[atouchofheaven]

when did you know something was wrong? when did he/she get diagnosed? what were the signs and did they have them at a young age?

[stevenstwin]

Originally Posted by atouchofheaven

when did you know something was wrong when did he/she get diagnosed? what were the signs and did they have them at a young age?

Second hand information here, but I have a cousin that is bi-polar. I'm much older than her - more of an age with my aunt- so I've been there through the whole Saga. I think she showed signs very young, but she wasn't diagnosed until her early teens. As a young child, we thought she was "hyper" and had "mood swings". We'd seen excessively chatty, running around like mad kind of behaviour, but she also seemed sad and angry a lot. And of course since kids often rapid-cycle, it could be very much moment-to-moment. We weren't very enlightened, so we thought it was just her "intense" personality. In her early teens, though, she got worse - and what really forced the diagnosis was her RECKLESS behaviour. By 13 she was sneaking out of the house in the middle of the night to go for "walks", with the consequence that she was raped in a public park by an older teenage boy (and here I should say that she SAYS this happened to her - but she didn't say so until months later. Her parents toally believe her, but I'm not sure that I do, since she has a history of telling outrageous stories for attention. This is a view I have obviously kept to myself!). At 14 she got arrested for ripping off another girl's pants on a public bus. Of course she also had periods of deep depression and anger. She started cutting herself. They had a tough time getting therapy and meds that were effective, but she's 22 now and doing quite well - happily married with a good job. I just always wonder if she might have had a much better teen-age experience if we'd figured out what was going on when she was younger.

[aMarylandfamily]

Most professionals will not label your child bi-polar until they are in their early teens and then they often refer to it as "onset bi-polar" hoping to remove such diagnosis at a point. The tendencies can show at a very early age - although they do mimic and overlap ADD and ADHD ... a sign of it being the more serious if the ordinary medications to assist with ADD/ADHD don't produce positive effects and/or a pattern of "cycles" emerge.

Start tracking your child's behavior and see what patterns are occuring - including the lows and the highs - some individuals cycle continuously - others once a day and a few only certain times of the year - which is very difficult to maintain a medication regiment as there are times they don't or may not need it. Ask your doctor for a referral to have further needs diagnosed and take one day at a time ... the biggest part is teaching the child (and sometimes if diagnosed early it is better for the child) to manage their bi-polar vs. react to it.

Google Bi-Polar and read all you can on it - there are many facets and the more equipped you are with knowledge the better for you and your child.

And - ask questions here - there are alot of posters who have or have dealt with bi-polar, schitzo-effect (bi-polar combined with schitzophrenia) and more and again all the knowledge and hands on experience you can refer to to assist with your situation the better you will cope as a parent.

Hugs.

[stevenstwin]

Originally Posted by aMarylandfamily

Most professionals will not label your child bi-polar until they are in their early teens and then they often refer to it as "onset bi-polar" hoping to remove such diagnosis at a point. .

I didn't know that! My aunt told me recently that W's doctor says she "doesn't have it anymore" and I thought that was really weird. I assumed if you were diagnosed bi-polar it was a life long thing and that she was being naive.

[aMarylandfamily]

... can be worse than having a murder charge in your history as it states "unstable" and if often scary to anyone not understanding its cycles especially a potential employer - you never see a news report of a criminal having diabetes but have bi-polar and it becomes a major stance in the cause for the crime!

If the word "onset" is used - they can say that the tendencies and symptoms were representing themselves but didn't lay out exactly thus protecting the patient which is good from one standpoint as long as the patient understands it 100% knowing when and where to get help if and more importantly when needed. It doesn't necessarily go away - it just becomes managed and controlled.

[kretzklan]

I am bi-polar and would swear that my DD will eventually get that dianosis as well. Rapid cycling is really quite normal in kids. I know that I had it at a young age. For me it manifested in a need to do something RIGHT NOW. I had no impulse control...then the next hour I could sit in one place and just stare at a wall - that was my depression. I ended up being diagnosed as OCD in college - but my doc now thinks the OCD tendencies were part of my manias. During mania I am obsessive - organizing things that don't need it...cleaning out already clean things. My brain has always (back to being very young) needed that order during the high times.
It is true that most docs will not diagnose bi-polar until late teens. There just really aren't any meds that are approved for use in kids to treat bi-polar specifically. My DD is being treated for generalized anxiety disorder - but I see so much of me in her - the cycling...the crazy reactions that don't align. Especially now that I'm medicated and on something that lets me stay me - but calms my cycles...I can see it in her. I won't let it go as long as mine went without treatment.

[lucyjoy]

I have a few with bi-polar. The one consistant thing withall of mine from early on was that they rarely slept. 4 hours at a time normally. Some skip sleeping completely for a few nights an then will crash for 24-48hours.

[Perfect7]

Me me me! Looking back, my daughter always showed signs from infancy but she was diagnosed as having a "mood disorder" at 5 and placed on lamictal. They wanted to call it ADD but Concerta was like throwing gas on a fire. It took months of journaling for me to convince the "specialists" that it wasn't ADD and something else was going on. Let me list the signs she had from early on:
*constant eating of snacks and sneaking into the pantry LATE at night to get them.
*Would stay up until 2-3 am, making her mood worse.
*Extreme temper tantrums lasting over an hour.
*Couldn't keep a babysitter, and grandparents forbid her to come over anymore without us.
*Night terrors that woke me up thinking someone was murdering her. This was around a year old.
*Severe seperation anxiety. She couldn't stay anywhere for long without mama.
*In kindergarden, she refused to do any work even though she was intelligent.
*In kindergarten they wanted to retain her (I refused, knowing it would get worse).
*She had no friends and fought non-stop with anyone and everyone.
*She would cry of mundane issues, like a leaf she had found in the yard had a crack in it.
*She would then rapidly cycle into "I love you so much!" and was giddy. Seconds later she would explode into rage.
*In first grade she threatened to grab her teacher by the hair and drag her down the hallway. They suspended her (this while on ADD meds).
*Lying on people constantly, then changing her story. It depended on her mood.
*I could tell she was just miserable, and would literally wring her hands while crying and upset. If I asked her what was wrong she exploded. The whole time I would talk to her she would tense her whole body and squirm, not like she was hyper but like severe agitation. It was awful.
*I could tell where she was at any point in time just by listening for the chaos in the house: doors slamming, walls being kicked, yelling, screaming, arguing.
*She would stay up very late in her room doing odd arts and crafts like gluing toilet paper to a stick and then coloring it with fingernail polish (mind in overdrive).
*The lamictal fixed her in two weeks and suddenly she went from suspension and threatened retention with being a straight A student with lots of friends. In 2nd grade she was teachers pet all year.
*We can now ride in the vehicle without yelling and screaming the whole way. Can't tell you how many times we turned around and just went back home.
I LOVE LAMICTAL! It gave me my daughter back and she feels SO much better. She's a happy child and not edgy. She still gets into the manic phases but it's far between episodes and at these moments she just likes to clean (glass) and straighten things up like OCD. Not many outbursts but they are very short lived if at all (normal kid stuff). She will also stay up late during these times and I give her a melatonin to help. Before lamictal, her doctor had her living on benadryl at night to sleep. Not a good solution for the long term.
Family history is the key. There is usually alcoholism, drug addiction, ADHD or depression. My biological father was an alcoholic with a much inflated ego (most likely manic) and my mother fought depression quite a bit.
Hope this helps, and sorry so long.

[greenrobin]

My oldest bio son has bipolar.

Let me restate that: he has a rule out diagnosis of bipolar. Again, no one really wants to label that particular horse. It really, really makes it hard for them when they are grown up and starting careers. I even had a diagnostician whose own daughter was bipolar try to talk me out of having him diagnosed!

N was ADHD from conception. Busy can not even begin to describe it. When he was 8, Jay was born, ejecting N from the baby position in the family. He struggled to figure out his new role. Apparently that stress may have had something to do with the manifestation of the illness.

N became a rager and a rapid cycler. Six hours of screaming, hitting, destruction, etc. was an at least once daily event, sometimes more. He would have these mega fits, so dangerous to self and others that we couldn't think of anything to do with him other than contain him. He would rage until he began crying like his heart was broken, wanting to crawl up into my lap where a few minutes earlier he'd been trying to choke me.

What I didn't know was that he had no memory of the rages. I was constantly angry at him. He didn't know why. That made him angry which would set him off again. It was horrible. We were referred to a quack p-doc who decided we were abusing him. NOT. After arguing with this doofus for a solid year about N needing more than depakote in an anti-seizure sized dose, he threatened us with CPS. I walked out the door and didn't go back.

N's rages grew worse as his body grew bigger. He was dangerous to our family. When he would go off, I'd pack the other kids in the car and leave. He was 14. One night we could not contain him and the neighbors called 911. We were all taken to the hospital--which is what we were trying to do (get him in the car) when the cops showed up. They wanted to cuff him. I cried. At the hospital they separated and questioned dh, N, and me. Our stories were, according to them, remarkably similar, so they let us be with our son. We were referred to the p-doc who saved our lives.

This doc listened. He said my story had the ring of truth. I would have happily kissed that man! He DOUBLED the dose of Depakote. Over time he added other things--1 antipsychotic, 2 antidepressants, and an ADHD drug. After a couple of years, we started weaning N off of things. When he graduated from high school, he was on depakote, lexapro, strattera and concerta.

He finished vo-tech and became a diesel mechanic. He no longer lives at home because he's all grown up. He does not take his meds any more because he hates the quiet in his head....yeah, that's what I thought too! He does self-medicate with alcohol, which scares the living daylights out of me.

Over time the rages diminished. His temper is still volatile. He gets to a point where he literally cannot talk. It's like his amygdala just hijacks ALL of his higher level functions. When he's at that point is when he's at his most dangerous. But, I've learned how to approach him, help be his voice, get him to step down a little until his words return. The problem is that he's no longer a boy and not everyone will know what to do. He's at fight or flight, and for him, it's fight all the way, baby.

Oddly, though, I don't think he's had a true rage in over 4 years. Made stupid decisions, certainly, but no rages.

That's progress.

And here's the thing: I think bipolar might look different in different people. Knowing what N went through might help you recognize it in someone with the same manifestations, but with someone like kretzclan, I wouldn't even know what I was seeing at first. We recently lost a neighbor to suicide when the depression part of his bipolar told him those filthy lies of his worthlessness. N has never been suicidal--homicidal, but not suicidal. People used to laugh when I said that. It was true, just not funny.

If you have someone you suspect is bipolar, please, please, seek out good help. We are currently adopting a little boy with many of the same behaviors that N exhibited at that age. And as N said to me, "You need to take him, mom. Who knows? Maybe if I'd have been able to get help sooner, it would have been better for all of us."

[kretzklan]

I'm on Lamictal (well, the generic) and it's a god send here as well. It's the 14th med I've tried and the only one that struck the right balance.

[Perfect7]

I asked the psychiatrist to try her on lamictal first because I didn't want to have her stuck with blood draws all the time to check levels, and it seemed to have the least amount of side effects. Lucky for us, it worked! It's the difference between "the omen" and "little house on the prairie" ha ha!

[atouchofheaven]

well, people are going to think i'm crazy, but i really think my 3 year old has it (or will have it as he gets older). there is a lot of mental illness in his birth family for one. he's always been challenging since we got him at 15 months. i've known something was off for a long time but couldn't get anyone to believe me since he was so young and almost any 2 year old could fit a psychological disorder. but this was to the extreme. i've never met a kid like him.

i've been to tons of parenting conferences and classes having to do with adoption, behavioral problems, ODD, RAD, ADHD, and everything else. none of the advice offered works with my son. i've read countless books and have even talked to psychologists and counselors. none of their advice worked either. nothing works with this kid to control his behavior challenges.

he has the rages, for hours sometimes. he is aggressive. he has very inconsistent sleep patterns. he is irrational. he is defiant and oppositional. he can't pay attention to anything for more than 5 seconds. he is often irritable and cranky where anything can set him off, even just looking at him.

i have no way to contain him. he won't sit in time-out. i can't lock him in his room because he'll destroy it, throw things (he put a hole in our wall), or smear his poop everywhere. i have to buckle him into his booster seat just to stop him from trying to hurt me or destroy things. but i'm afraid he'll knock the chair over with him in it because he rocks back and forth so hard.

he gets really really hyper and silly and can not calm down to the point where i have to restrain him or almost sit on him to get him to stop.

coping is a huge issue. coping with no. coping with wait. coping with frustration. coping with anger and sadness. this is the majority of our struggles. he has a meltdown from having to wait or not get his way then it escalates and spirals from there.

and sometimes he just does the most bizarre things. things that a "normal" 3 year just doesn't do. he is delayed but in some ways he's so smart. too smart.

what do you think?

i've spent hours now researching child bipolar and it's the only thing that seems to fit him. and it fits him to a tee. i don't know how young they'll treat kids with it, but i just don't know what else to do with him. we're seeing another child psychologist next week and i've already mentioned the idea to her and she didn't hang up on me so i'm hoping for an ally. or at least an open mind. i know there is a lot of controversy among professionals in making this diagnosis, but i also live in the North east and a very progressive area. most of the childhood mental health experts live in or around my state (ironically).

[Perfect7]

It's definately hard, and I remember being there. Our daughter was that way (minus smearing feces). I had even begun to wonder if a babysitter had abused her in some way. My daughter also looked just like ODD in everyway. The good news is, medication does help. I hope you find an open-minded professional. Why don't they listen to the moms? They told us to try an award system and stickers, time outs, etc. Nothing worked because she couldn't control herself no matter what we did. It was impossible. I'd suggest journaling and documenting everything prior to your appointment, then printing it and taking it with you. Our dd is 8, and I'm not looking forward to the teen years with her!

[marykath]

Not to suggest that your son is not bipolar, but have you looked into sensory processing disorder?
We thought a lot about bipolar while struggling with our daughter's behavior as a toddler. We had a lot of the same issues you mention: long rages, agression, sleep issues, attention span. It's so hard! We sought out occuaptional therapy for sensory integration, and it's helped. Not solved the problems, but helped. Just a thought.

[atouchofheaven]

thanks marykath. we have thought of sensory processing and OT. we are in the process of getting him evaluated by an outpatient OT clinic. while i think it could help with the hyperactivity, i don't think it is the full extent of the problems. i've worked with SPD kids and he doesn't fit it entirely. there's definitely more going on. marykath, have you sought out any other diagnosis' or help other than the OT? has she gotten better or worse as she's gotten older? our son seems to be getting worse. that's why i'm a little worried for the future and trying to get as much help as possible now before we're really in crisis and end up in a hospital or something.