[HBV]

I hope I don't jinx myself w/ this post, but wanted to share with you guys. About 3 weeks ago, it was like someone flipped a switch and my usually sweet, happy little boy began throwing fits and limit testing like there was no tomorrow.

I had the LOVE & LOGIC books for older kids---a friend had told me about the philosophy and it made a lot of sense to me, but they didn't really address how to use the approach with toddlers. I found the one for early childhood, read it last week and we've already seen a big reduction in the number of tantrums.

Yesterday, my inlaws were visiting. (My MIL lets H get away with murder.) It was pouring out, H was refusing to put on his raincoat and working up a fit, and she's saying "Oh, I'll just cover him up w/ mine!" while my FIL is insisting he needs to wear his own. I just turned to H and said "Do you want to put on your right sleeve or your left sleeve first? He chooses "Right!" and puts the raincoat on, no muss, no fuss.

Then, last night, he gave himself a time out for jumping on the couch!

I know I sound like a blurb from the back cover of the book, but I'm really impressed with how this has worked.

[redbonec]

Yeah! That is so nice to find something that works.

I did read the same book, but that was when K was about 10 months old. I tried the approach until a couple months ago, but didn't really help. Well, we haven't needed it recently. BUT, I know a time is coming when we will need help again soon, so glad to know it's working for you. I think K just wasn't old enough to follow it yet.

Thanks for posting--I'l reread it to get ready for more 'independent, want my own way' days with K!

[Emster]

I'll be checking it out! I have a little screamer right now who wants what he wants. We are being consistent, but we are also getting worn down. Thanks for the info!

[OnTheJourney]

OK! Help with "Indenpendent" ones! Going to pick up that book!!!
Sound like you are doing a great job. Don't ya just love that feeling when something seems to get through!

[loveajax]

HBV, that's impressive....Must go to Borders tomorrow and have both DH and I read (we are totally inconsistent!). Thanks for sharing!

[sadiegirl]

I am guessing you are talking about giving them a choice, when they really have no choice?

You could just be like my DS though.

Me: Do you want to put your coat on or do you want mommy to help?
DS: No.

He doesn't take EITHER choice and he's doing this quite a bit.

[HBV]

Yes, sort of.

The premise is that you give them choices where you can live with either one, so yes, sometimes they don't have a choice about what, to you, is the meaningful issue (e.g. whether to wear the coat) but they do get a choice about something that's not really important to you (how they put it on) So it's all about framing the question. The idea is to find lots of opportunities for them to make choices, even when they're meaningless---Do you want to read Pajama Time or Cat in the Hat? Do you want to brush your teeth w/ your Thomas or your Elmo toothbrush?

You give them the choices throughout the day, when they're NOT throwing a fit, because it cuts down on their frustration level of never having any control over their environment. And if they don't make a choice within 10 seconds, you choose for them. (That's working, too---H has pretty quickly caught on that he has to speak up or Mommy's making the decision.)

The idea is that most tantrums are the toddler's way of asserting control, so if you give them some control over stuff you don't care about, they're more likely to go along with you when you need them to.

There are more stages to it---the next premise is that you let them live with the consequences of their choice, or help solve the problem themselves.

Sadiegirl, I have definitely noticed that H doesn't usually consider "mommy helping" a viable choice (that doesn't give him any control) So I started reframing those questions (e.g. the right sleeve/left sleeve choice----he doesn't know right from left, but he was happy he got to make a decision.)

I just like the philosophy of the book---the point is to get them to start understanding choices and consequences while they're little and the stakes aren't that high, instead of trying to get a grip when they're teenagers. I don't know if it's working for all the reasons the authors lay out in the book, all I know is....it's working for us so far. And really, I'm a results oriented girl, so that is OK W/ me!

[sadiegirl]

Hmmm, I'm glad it's working for you!

Like I said, it's not really working here...I've done the "do you want to brush your teeth with X brush or Z brush" thing and still get a no, b/c I guess, essentially he probably doesn't want to brush his teeth!

BUT, I have yet to really see any major tantrums from my guy either.

I KNOW...I am sure the 3's will be hell on wheels instead.

[mrsdatabits]

We've been doing some similar stuff with DD (though sometimes its hard to think on the fly!) and I had a couple moments today.

1) We don't let DD play with our real phone and silly me I had left it on the table where she could get it. Of course she took the opportune moment to pick it up and play with it! I asked her to give it to me and she took off saying "NO!" I then grabbed ahold of her and she start shrieking and flailing her arms. I just picked her up (the base is on top of our entertainment center so little fingers can't reach it) so she could reach the base and asked her to put it on the base. She did so without blinking and was fine with it!

2) DH usually gives DD her bath and is working with her on taking her clothes off. The typical night recently has been DH telling DD she needs to get undressed before she can take a bath and she's stubbornly refusing to take her clothes off. Tonight, though, he was working on a problem with our computer so I started DD's bath. I didn't say anything but started running the water and DD comes tearing into the bathroom and says "watcha doin' mama?" and I asked if she wanted a bubble bath. She immediately wanted into the tub, but I told her she had to get undressed first. She had her jacket off in no time flat and tried to get her shirt off (I had to help)... helped her start getting her pants off, which she finished and then pulled off her socks. I helped with her onsie and she took off her diaper. Popped her in the tub without a tear number one! I told DH and he was like "I hate you" in his joking tone. And, while typing this out I just realized we had no hysterics in the tub tonight!! (usually when its time to wash DD's hair she gets hysterical).

[McNally720]

That is a really great book/approach--I've read it/recommended it as a teacher, I think it's time I re-read it as an actual parent!

[McNally720]

I've been trying to keep this technique in mind lately--and I've had two successes....

1) Do you want to go potty before or after Mama?? (we're back on the potty train--we'll see how long it goes this time)

This worked all day long today--no crazy potty refusal showdowns!!

2) What do you want to put on/take off first--your pants or shirt?? Again, no crazy "I'm not getting dressed/undressed" drama that can so quickly get outta control!

[jalapeno]

Originally Posted by mrsdatabits

DH usually gives DD her bath and is working with her on taking her clothes off. The typical night recently has been DH telling DD she needs to get undressed before she can take a bath and she's stubbornly refusing to take her clothes off. Tonight, though, he was working on a problem with our computer so I started DD's bath. I didn't say anything but started running the water and DD comes tearing into the bathroom and says "watcha doin' mama?" and I asked if she wanted a bubble bath. She immediately wanted into the tub, but I told her she had to get undressed first. She had her jacket off in no time flat and tried to get her shirt off (I had to help)... helped her start getting her pants off, which she finished and then pulled off her socks. I helped with her onsie and she took off her diaper. Popped her in the tub without a tear number one! I told DH and he was like "I hate you" in his joking tone. And, while typing this out I just realized we had no hysterics in the tub tonight!! (usually when its time to wash DD's hair she gets hysterical).

We run into similar situations with our DD. My DH usually brushes her teeth after bath and really has to fight with her. He's tried the same approach I use but it just doesn't seem to work for him. She likes brushing her own teeth so I generally tell her she can have her toothbrush IF she lets me brush her teeth first. Then she gets to finish brushing her teeth. But she goes nuts with my DH trying to do the same thing. So I think it should really be me who brushes her teeth for the next week or so to try to establish a better routine. And then I suspect my DH could jump back in. Sometimes changing something about the situation (like which parent) seems to throw her off enough that she forgets to argue. And in this situation maybe part of it is that I sort of expect her to comply and my DH might be anticipating a fight.

[HBV]

Originally Posted by jalapeno

And in this situation maybe part of it is that I sort of expect her to comply and my DH might be anticipating a fight.

I think this is so right----we have the same trouble. DH, who is super smart and very good w/ people, just freezes and tries to force H comply (usually by repeating himself) instead of finding a way to make H WANT to comply. He's working on it, though.

[ckbqb77]

hi all!

i was wondering if everyone has used the book specifically for young children, or the original love and logic book? i've read reviews online, and it sounds like some people feel the "young children" book is a waste of time if you alraedy have the original. We have the original, just trying to see if the young children one would be worth the $. Money is tight right now, with the booming economy and all! lol!
-c

[dac_cincy]

I was given both books. I like the toddler book much more. Could you check it out of the library first to determine if you will find more useful?

Love to you,