[monmon]

Hello All,

We just adopted our dd, and she has been home with us for three weeks now. She has settled in fantastic and seems to be right in the swing of things. We adopted her from our local Children's Services and she is 4.5 years old, with no physical or psychological problems.

For the last three or four days, all she has talked about is her bmom. She hasn't seen her bmom in over 2 years. She does not talk about her to me, but I hear her talking to friends/playmates about her constantly. She was originally calling her her real mom. I corrected her in saying her birth mom, but when she thinks I cannot hear, she reverts back to real mom.

What bothers me about this is that the fmom said that K has never, I mean never, talked about her bmom. K's bmom is being charged with neglect and fail to protect (from a very abusive boyfriend). At first, I was quite suprised that she talked about her, as K has, from reports, been very scared of her bmom. Now, it seems that is all she can talk about.

Further, the kids around her don't quite understand what she is talking about, refering to real mom. They just think she is talking about me and it is causing confusion amoungst the kids, therefore leading to some interesting questions.

This is bothering me quite a bit, as the fmom has said that K has never talked about her bmom because she is petrified of her. Why is she talking about her now all of a sudden? Is this a sign that K is not happy where she is in a round about way? She does not seem unhappy, but you can never tell with a 4 year old. This has me confused. She talks about her bmom in a very good light (she is bragging), which does not mesh with what the fmom states was K's reaction to her bmom.

Any insite into this would be very helpful, as I see my dh cringe too everytime he hears her say, "My real mom...". So far, we have let her chat away with the other kids, but should we have a little talk with her? Ask her her thoughts on her being adopted? If she is happy? We have told her many times that we love her, but she has not responded. She does say "I love you too", on the phone though, even before we say it. Is she too young for this talk? Help!

[jude4691]

I really would not worry about this and would allow her to talk about her bmum and allow her to call her her real mum if that is what she is comfortable with.
She is going to be building a bond with you on a daily basis, so there is no need for you to feel threatened in any way.I would hesitate to correct her when she uses the term real mum, as this may cause her to feel ashamed of the interest she has in her bmum.
What did she call the foster carer?If she referred to her by a nane other than mum maybe real mum is just a way for her to distinguish between you, her new mum and her bmum.
I'm adopted and traced my bparents and would refer to each set of parents as mum and dad, but if I were talking about both sets I would ditinguish between them as bparents and aparents.Calling my bmum mum does not mean that I love my adoptive mum any less.
Maybe she feels safe with you now, and if she does not see her bmum anymore maybe she now feels safe to talk about her.How developed is her speach?It may be that up until now she has not had the words to use.
Children this age also love being the centre of attention, so maybe she is using this to get attention from her peers.
you are still in the very early stages of having your daughter with you.Our 8 year old still talks about her bparents using the term mum and dad and it causes no problem at all.she is still attaching well to us, and called us mum and dad straight away.

[Jensboys]

I also adopted a 4 and a half year old (boy) and also shortly after coming to us, he talked ALOT about his birthmom. Part of that is that kids in foster care are always told that "you stay with foster mom until your mommy can take you back". He couldnt understand that he had been told he would go back to bmom, that now he had ANOTHER mom again.

Its a form of grieving - even if she is scared of her, she is still her "first mom" and important to your daughter. I would ENCOURAGE her to talk about her - see if you can get some pictures etc that will allow her to process her grief.

Also, make sure she isnt talking about her foster mom. Our boys considered their foster mom very much their "real mom". So her grief at leaving foster mom might be coming out in this way -- she cant understand why her "mom" would give her away, and is trying to process it.

Either way - DO NOT let her sense your discomfort because those are YOUR issues. She needs to be able to express her feelings and her thoughts in anyway she wishes to process her loss.

Jen

[teesah]

I have a 4 yr old adaughter, when talking about her bmom she refers to her as Mama Naynay, (Naynay her nick name), or she says her bmom. It takes time especially when a child is comming from an unstable situation. I sat down with my daughter and explained that when she was born she came out of Naynay's tummy and she is called your bmom. When I adopted her she was born in my heart. Reassure her that this is her home and that you will be her mom forever. She'll come around. I would not let her talk to her bmom on the phone it may confuse her especially if the adoption was not what the bmom wanted adn her rights were terminated. That is the situation I am comming from (terminated due to abandonment and neglect), I let 2 conversation happen and now regret it, my daughter just screamed threw the phone and cried for 2 hours and that was at 3 1/2 yrs old. I am all for the bmom's involvment but she knows it won't happen until she is stable, & free from drugs.

Pray for her, love her, hold her, rock her, kiss her! She'll come around and just keep referring to her bmom as such unless you know her name and can call her by that, I know my daughter likes to call her bmom momma nay nay because she remembers a lady was nice and was told she was her mom. Even though she does not know why she wants to call her that; I think it is really out of respect for her bmom-
un-contiously.

teesah

[crick]

I agree with the others who recommend you encourage your daughter to talk about her bmom. It allows her to know it's safe to talk to you about whatever she's feeling and helps her trust you.

In the beginning, my then 4 year old daughter would only talk about her bmom with others, mainly dh, but would not talk about her with me for fear of hurting my feelings. Kids are smart that way. It took a long time before she would openly discuss her bmom with me. I wanted so much to be there for her during her grieving and anger but had to wait til she felt safe to do that.

"Our" kids come with a history and past that is theirs. They deserve to hold onto that and not have it squashed. After everything else that's been taken away from them, their memories/fantasies are all they have left.

Don't take it personally...as hard as it may be. This is a very confusing time for her. Eventhough she hasn't seen bmom in 2 years, she still knows there has been a loss and is trying to work through the loss. And Jen had a good point too....she may be grieving the loss of her fmom more than the bmom depending on her memory etc.

Just be there for her and support her. And when you are overwhelmed with emotions...take a break and go have a cry or vent to someone. It's a very emotionally draining time...

[tricia3]

Originally Posted by crick

"Our" kids come with a history and past that is theirs. They deserve to hold onto that and not have it squashed. After everything else that's been taken away from them, their memories/fantasies are all they have left.

Amen to that !!!

[monmon]

Thanks all for your input. I was just not sure what to do.

It is a bit of a difficult situation, as K was in foster care for 2 years with the same provider. She called the fparents mommy and daddy. They are wonderful people and really made K who she is today. What I find confusing is that she does not talk about them. The fmom was her sole influence from 2 years of age. I find it baffling that K chooses to speak of her bmom, who she is terrified of, rather than this wonderful women who raised her for 2 years.

I, obviously, have a bit of resentment towards the bmom due to what she did to K. K has never and is not allowed by law to talk or see her bmom (at least I think until she is 18). The physical abuse (broken bones, kicked out teeth, pulled out hair, punching, biting, etc) that happened to K would scare the hell out of most people, and for her bmom to watch, participate and allow makes me very mad. I guess this is why I am perplexed and upset she would choose to talk about her rather than fmom. She refers to her fmom by her first name now and there is no confusion regarding the two.

I am scared to initiate conversation with K about her bmom, as I do not want to upset her or scare her as I am bringing up the subject not her. Maybe I will try and broach it very softly and see what K will say.

Thanks again for all your help.

[crick]

Monica,

since she was in the same fhome for 2 years and did call fmom her mommy, are you sure she's not referring to her when she talks about mommy? Even if she's referring to fmom by her name, it's still easy to forget and call her mommy.

If she is indeed talking about the bmom, it might just be her way of trying to understand all the changes and confusion. (my "real" mom was like this, then I had another mom, and now I have yet another mom...)

I totally understand your resentment towards the bmom...think a lot of us have some. I had a lot of it in the beginning and still do have some. However, whatever feelings I have towards the bparents are mine, and keep those hidden from my kids. They lived it and don't need my comments too, you know?

I understand the fear you talk about that might come up if you discuss it with her. I'll also point out that in my opinion, the unknown & untalked about can create more fear. Kids have very active imaginations and with all the confusion & changes, it's hard to remember the truths sometimes. So they make up even more vivid and scary "truths" which can be extremely fearful. If they can talk to an adult about it, and get a more relative truth, their fears can be eased. Obviously a lot of their fears are a direct result of what really happened and don't need to make anything up, but it also helps to talk about it so they understand that it's over now, they are safe, and it's not going to happen ever again. Takes time to reach some kids on this one, and they need a lot of reassurance that they are safe.

Hang in there and take it day to day.
Crick

[monmon]

Thank you Crick for your advice. I too thought that it would be healthy for her to verbalize her feelings towards the bmom, but was not sure if I should bring it up or let her do it. I think you are right in giving her a road to start on and she can choose to discuss it or not.


A few people I discussed this with all said let her discuss in her own time, but I too thought it should be brought up at least. Especially now that she has her bmom on her mind. I need to know if she is comfortable talking about her past situation and any fears she may have in the future that I can reasure her about. I know this is heavy conversation for a 4 year old, but talking about the situation for all ages alike is much more healthy than holding it all in.

Thanks again.

[monmon]

Sorry, forgot to mention that yes, I beleive she is talking about her bmom, as she refers to her as J..., my real mom.

[Jensboys]

Monica - I think its important to realize too so early in placement that your daughter NEEDS to grieve the loss of her "mommy". Her foster mom was her emotional mother, and if she truly wasnt bonded with her - thats NOT A good sign and a definite risk of attachment disorder. You WANT to encourage your daughter to talk about "Mommy X" as much as she can ... to allow her to grieve, be sad, look at pictures. Denial of her pain (even deflecting it towards her bmom) is not healthy for your daughter.

I bet this really isnt about bmom at all - I bet it is about your daughter trying to process the loss of her "mommy".

Jen

[monmon]

Its been about 6 months that K has been home with us and I guess I should post an update!

We are obviously all settled in, but in regards to talking about her bmom, she unfortunatly has some nasty comments from kids that caused her to stop talking about her with kids. This was my initial concern as well. She does mention her bmom occassionally, but never to kids anymore. Younger children do not understand adoption and her references to her real mom caused so much confusion to all she spoke to that one child ask her, how come you call your mom (me) mommy if she is not your real mom? Well K got confused. Then he asked her why she was living with me then if her real mom was elsewhere! K walked away crying, as she could not understand why the kids didn't "get it". We had a nice long discussion about kids not understanding things that they are not used to, etc. K felt much better and thank goodness understood what I meant, but from that day forward, I have never heard her talking about her bmom to other kids. She keeps that for private conversations. Hopefully when she gets older and kids understand more, she will again feel comfortable talking to her peers. There are quite a few that are also adopted, but she still doesn't talk to them either.

Thanks all for your great advise.

[carriewoman]

We got A and her two younger brothers placed a year ago and she goes through spurts of talking about her "other mom and dad". She was 4 at placement, nearly 6 now and we will have the adoption of all three final in October.
It is very healthy to vent, and A had a lot of questions for me that kinda caught me off guard. I bought "The family book" by Todd Parr, and it talks about all kinds of families, briefly mentioning adoption, and that gave A a good opportunity to question about adoption and talk about her bio parents. Also, I was having a hard time finding fun books for kids about foster care and adoption, so I wrote one for her and published it. It is the first of a series, called "My new life". If you'd like more info on it you can find my webpage at
http://www.geocities.com/carriewoman...?1125383014187
I am kinda bias I guess cause I wrote it, but it is about our kiddos life and transitioning into our home. Deals with all the comments and questions that have been comming up, and with just day to day stuff. I wrote it as if A was telling her story.
I usually don't self promote on other people's threads, sorry, but it really does help open the communication with A, and it might help with you also.

Good luck!
Carrie

[Howdy]

You might want to find a good counselor to see your daughter sometimes. My soon-to-be-adopted 9 yr old tells her therapist stuff she won't tell me, such as that she feels like if she loves her bmom she is forgetting me and if she loves me she is forgetting her bmom (I suspect that by 'forget' she might mean 'betray').

Also a good adoption-experienced therapist might be able to tell you how to talk to your daughter about her bmom and her past. I think it is pretty tricky to find the right path that is honest yet doesn't make the child think they are the spawn of evil.

My fd will talk like she wants to be with her bmom, but last year (before TPR) when the caseworker made the mistake of believing my fd's words and 'reassured' her that it was still possible that the bmom would be able to get her back, my fd got hysterical. The therapist explained (last year) that my fd wants the luxury to pretend that her bmom was great and they could live together, but without any threat of really having to go live with her.
Yesterday, out of the blue, my fd said she was so thankful I took her away from her bmom because she thinks she'd have been dead by now if she had to stay with her. [I corrected her about it being 'me' that took her away] Then today she was telling me about a little boy she had known in her neighborhood who was killed by a bad man and buried in someone's yard. I don't know if the story is true, it is hard to tell if maybe she is just busy processing some old fear or what. I'm glad to have a good therapist to help my fd deal with her past.

One thing I did, I'm not sure it was the right thing, but a few months ago when my fd was telling me how it wasn't her bmom's fault she failed rehab because some mean woman got her thrown out for making a phone call, I told my fd that if I were in rehab there was no way in the world I would risk being thrown out and losing my daughter, not even for the most important phone call in the world.

[aspenhall]

I suspect dd's true feelings when she gets that way too (she's 4). Then I verbalize her thoughts and help her understand them. Like "it's ok for you to feel confused by 2 moms" or "It's ok for you to love me it doesn't mean you have to quit loving S" or "Are you scared because you're starting to forget S?". Then she can deal honestly and openly with those feelings. I also tell her that just because her feelings scare her, doesn't mean that they scare me or that they're too big for me to handle, and that she can always bring me her "great big sadness" (her term for it) and I'll make it feel a little better.