[Deana]

I was hoping for ideas on some of my foster daughters behaviors. First of all a cure for back talking like they are 15 would be wonderful!! LOL They are 3 and 5 and you would not believe the mouths on these two. They are very argumentative, very defiant. It is a fight with them all day long. They are smart kids and know what is expected of them they just choose to do whatever they want. They were in another foster home for 15 months previous to us getting them the beginning of February and I think they just ran wild. They spent most of their day at daycare and the foster parents did nothing with them. One of our struggles is hygiene, who potty trains a kid but doesn't teach them to use toilet paper?! Any behavior modification techniques I may not have thought of would be great!! They are also very aggressive with the other children in the home(hitting, kicking, jumping on them). When ever the 5 yr old gets redirected she says what ever she did was "on accident" You could be right there and see her hit someone and it would be "on accident" Also the 5 yr old is destructive and breaks things on purpose. They also have boundary issues, hugging everyone, invading their space, etc. I know this is just a jumble of thoughts but any ideas on any of their behaviors would be appreciated. Thanks

[Barksum]

What we've found to help "calm" foster children down and that works well with all kinds of issues, whether they be physically or emotionally based, is to have a very strictly observed routine. By routine I mean: FIRST: you wake up SECOND: go potty THIRD: wash face FOURTH: brush hair FIFTH: eat breakfast, etc. etc. A schedule is ruled by time whereas a routine is ruled by steps. One must do the steps of a routine, no matter what TIME you get up. Schedules (the ones ruled by the clock) may be too overwhelming for kids -- or parents, for that matter!

If you are training a child in a new routine sometimes it helps to make a tape of yourself giving the child a directive and then sing a song or play a song that allows the child enough time to complete the task. Then give the next step and play another song. This is good for children because it is cheerful, there is no arguing with a tape (!!) and they can establish a habitual process quickly. This can help for a child with neurological deficits, too, because if need be you can use the tape forever.

The other thing to keep in mind with learning new routines is to keep directions concrete and short. Only give one step at a time, and keep it short! They won't hear past the first few words and you'll both end up frustrated. It may seem silly, but when you remember that children who've had the trauma of a move to a new home often have difficulties with processing directions, particularly if given too many at a time, it makes sense. Even if they are 15 and should be able to do it. Start small and work up to where they plateau. Since your little girls are 5 and 3 they most likely won't go past the one directive at a time for a while.

I'm sure you will be working with your pediatrician and other professionals to address their various needs, so I'm not going to try to guess what would work for each situation. (LOL!!) This routine business is just something that we've found works well to give a stable base to jump off from. It won't be a magic bullet, but it helps in that you will be able to let any dr's or therapists know that you've got this going to start with.

As to discipline, be consistant. Always keep in mind that the word "discipline" is not synonymous with "punishment"! Discipline is training -- so routines are a discipline that we train ourselves to maintain. Rules are what we discipline ourselves to follow. With the 5 yo you may be able to sit down and say, "If you hit someone the consequence is that you will have a timeout (or whatever)." You can keep a chart (kids need things to be concrete) and when she hits someone, go to the chart which lists infractions and consequences, and say, "This is what you did, this is the consequence." Again, it's hard to argue with the paper, and it is concrete. This type of chart can also be kept for when they do the right thing. "Oh, look Janey!! You got up without complaining when I called you!! Let's see what our chart says about that." You can get creative with rewards, but don't get elaborate. Keep it simple and the kids will appreciate it more. (homemade coupons for extra stories at bedtime, etc.)

Ok, I've nattered on for too long, but you get the idea. Keeping things as routine as possible, in a concrete and simple way, works well with the types of issues most children deal with in daily life. Whether they are foster children or not! LOL

[lucyjoy]

When my son use to talk back or argue, I would say simply "what did I say?" let them repeat it, then say "good" and move on with whatever I was doing.

Children with too many accidents get time in. "I'm sorry your having so much trouble, lucky for you, I will let you stay right here with me so I can help you avoid those accidents.

I also think the routine is a good idea. My 6 year old gets up, dressed, and cleans his room before breakfast every morning.
(He does this on his own now that he's use to the routine).

I believe being consistant with the rules, but varing the consequences for children who are openly diffiant. This prevents them from weighing wether smacking their brother is worth the consequence. Natural consequences are always best. (Foster Cline, Parenting with love and logic)

When smaller kids become aggressive, I always pick them up and rock them. A lot of times they're feeling very insecure and can't express that well. They are sometimes resistant to being held, but the eventual calmness usually lasts several hours.

[Dr. Art]

I think you've got some wonderful suggestions here...the very things I'd suggest to parents with whom I work, so I won't bother repeating anything.

I would like to underscore the point that discipline is NOT about punishment. Punishment is about retribution, discipline is to teach and often involves natural consequences (see Foster Cline's excellent book, Parenting Children with Love and Logic). So, it does NOT matter if the consequences are liked or not by the child. If a child (with attachment problems) wastes your time, having the child do a chore you were going to do so that you are not angry about the wasted time is a good consequence. It does not matter if the child likes or does not like the chore.

What helps children heal is maintaing a healing PLACE (being playful, loving, acceping, curious, and empathic). The structure provides safety and security so that the loving gets in, so to speak.

Regards

[louise]

IMO!

We still use "routine" with all of our children, but especially those that came home later and have issues around attachment and predictability.

[Lilathe]

One thing we found that works very well with hitting and like a dream on biting....

When the five year old hits someone, totally ignore the fact that she hit. (the whole family has to be in on this.) Everyone goes to the hurt child and hugs and kisses them, pats and loves on them etc. All of the attention is given to the hurt child and absolutely no attention to the child that did the hurting.

Within a couple of days the aggressive child will start coming to hug and pat on the hurt child. (hopefully developing empathy). Within one week the aggressiveness "should" start to diminish. I find it helpful to keep a chart just for myself, not that the aggressive child can see,( because that would be attention for inappropriate behavior.) I tried everything to stop a child from biting, then a day care provider told me to try this. After 9 months of biting, this stopped the behavior within 2 weeks.

It also depends on the severity of the aggression, if the other children are actually in danger of being hurt then the aggressive child would have to loose the priviledge of playing with the other children. Playing with others is a priviledge not a right. Sometimes the priviledge has to be earned through short term play periods with others.

"you can play with the other children for 15 minutes now. If you do not hurt anyone you can play for another 15 minutes after dinner" Gradually increasing the amount of time the child can spend with the other children if he/she shows they can keep themselves under control. The short time frames give the aggressive child a chance to be "successful" at play and be praised for not hitting or hurting another child.

[dadfor2]

rountine, routine, rountine....i cant tell how much that has helped. My childs bedtime routine takes about 45 min to an hour. but you know what.....no more tantrums before bedtime.

plus, we have a chart now, its real simple, we decided what were the biggest issues, for instance, getting cleaned up in the morning....and so on.....it was very concrete. When he did the clean up, he gets a star. we only reward the good behavior. every morning, we reflect on the day before (part of our morning routine) and then we talk about the stars he did receive and brush on quickly why he didnt get a star in that box. I find the positive for our child works better.

keep it real simple, and concrete. it seems to be working. also, rome wasnt built in a day, they will test, they will fight, but be consistant with everything, if you say "you wont get a star if you dont come with me and clean up on the count of three" you cant give the star if they come on 10.

for us, he just needs to feel safe and in order for him to feel that way, he needs to know that we are consistant....

im no professional, but this has worked with us...two steps forward, one step back..as long as were going in the write direction, we cant ask for anything more i guess....well, just maybe a deep breath now and then.

dadfor2

[Havyn]

With my birth daughters (who are both very opinionated and headstrong) I found the book "The Defiant Child; A Parent's guide to Oppositional Defiant Behavior" by Dr. Douglas A. Riley to be a God-send. I originally had checked it out of the library, but after reading it and using the suggestions from the book, I have now bought it and keep it handy to refresh my memory from time to time. It took very little time for my oldest daughter (10 years old) to figure out that Mom meant business this time and you wouldn't believe the difference! I really highly recommend it!

[tralynrn]

You've gotten some great advice from others. I just wanted to let you know that some children act that way even if they were taught how to do things. My husband and I have had our daughter since she left the hospital at 2 months. We have raised three great boys-two in college, one in 8th grade.I'm a RN with years of pediatric and child psychiatric experiance. We had been foster parents for years. If I were to get my 5 year old daughter now---I would have said she had to have come from the most chaotic,unstructured,abusive home with no rules,boundries etc. She is defiant,delayed,aggressive,hyper etc.. We love her to bits but boy has she shown us a thing or two. Her manners are awful,her mouth is awful. Drs have labeled her everything from possible FAS to bi-polar. She has always had love, attention,routine,calm parents,as much consistency as possible etc. Her birth mom is alot like our little girl as is some of her birth siblings. Who knows why. The good part is: we love her and in between her behaviers is a loving ,happy little girl. Tralyn

[po]

The toilet paper remark touched home. We have a 7 yr fd. She also had not been taught to use toilet paper. We had the talk about using it when I became aware of dark streaks in the underwear which did not take long. Now this girl had been in foster care last year and the cw told me she would touch herself. Sure she did. She was dirty from not using toilet paper and it itched. Then she went to the other extreme and used half a roll at a time. Thank goodness she did not put it in the toilet, but in the garbage can. I noticed it was not dirty so we had another lesson. We got it out and torn it into 4 sq. pieces and folded it neatly. This was what she had to use. It lasted a week, then she got her roll of toilet paper back and no more problems. She also does not always play good with other kids. I informed her I do not have to let her play it is a priviledge and she is sent into another part of the house when the priviledge is abused. The teacher started isolating her also. This is working. We have found out that she is bipolar also. before she comes out of her room in the morning she must make her bed, pick up her clothes, close her drawers. Her hair must be combed and she had to be dressed to have breakfast. Then the teeth get brushed. She is finally doing these things without so much reminding. You have to be consistent.

[Kellster]

Hi,

Although I am not a fan of "pop-psych" books, I have found an excellent book called "How to talk so kids will listen and listent so kids will talk" by Adele Faber and Elains Mazlish. The same authors wrote another excellent parenting book called "Siblings without rivalry". Both are excellent resources for parents.

[ljb]

I have been a foster parent for five years, a parent for 28 years, and we have adopted five daughters. I am so laughing at the email where the woman adopted two daughters, now 3 & 5. She couldn't believe that the foster parent potty trained the girls and didn't teach them to wipe. First of all, please be grateful that they are potty trained. You are very lucky. Second of all, I guess I laughed so hard because I am having the wiping problem too, however, our daughter is 4 and 1/2 and we have had her since she was three days old. Have I not taught her to wipe? Of course I have! It is a constant reminder with her. The only thing that I can figure out is that she hates to take time away from playing and so she rushes in to use the bathroom and rushes back. She is also a very active child. I'm glad to say that it is only when she goes pee that we have the problem.