[arkansas parent]

What are the symtoms, how is it diagnosed and treated?

[kretzklan]

I think others have this dx...but I asked about it last visit to pdoc. He said it is so tied in to RAD, that it's nearly impossible to dx if the child has RAD. Beyond that, there aren't actual meds for ODD...of course there are meds for the side effects of ODD...or for similiar issues. It sounded to me like my doc (at least) doesn't feel the dx is important since there isn't a lot of treatment for it!

[cynthia900]

Here is an abstract that discusses it. If this is helpful I can probably dig the whole paper up.

Psychopharmacological treatment of oppositional defiant disorder

[arkansas parent]

We brought the ADHD check list back to T's doctor today. She said his scores are too low to be ADHD. She said most kids with ADHD have scores of 20 start across, but T only had one 20 and one 15, the rest where rather low. She said she is leaning more toward him having some kind of anxiety disorder or anger issues. She then mentioned ODD. She is going to try again to get the therapist to contact us (she called them 2 weeks ago but they never contacted me). The doctor told me I could give him adult dose of omega 3 (the only kind around here for kids is only 120mg). So I went and bought 2 big bottles. Iknow it is not a cure all pill, but I hope it helps improve his behaviors. (When I told DD about the benifits of omega 3 she said she wants to start taking them too, good thing I bought plenty)

[Perfect7]

Our whole family takes Omega 3 and it really, really helps dd with bipolar stay more mellow.

[stevenstwin]

Our FS came with a diagnosis of ODD. He certainly displayed the behaviour - always irritating others, very irritated BY others, argues with everything at the drop of a hit - initial first reaction is always to say "no", etc. Now, we later discovered he was also RAD, and he'd previously been diagnosed ADHD, so it is really hard to figure out what was what. The medication that made all the difference for him was Risperdal, but I also had to really learn stratgies. Now I'm teaching a kid diagnosed ADHD and ODD - he isn't on any medication, but my same strategies also work very well with him. Just simple stuff like making a request and then walking away - leaving no one to argue with (both will usually grumble and mutter, then comply). Or instead of saying "Please unload the dishwasher" phrase it as "We'll have dessert after you unload the dishwasher". Basically never phrase as a question or leave any room for argument. You don't negotiate or discuss with an ODD kid. Works okay for bigger discipline, too. When Austin ignored repeated requests to keep his electronics (tv, music ,e tc) at a reasonable volume, we simply cut off the electricity to his room with no comment or discussion. Nothing to "argue" with us about!

[arkansas parent]

I'm not sure he fits ODD. He argues like crazy but all I have to do is tell him to "zip it" and he stops (but is clearly angry about it). He never tell me no or refuses to do something I have told him to do. He use to try it but learned very fast I will not put up with it. He does stall and/or get furstrated. I need to work harder at not asking so many questions. When I do he argues and lies (99% of the time when he argues he lies).
He just seems to get angry and frustrated easily. For example ,yesterday when he was eating breakfast his bread kept touching his chin. And instead of holding the bread different he to mad. I asked him who he was mad at and he said the bread . I told him the bread didn't do anything to him he just needed to hold it different. He gets frustrated if he puts his shoes on the wrong feet, or his pencil lead breaks, or his blanket isn't right, if his food is hot, etc. He gets frustrated with the object not himself .

He is forever interupting other peoples conversations. And most of the time he has no clue what we are talking about.

[greenrobin]

In my limited experience, ODD cannot zip itself. It feels compelled to continue to escalate in an out of proportion way to the significance of the event. Hence, bread touching the chin would end with him flinging his bread at something and then snorting around looking for a fight. Physically. Nothing but blind rage.

And that was my bio son.

He still does it, just not here. He's also dealing with bipolar and ADHD and depression. When he was medicated, things went much, much better. Now that he's all grown up, he says medication is a crutch, so he doesn't use it any more..................

Has your son been evaluated for depression or ADHD or anything else? It took 2 doctors and several years before N was diagnosed and properly medicated, but it really helped him once we had the whole drug cocktail thing figured out.

[arkansas parent]

Originally Posted by greenrobin

Has your son been evaluated for depression or ADHD or anything else? It took 2 doctors and several years before N was diagnosed and properly medicated, but it really helped him once we had the whole drug cocktail thing figured out.

We just started trying to figure out what is going on. The doctor really doesn't think it its ADHD. She wants him to see a phychiatrist. I am kinda on the fence about it. I can't help but wonder if it is just "T"'s personality. He really is a good kid most of the time. And his anger isn't anything major (no hitting, fighting, tantrums,or breaking things). But then again I want to make sure nothing else is going on.
He has improved with every school year. Do kids with ODD get better with age or worse? (like I said before his doctor just mentioned ODD along with some other possible things, but she is not an expert on the subject)

[greenrobin]

ODD isn't something that my son has outgrown, but he has learned that life consequences (like getting fired) will be pretty harsh. He's capable of controlling when he lets it loose, but not entirely. That probably explains his employment record!

Why on the fence? If your son had symptoms like excessive thirst, stomach aches and rapidly losing weight, and you thought, "Hmmm, reminds me of diabetes," would you also consider not having him evaluated because he might have to take insulin? Of course not! Mental health issues are the same. Sometimes there is medication that can help with the symptoms. Sometimes there are lifestyle changes that can ease some of the problems. Either way, you come out ahead.

And, if this is just T's personality style, then you'll be able to quit worrying about it and enjoy your son. Win-win.

[arkansas parent]

I am on the fence for several reasons. Like what if I make him feel like there is something wrong with him (and there isn't), what if I am just expecting to much of him, what if we get some quack phychiatrist (It is slim picking in our area). His doctor already warned me that phychiatrist often dope kids up way to much.

If you can't tell I second guess myself A LOT.

[greenrobin]

Oh, I fully understand the quack issue! But, in my son's case, the problem wasn't too many drugs, it was not enough. The first one had....umm........issues that he was playing out through his male patients. The second one, however, was awesome. We began a slllllooooowwww progression of medications until we got the optimal mix.

The first one? I got up one day, walked out of his office and never came back. Total quack. The second? I trust him with my son's life.

I'm a second-guesser, too.

You can always refuse medication, ask for a second opinion (for which you might have to travel) or just stop treatment. In our experience, it took a few visits to get down to what meds to prescribe, even with the quack. Whoever you end up seeing, just ask around. People know if this is a pill pusher or a careful doctor.

[aspenhall]

Tell the person to do something...anything...even stuff they like to do...They will do the opposite EVERY TIME. That's how you diagnose ODD.

If it happens at home only it's more likely RAD, if it happens at school it's more likely ODD.

It sounds like your son has some sort of anxiety issue or even some level of FAE and the like. The lack of logical thought processing is a big flag. He can't problem solve very well I bet, and he has to do things a certain way or no way (control issue). Have you looked into the autism spectrum stuff? Rigid patterns of behavior and ways of doing things is a clue. Inability to adjust to alternative methods etc....