]

Originally Posted by Howdy

Have you tried giving choices? Such as, "do you want to rinse your hands with cold water or warm water?" "After you rinse your hands would you like to dry with the purple towel or the green towel?"

Ditto this. This helps a ton, and keeps you from having a battle every. single. time. My daughter is almost 3 1/2, so I know exactly what you're talking about.
I think a lot of it is just testing, especially if you are new in your relationship. My daughter has been with me since infancy, and still does this-- no crying but a lot of protesting, defiance, seeing what she can get away with. Be loving and firm.

[rlorusso]

Thanks to all of you for your advice. The common theme is choices. To them it's empowering, for us, we need to be one step ahead. So, wherever possible, I will allow him to make a choice to avoid a battle of wills.

[jalapeno]

Yup, I know how that goes!

I agree with giving choices. I think ideally those are best offered beforehand (in anticipation of a possible issue) rather than after a child has already not complied with an instruction. Although I will readily give my kids other options assuming they are communicating respectfully with me - i.e. not screaming and throwing a fit over the soap but simply not wanting to do it and using big kid words to tell me that.

Something else that helps in my house is writing things down. My DD was having trouble for a while doing all the necessary steps when she used the bathroom. I made up a sign for the bathroom door. She couldn't read the sign on her own so we went over it together and discussed it at a neutral time (i.e. not immediately after a problem). There is just something about having things in writing, and of course my DD sees the sign every time she uses the bathroom as a reminder.

I think just sitting a child down at a neutral time is helpful by itself. It gives you a chance to ask why they are behaving that way - maybe the water is too cold? Maybe he'd just like a chance to play with soap bubbles during a play time?

My kids are a little bit older now but if they refused to wash or wash properly, I would just have them sit there until they were ready to do it. Of course I suppose that assumes you've got a son who will willingly sit there even though he's being defiant about the soap. Mine would for the most part but sometimes they balk at accepting their discipline. That's a whole other issue though, I suppose.

Best of luck!

[rlorusso]

Hi there! Options definitely works to avoid some battles which means less tears. In the main this is what I am choosing to do now, however I still have some trouble coming to terms with the fact that children shouldn't just be able to follow an instruction without options/choices. My litte boy gets upset if I ask him to have a wee when he doesn't feel the need to go. For example, to avoid bed wetting. He is dry in the day and at night. He doesn't wear nappies. Before bed, he often refuses to have a last wee, saying he doesn't need one, then when we put him on the toilet he does a wee, therefore avoiding bed wetting. What we seem to struggle to avoid, is him getting upset because he just won't accept what we're asking him to do and why. Any ideas?

[Suzeb1]

There are some children, raised in homes since birth, with no trauma, who seem to have compliant personalities and are just easy. Then there are all the rest

'What a whirlwind of change these last months have been for you! I can imagine there are times when all you want to say is "do it!" I've certainly been there.

Even if your son would have been with you since birth, three is an age of new independence and awareness. Wanting some control and choice would be very typical. Given that, from his point of view, you are still strangers and he's learned that adults can't be trusted, or they leave you, I think it's makes a lot of sense that he wouldn't be predisposed to trust you or be compliant. Add on to that all of the neurological research that indicates that nurtured children's brains are different than those that aren't nurtured...and it's easy to imagine a child who is still overwhelmed, not prepared to trust, and, perhaps, with some challenges that make trusting/compliance challenging.

If you are a reader, I really like Patty Cogen's "Parenting your Internationally adopted child." I wish it didn't have the International part in the title; it's very relevant for domestic adoptions - particularly of older children. Both Mary Sheedy Kurchinka and Becky Bailey are favorite parenting authors of mine. Their ideas worked well with my "not easy" child and while not identical, they are both based on the idea that one can love and teach a child into wanted behavior, and that children's personalities play a big part in how they need to be parented.

The bathroom example is one we have in my house. I am now convinced that my daughter genuinely doesn't know she needs to go so I never ask " do you need to go potty" or "sit down. you need to go potty" because I will get an "no, I don't" and I believe she is telling me the truth.

So, for several months, the word potty was never used, I only said "it's time to sit down on the toilet now" and she would say " I don't have to go potty" and I would say "I know! that's why you just need to sit down." It took many months to develop a habit, but I rarely get "I don't need to" any more.

Good luck. It sounds like you are exploring ideas, staying open to challenging your own thoughts about what things "should" look like, and trying to figure out the best way to help your little guy!

Susan

[alys1]

May have help for you on the pee-ing issue. My standard, that so far has worked on all boys. If they say they don't have to go, I say, in a bright, cheerful voice, "Oh! Well, why don't you try and see if something comes out?"

Boys like to experiment. Boys like science. I've found this to be pretty much irresistible, and works best if you're not in the bathroom when you say it, then they go in alone to be Mr. Scientist, and see what happens. Usually they emerge, saying, "Something came out!" like this is the most amazing discovery in the history of the earth :-D . I *always* say something back, very brief, with the cheerful, amazed voice, like, "Wow!" or "Amazing!" Never anything sarcastic or indicating I thought it would happen.

Honestly, it makes the whole issue kind of fun. It works on boys day after day, year after year.

While at it, you might add, "Who's going to beat to the car?" as substitute for "Time to go to the car now." Say that every time, and every time make sure the child gets to the car first. Be sure to say, in a cute way, that you're so disappointed that you lost, or "Wow! You won again?!?" while hamming it up so they love the fact that they won. If the grammar bugs you, you could say, "Who's going to get to the car first today?" with a challenge in your voice and a twinkle in your eye. You can have a lot of fun figuring out how to get there last every time. :-)

Adding some silliness and humor to the day can avoid many a power struggle. The book "How to Talk to Kids So Kids Will Talk, and How to Talk So Kids Will Listen" has *wonderful* ideas about talking to children. 5 main ideas, all worth their weight in gold. On Amazon, great prices. It's my and my friends' "bible" for raising children.

[rlorusso]

Thank you all for taking the time to share your experiences and sympathise with mine. I look back at the last 4 months and am amazed by how many bridges we've crossed and how quickly I've had to learn to be a mummy, that's not easy.

Susan, I want to ask you if I could about the neurological development you touched on. Is this something that will now develop or will remain undeveloped? Sorry if that's a bit of a tough question.

I am very open to change and finding alternatives that work if what I am doing doesn't. I want to do the best I can. I do count myself very lucky that our little boy has attached very well to both myself and my husband, I already feel that we have a bond, he ceratainly comes to me for affection, reassurance and play!!!

[Suzeb1]

Originally Posted by rlorusso

Susan, I want to ask you if I could about the neurological development you touched on. Is this something that will now develop or will remain undeveloped? Sorry if that's a bit of a tough question.

Here's some very recently published research, and there's more like it: https://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/23329.aspx

I think scientists are learning that the brain is more plastic - for longer - than we ever thought, and we are learning more about how our interactions with our children help create their brain.

I think a child who has had a level of trauma and/or has other sensitivities can be harder to parent. They aren't as compliant, they require more watching, they can be exhausting...and yet they need, as much or more than any child, a calm, nuturing, fun response, to help them change the associations in their brain.

My daughter came home at 6 months old. She had been in a lot of pain for several months before she came to me, and she had severe separation grief. It was years before I figured out that she also has significant reactions to dairy and gluten (causing rages), and yet, our journey is very, very hopeful.

Alys1 had a great post. DD and I are almost always engaged in a silly competion, or some great dramatic fun. She can dig her heels in, because she goes to Fight or Flight so fast, and she never flees

So, I have to be more creative, and silly, and sideways. Over time, she has learned to calm herself down most of the time. She still has her moments (mostly when she's sick...last week was HARD) but most of the time she doesn't like feeling obstinate; she obviously wants to please me and enjoys it. It's taken time, and we still have some obstacles, but we've gotten here without punishment, jand only the most limited natural consequences and only those once I was clear that she had the ability to link cause and effect.

Your son sounds wonderful and it sounds like you are on the right path. He is probably emotionally younger than his age, and probably regressed right now because of his changes...so the key words are safe and gentle. You will still be the mom and dad and provide structure, that creates safety, but you can do it in a way that lets him know that he matters more than his behavior...and that all seems to tie into how our brains develop.

Susan

[itri1972]

I love Susan's description: "Creative, and silly, and sideways."

I think that nails for what has worked for us. I have 3 bio, 2 step, we keep our nephew a great deal (trying to get custody), and now we have a 3yo FS who is as defiant as they come. He was moved twice before coming to me. I ALWAYS came at him sideways when he'd "entrench."
You know that moment, you can see it coming. The face scrunches up, the arms cross, his body weight expands to ten times it's actual weight, and the "I DON'T WANT TO" comes rolling off his tongue like a dare.
He's entrenched. Ready for trench warfare.
If you go at him head on, you are fighting the battle.
Go at him sideways, he'll forget he's fighting a battle.

A lot of time it's as simple as "Oh, I see you are pouting. Don't want to interrupt! Let me know when you are done so we can go ____" whatever you were planning on doing. Then I busy myself with something else.

The look on his face is priceless. "Did she just tell me to pout? Seriously?" As soon as he is done (which is very quick now), I act SUPER suprised. "OH wow! You're done already!?!? WOW! Awesome! Give me five! Ok, let's go ____"

Silly silly silly. Overly dramatic. And always sideways. I could not agree more with Susan and Alys.

[werner719]

My daughter is also 3 and we have had some "defiance" issues since she's been home (about the same amount of time as your son). I also have a 7 year old biological son and remember him doing a lot of the same things when he was that age (typical 3 year old behavior). I recently started a game with her that she loves and has made this issue so much easier to deal with. Whenever I am trying to get her to do something that I know she either doesn't want to do or will take FOREVER to do, I will challenge her with, "I don't think you can _____. Can you _____?" It works every time as she tries to "prove" to me that she CAN do it! And it's really fun to say "Wow, I didn't know you could do that!" when she's done. Makes us both feel good and keeps us from having that dreaded battle of the wills. Hope this helps!