[Indy]

Talk about a convoluted "verses" line! I have researched, visited counselors, and watched video on more specifically co-dependency. While doing my soul searching and learning, I determined that this field is full of people with "belly buttons" too! By that, I mean that "opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one"!

I cannot get a straight answer from any of the so called experts as to what is the difference between an active parent and a person who has some tendency to be co-dependent! While doing my co-dependent study, some of that material alluded to the person being an enabler. BS! That sounds like it was written by someone who was an addict looking for someone else to blame. That counselor blamed the co-dependent for the addict's problem. That was one video that was a waste of time.

So...what am I trying to say? I disagree with the counselor's observation that I may be co-dependent.

-In that, I care about my sons...but do not base my self worth on their success or failure.

-I do not fear being rejected by my sons...a couple of them have done that from time to time.

-I don't have difficulty expressing my feelings or thoughts.

-My internal sense of who I am is based on a "higher" power and not on my sons.

-I definitely don't ignore my own values or attempt to adhere to the values of others lower than mine.

Yes, I have adopted 10 sons...but that does not mean I did it to "save" the world...or get the "look at me" award. I didn't do it to be a martyr (poor little me), as I don't share a lot with others about what goes on in our world. I am sure our story would make a great TV program...better than the drama soap of "Jon and Kate"!

I base my belief on the fact that the drug/alcohol counselor that made the observation only saw me with V twice in the last year for a total of 2 hours. Her observation was based on not knowing anything of the family dynamics or past history. Her opinion was a "belly button"

I also spoke with the psychologist that has worked with the boys and I for 8 years now. She started laughing when I told her what the counselor said. She asked me if the counselor did co-dependency counseling...."why yes she does, why would you ask?" was my response. The doctor explained to me that she does not believe that I am not co-dependent and why. She said the feelings I experienced were more about depression than being co-dependent. She said that even though my sons struggle, they are surviving...and that is success for children like mine who went through the foster care system. It is normal for a parent to worry about a child, especially when their lives in falling apart.

I am at least aware that there is a thing called co-dependency and will be on guard of it. I found these controversies on wikapedia very interesting!

"Caring for an individual with a physical addiction is not synonymous with pathology. To name the caregiver as a co- alcoholic responsible for the endurance of their partner's alcoholism for example, pathologizes caring behaviour. The caregiver may only require assertiveness training skills and the addict accountability in taking responsibility for managing their addiction, or not.

Not all mental health professionals agree about codependence or its standard methods of treatment. It is not listed in the DSM-IV-TR diagnostic manual. Stan Katz & Liu, in "The Codependency Conspiracy: How to Break the Recovery Habit and Take Charge of Your Life," feel that codependence is over-diagnosed, and that many people who could be helped with shorter-term treatments instead become dependent on long-term self-help programs.

Some believe that codependency is not a negative trait, and does not need to be treated, as it is more likely a healthy personality trait taken to excess. Codependency in nonclinical populations has some links with favorable characteristics of family functioning.

The language of symptoms of and treatment for codependence derive from the medical model suggesting a disease process underlies the behaviour. There is no evidence that codependence is caused by a disease process, communicable or otherwise.

Some frequent users of the concept codependency use the word as an alternative to use the concept dysfunctional families, without statements that classify it is a disease.

Not everything promoted by recovery agencies is a demonstrable scientific fact, some of it is based on fashion and faith alone.

People who have experienced natural disasters, life threatening illness or accident, and personal and community tragedy have been found to perceive a benefit from the ordeal such as positive personality changes, changes in priorities and enhanced family relationships. Caring for survivors serves a worthwhile ethic of empowerment - both for the caregiver and the survivors."

I think all of us SN parents can see ourselves in the last one!

If you got all the way here...you did well!

[crick]

I didn't realize how much that comment bothered you. Seems like it did now that I've read the above and all the research and self observance you have put into it. I'm glad you've been able to come to a place where you feel good about things.

I think there are levels of co dependency that are harmful, but it is kind of a strange thing because as a family/friends you do need to depend on others a bit and also have others depend on you. kwim?

Tell belly button girl she can pierce it.

[zebramom]

Indy - Your post is something I have been struggling with for the past several weeks. I had an "AH HA" moment a few weeks ago. I realized that I am teaching my son how to be an abuser. He lashes out at me and I stick around and come back for more. We have repeated this cycle so many times over the last few years.

I feel that we have changed from active and involved parents, to something I don't like. He is not learning anything and is increasing his behaviors. We have a meeting with one of his social workers today because I am unhappy with several things going on right now. I pulled up his grades last night and he's failing 3 of the 4 classes that have posted grades, has skipped school or been "ill" all week and send text messages to my husband on his "new" phone that he's not supposed to have and his foster parents don't know about.

He is not learning, growing, changing, or anything else that would even indicate any type of forward momentum. He has manipulated masterfully and those involved in his case think we are nuts (yes we are, but not for the reasons they think) and he is getting "sicker."

I have been trying to figure out which category I fit into. It's not going to be enabler anymore! However, you have brought up a good point of where is the line and when is it crossed??!? I don't know and sure wish someone had the easy answers for us all.

[DreamingAzure]

I'm just a lurker here, but your post reminded me of what one of my favorite professors said about "co-dependency" I loved it so much that I had it posted on my bathroom mirror for years after struggling to deal with my "co-dependency" issues(which I didn't really have!)

"Co-dependency is an American construct which is slowly filtering into other English speaking/western European countries. You will find that in most countries and cultures what pop psychology calls 'co-dependency' is called 'FAMILY'."

[Barksum]

Indy, I did hear and contemplate what you wrote about the counselor saying you needed to check into co-dependency stuff. (Since you wrote it I guess I didn't "hear" it, but I did take it to heart! ) I did a teeny bit of reading on it and discussed it with Dh. Dh just sighed heavily and said something along the lines of, "Honey, we're training the kids and providing the family structure they need." Since at that point one of the kids had been staring into space for the last 5 minutes while claiming to empty the dishwasher, two of the others were "looking" at each other and about to come to blows over that, one was upstairs studying (aka listening to the stereo) and the last one was in the bathroom clogging the toilet because they were demonstrating that they could 'wipe well' on their own - I figured he probably had a point.

[lucyjoy]

Glad you did some more research cause the arm chair psychologists here thought you were misdiagnosed.

From reading the material it made it sound like anyone who had any compassion for anyone was co-dependent.

But, even if the diagnosis was off, I think it's good sometimes for all of us to step back and take a different look at what were doing so we can decide if we need to change or keep doing what we're doing.