[jenf]

I feel very bad- I know what you are going through! Your son sounds exactly like mine- I foster him since age 2 1/2, adopted him two years later. He threatened to kill me daily starting at age 3. By age four we had to have him admitted to a mental hospital for two weeks. He destroyed everything he could in our home, threw food (bowl and all) at me, was violent toward his brother- stuck a screwdriver down his throat, pushed him down flights of steps, etc, etc. I could not leave the baby alone for one minute, even took him to the bathroom with me and he slept in my room at night. He destroyed our computer, tv, grandfather clock, fax machine, I could go on and on. However, today my son is 7-he has totally changed- happy, healthy, and a completely different child. What did I do? I read every book I could on RAD. I insisted on wrap around services so I had help in the home every day. If a therapist didn't make any progress, I called their office, told them to send someone else, until I found someone that clicked with him. I rocked him, sang to him, and played baby games- peek a boo, hide and seek, etc. Things he had missed out on in his baby years. And, I started him on valerian- it is an herbal calming agent. Where meds hadn't done him any good, this did, and still does calm him down. The tantrums are gone, he is a much calmer child. I know he will always have some issues, due to the drug and alcohol use of biomom, plus his first couple of years of neglect and abuse, but he has come such a long way. There were many times I just wanted to give him up, but I'm glad I didn't. I think the younger the child, the more chance of changing the negative behaviors. It can be done, my son is proof.

[aMarylandfamily]

I was glad to see your notation that you will take all comments - good or bad. Please know no-one here is attempting to judge or make accusations. This board has a whirlwind of advice and experience and everyone who posts - in whichever direction their post runs - offers you advice, knowlege and caring!

[Linny]

Soultea,
We have been in VERY similar situations as you. In our state, the subsidy DID go with the child. Subsidies that are granted with a foster child must go with the child as per a federal law. (Believe me, it's law.)
In one case, the system DID NOT give all lawful information about the older child we'd adopted. We obtained a huge stack of paperwork (with the dept's stamp/date/caseworker on every page) AFTER the adoption had been finalized and we'd gone through many different types of therapies to help the child. (Play, conventional and attachment) Had we been given this vital information (dangerous at a very young age; extremely violent and unpredictable).......we would have known the child was FAR over our heads in what we felt we could handle.
We were also told by a caseworker when we cried out we 'feel there's something VERY wrong here'--- that residential wouldn't be something 'we could live with'. Phooey on that. As my dh said, 'We also couldn't deal with attending a funeral for one of the other kids!"

We've BTDT more than once...and were never charged because the judges and professionals/psychiatrists all saw what we did: A dangerous, unpredicatable individual who was not only harmful to himself, but to others as well (in and out of the home). It is important to find an excellent attorney (which we did) and to have thoroughly exhausted all resources. (However, wrap around services couldn't have even begun to supervise our child enough to assure safety to any other children.)

In addition, there are agencies and other adoption entities who can find licensed/clearanced, appropriate homes for children such as the one you're living with now. It is possible to find a home where the danger your child may present won't greatly affect others. There are children who should NOT be placed with other children in a home setting; and there are children who are so damaged, they cannot be 'fixed', regardless of therapies, attachment or otherwise. BTDT

Consider this as well: Even if you 'keep' a dangerous child in your home---should something happen with any other child/ren because of this dangerous child....your family can also be charged with 'failure to protect'....stating you were not diligent enough to supervise the safety of your innocent children.

Caseworkers will often tell you 'you'll be charged'...and sometimes, this may happen. However, this is NOT a 'given' when dealing with children who pose a threat of harm to others in and out of the home. In some cases, is IS possible to relinquish the parental rights of a child w/o being charged. We've BTDT.

Please feel free to pm me.

Sincerely,

Linny

[Again!]

Actually in Texas it is a given, you will be charged. Both I and my attorney did a lot of research as I was going through this and there is no way around that.

[mumofone]

Wow, that is a harsh law. Isn't it better to disrupt an adoption and find a new home for a child rather than risk him/her hurting someone else or having a parent, at their wits end, lose their cool and harm the child?

People are able to voluntarily place their child for adoption here through our public agency. When we initially started the adoption process, we were offered a sibling set of two children whose mom voluntarily placed them into permanent care of the agency because she just couldn't parent and she wanted what was best for her children.

[lucyjoy]

If you do a private adoption rather then a return to the state, there should be no charges. Also, I've had lawyers tell me things can or cannot be done-I find lawyers who are willing to make things happen.

[Linny]

I find lawyers who are willing to make things happen. --lucyjoy

Amen.

---Linny

[soultea]

I just wanted to thank you all for all your help and advice. I really do appericate all comments good or bad.

If you do a private adoption rather then a return to the state, there should be no charges. Also, I've had lawyers tell me things can or cannot be done-I find lawyers who are willing to make things happen.

I just can't believe you can do the re-adopt??!!!???

[Linny]

Well yeah.....people do this more often than you'd think. I'm not advocating for re-adoption...or whatever term people want to call it; nor do I think it can/should be done lightly. BUT, the majority of people I read about......read on websites about...who've BTDT....do so because there IS no other way to help the child...OR keep the rest of their family safe.

For instance, how do you keep a sexual predator from assaulting other children in the home...given that the sexual predator is one of adopted children in the home? When there is no remorse and testing shows the offender will offend again---what do you do? How do you keep the other younger children safe when the RAD child has already tried to kill other children---despite attachment therapies, despite respite services? How do you keep the REST of the family safe when the RAD child has already shown they'll stab the mother with a knife and threatens to do so again?

I've said this before and will now again......these are the stories no one wants to acknowledge when discussing adoption; but they ARE the situations others hear/read about and say how 'awful' re-adoption is; but when they walk out of the funeral home or the psych ward, or foster home, they'll say to themselves, "Thank God, *I* don't have to deal with THAT--because I couldn't !"

Sincerely,

Linny

[mommytoEli]

Originally Posted by lucyjoy

The subsidy does not follow the child. However, the new parents can petition for subsidy once the child is placed. Also, it matters if the subsidy was title iv-e or not.

we were told that no matter where the children went, i.e. a different placement, the subsidy would follow bc it was their subsidy, not mine. so i would check on that.

[JackieN]

Originally Posted by mommytoEli

we were told that no matter where the children went, i.e. a different placement, the subsidy would follow bc it was their subsidy, not mine. so i would check on that.

This question came up when my sister was in the process of adopting her two children and as it was explained to her, the type of subsidy the child receives determines whether or not it follows them. If they receive a federal subsidy under Title IV-E, then it will follow them wherever they go. However, to qualify under Title IV-E, the child's birth family must have met income requirements (i.e. been on AFDC or welfare) at the time the child entered the system. My sister's children did not meet that qualification, so the subsidy that she receives will not follow the children if they are later adopted by someone else.

This was a primary concern of hers because she wanted me to raise the children if something were to happen to her. At the time, I had very little income and she was concerned I wouldn't be able to afford to raise two children without the adoption subsidy. My sister even asked the social worker if I would be able to re-apply for the subsidy and the answer was "no" because I would not be adopting them out of foster care! We later found out that the children would be able to collect off her social security account if she died or became disabled and that is more than the subsidy anyway so it became a non-issue.

It totally makes no sense that the child's birth family's income should enter the equation considering they aren't the ones raising the child, but as it was explained to my sister, that's the way it is.

[Barksum]

One child of mine qualified for Title IV-E, (birth fam met req's) but doesn't have it because the original cw with CPS didn't do the paperwork in the correct way the first time it was filed. Simple thing - have the cw go fix it and refile, right? Nope. Done deal, no do-overs.

[athikers]

Interesting Barki... because our son was listed as not eligible and they changed his eligibility when we brought him home.

[Barksum]

Yes, Ath. I thought it was 'interesting'. We still get subsidy, but I think it might get more complex if we were to move out of state. I'm not worried about it, and I kind of get the impression that if we'd made a big fuss at the time of the adoption we might have been able to have it worked out, but we didn't so it wasn't.

[tybeemarie]

I have not done research on this issue, but I will say many issues come down to state law, and this could account for people's different experiences.

I also wanted to say how sorry I am that you are in this stressful situation. We adopted a sibing group of 3 children with RAD, and it has been quite a journey. I cannot IMAGINE doing this with an infant in the house. Line of sight supervision is hard enough as it is without that level of danger. My experience raising my kids actually made me grateful for my infertility, in a way. It would be FAR easier to have biological children, and it is really too bad my husband and I cannot have that experience. But, if you are going to raise disturbed children, I think doing so without having to contemplate the huge burden it can be on healthy siblings is a plus. Again, the idea of having to keep an infant safe with line of sight supervision is just staggering to me.

I have three kids, as I said. All are doing better than they were when they came. Two are attached, in fact. But one has an avoidant attachment, and raising her is hard and stands to get much harder. It's true that kids with attachment disorder can heal. It's also true that not all kids do, not even with excellent therapeutic care.

The social workers who came to our home were amazed we didn't disrupt. Many people in our position would have. Not because they would view children as sweaters to be returned, not because they wouldn't try. I think very few people treat dissolution and disruption lightly. Why do these things happen? Sometimes, despite their yearnings and dreams and efforts, people find out that therapeutic parenting of this level is not for everyone, and that they fall into the "not for everyone" category. Sometimes, they ARE therapeutic parents, but they learn that the child's disability exceeds their family's capacity. Or, as in this case, the physical risk of keeping the child in the home is too great. There are some children who are too badly damaged to exist in a family setting, as tragic as that is.

I would recommend reading "Can This Child Be Saved?" by Foster Cline so you can see that although you feel as if you are alone in this, there are others who have suffered as you and your family have.

There are a lot of tragedies in the lack of information in the child welfare system. There is grossly inadequate training of foster parents. There are also gross inadequacies in the assessment and diagnosis and treatment of foster children. I think a lot of times when adoptive parents are shocked by their child's undisclosed special needs, it's not because DCFS is actively trying to deceive them, to conceal information they had all along. I think most of the time DCFS does not bother to even gather this information for themselves!

I think honesty is very important. Although I must admit, few rational people would proceed if they knew exactly how torturous this can be. Still, I fall on the side of more information is good.

I hope you find the support you need in this difficult time.