[mk317]

I will try not to make this to long, but there is so much to say. I have posted on here before about the hard time we are having with our 4 yr old son we are in the process of adopting from the state. We were not his foster parents first and have had him for almost 8 months now. First, I want to say that I am asking for advice or encouragement. Please do not tell me that we should not adopt this child or that I am not ready for adoption (as I've been told before on here). This little boy is our son and he's been through 6 different placements in 3 1/2 yrs. We have spent the last 8 months telling him that no one will come take him away and that he is a part of this family. He is a child, not a clothing item that you return if it doesn’t fit. I want to help him the best I can and that is why I am posting this. We have two bio girls (11 & 7) and I worked with special needs kids for 5 years and currently teach preschool. It’s not a foreign territory for me and that’s why I feel so helpless.
On that note, we are really struggling with our son and I feel like I am not helping him and possibly making things worse. He's started some concerning habits: stuttering to the point where he's making funny faces trying to get the sound out and he constantly is grabbing his penis (a comfort thing for him). He came to us from a foster family he was with for 9 months and obviously had no structure. We have come a long way and over come a lot of sleeping, eating, and behavior issues. But it seems like as soon as we get through one thing, a new thing pops up. His bio-mom was mentally delayed and I'm worried that he is too. Can they diagnose this at this age? It sounds mean, but I would love for someone to say, "I think he has ______". That way I could figure out how to parent him successfully. Right now he has a ton of behavior issues: breaking rules, lying or denial that he did the thing I watched him do, talking back, annoying others (constantly). No form of discipline has stopped the behaviors. He does the same "bad" things over and over again, every day. It's like he has no concept of right from wrong and feels no guilt or sympathy when does something. You talk to him about it and he says okay and then goes and does it again. A lot of the time I will ask him a question and the response is so random, it concerns me. Or I will say something and he will get all mad and grumpy at me for no reason. Like he really doesn’t understand what I’m saying. Sometimes his answers don’t match up to what he really wants. He’ll say yes, but mean no or say he wants something and when you give it to him, he’ll get all mad about it. There are times when I think, "On no, we're adopting a mentally ill child and I'm not sure I'm cut out for this". I am on him constantly through the day because he is ALWAYS doing something he's not supposed to. He's a lot better behaved for my husband too, which makes it hard, because I feel like everyone thinks I'm too hard on him. But they don't see what I have to deal with all the time. He is constantly annoying me to get my attention and when I ask him to stop, he gets mad and will hit the floor or throw himself on the floor. I want to correct all his wrong behaviors and teach him what is okay, but then I'm told I'm too hard on him. Do I just let him be a bad-behaved child because he's been through a lot? I am a strict parent; I think a child should respect his/her parents and others and do as they are told. I do not think it's okay for a child to run wildly through a store, or touch other people's things, or talk back to a grown up.....is that asking to much? I'm so confused. I feel like I have no control over him and so I'm constantly "on him" about everything trying to get it. Now with the new concerning behaviors, I'm worried I'm not helping him, but making it worse. HELP!!! Am I making any sense?? He does get services for his speech and we have an IFSP review meeting this week. We are also doing some PCIT (Parent Child Interaction Therapy) twice a week, but I don't see any improvements, actually they are getting worse. Also, the issues we have at home, he does not show at school or therapy. I am really tired!!!
Gosh, I guess I really just needed to vent, sorry for this being so long, but I could really use some encouragement.

[lucyjoy]

Because he behaves better for your husband then you, attachment disorder is one thing I'd have him evaluated for. Any idea if mom drank when she was pregnant? Some of the behaviors you describe indicate a possiblity of fetal alcohol. Kids with fetal alcohol have difficulty with short term memory so have to be taught and retaught the same things repeatedly in order to learn them. But, attachment disordered children with traumatic backgrounds also have impaired cause and effect thinking and are often suprised when they are corrected even if they have been corrected for the same behavior 20 times. So, I'd start with an attachment therapist for evaluation.

The odd responses could indicate processing difficuties as well.

Perhaps a neuropsych evaluation would help?

There are a lot of available interventions involving diet changes, neuro and bio feedback, reparenting and attachment parenting ect that may be helpful.

While poor behavior needs to be dealt with, I would approach it with the idea that the behavior comes from his background rather then deliberate defiance. Sometimes, rather then consequencing, coaching is more helpful. If he lies, repeat what he should have said and have him say it back. Then handle the situation as if he'd told the truth on his own. He's missed a lot of what toddlers normally learn and may have some missed brain connections so his he needs to relearn how to do things.

It is very frustrating not knowing what all is going on. I've found that if a journal things such as what was eating, what set him off, what calmed him down etc, I can find patterns that help clear up some things.

Good luck.

[kretzklan]

As I read I kept thinking "attachment, attachment"...two of my children are have attachment disorder and you describe much of their behavior to a tee. Attachment therapy is helping a great deal as is attachment parenting. (although I'm human and don't do it all the time) It's tiring and frustrating and yes, people will constantly tell you that you are too hard on him. I'm a strict parent also and I have not had to change that part of myself - although I've had to 're-train' myself in how to get more of what I want. Many folks here (including me) tend to be leary of situations because of the 'if I'd known then what I know now' syndrome. But, if you go in now (so early) with eyes wide open and catch all this early...you'll be well ahead of me for sure!
And, wanting a diagnosis is not weird...the best day of my life as a parent may well have been the day that XXX said to me "your children have attachment disorder and we can work through it together"...sweet relief to know I wasn't crazy!

[o2b30again]

Both the above posters have great ideas and I agree.

Three of my children are FASD and two others are RAD. You are describing my children to a tee! I would also say that it sounds like you have some processing issues as well. This is something that can be evaluated by a speech therapist (schools will overlook this. go somewhere else for the assessment)

I would strongly encourage FASD testing. It is estimated that over 80% of children in the foster system have it. Also children are often misdiagnosed RAD and also or only have FASD. Processing issues are often found in a FASD child. I describe my son as the "5 minute child in a 1 minute world" It just takes him longer to get there...sometimes he doesn't.

Like you I didn't care what issues the children had. We were going to make it work. Yes they now have MANY labels but I just look at those labels like they are my care instructions for my child. I know what works and what doesn't.

Good luck and let us know how things are going.

[Barksum]

I agree with the PP's. I too see attachment or FASD, or...well, a brain difference of some sort in what you are describing. Because RAD and FASD, autism spectrum and other issues that stem from brain damage or differences in how the brain processes for some reason all result in behaviors that look like what you describe I would suggest a neuro-psych eval like the PP''s, too. Also perhaps check with an occupational therapist. Ours was up on some processing disorders as well as dysfunction of sensory integration and other things. While the specialized dr's gave the dx's, the OT gave ways to work with our kids dx's.

The order of whom to see first would, I think, be a neuro-psych first and then go with what he/she suggests as follow up therapies. You can figure out if you are working with mental delays and sometimes help to pin point the root cause of the delays. These dx's at this age do indeed give you all kinds of help as to HOW to parent him. If, say, he has an auditory processing problem they can help you communicate with him in a way that makes sense to him.

You've had him for 8 months, but ALL of his formative time, 3/4ths of his entire life, has been in various stages and forms of chaos. The anxiety doesn't go away quickly, even when the latest mom in your life is very reassuring. (I'm not belittling you as his mother, just pointing out that for HIM this is just the latest home of many...and it will take a long time for him to really believe that he isn't leaving.) It sounds like you are likely dealing with a kid who was neglected, as well. Most neglected kids are not socially/emotionally on target. If he is always doing something wrong, go back a few developmental steps and treat him as if he were a toddler. He can then perhaps have more successes and at least one or two fewer failures all day. Kids know when they aren't doing well, so it's a kindness to not give them more than they can handle. He's showing by his failures to keep the rules that he isn't going to be able to handle that level of responsibility.

So even though he's four, don't let him do the things that most of the preschoolers you work with can do independently. Do the things with him, as per the PP said; coaching, or apprenticing. An apprentice works with direct supervision from the master artisan. This does mean more work for you, but when we've been able to keep to this principle our kids with brain differences do wonderfully better.

Instead of telling him to get dressed and come to breakfast, for example, we go and hand the clothes to our younger kids and then walk with them to breakfast. We talk about how they put on their clothes. We offer a hand to lean on, or point out that the pants are going on backwards. My 4yo son still isn't able to totally dress himself alone so he still gets some hands on help. My 3yo Dd can, but we do still stand with her as she does it.

Hang in there! You'll find the puzzle pieces. It doesn't all just fall into place (or at least not that often) and you'll probably be looking for puzzle pieces for awhile - and then again with every growth spurt! - but you sound pretty determined to find what your Ds needs.

[Lorraine123]

As already stated, I too see RAD and FAS. You also described my child exactly. I would serioiusly look into an attachment therapist. Since you said that therapy is actually making it worse, I tend to think its attachment related. Regular therapy makes attachment disordered kids act out even more (and most towards the mom). I, personally, would look into that first.

[aspenhall]

It sounds more to me that it's a processing issue, whether it's psychological, or neural I don't know. I think he has WAY too many failures. Pick one thing that you KNOW he can achieve, because he already has, and then work on that one thing. Treat everything else as "training" like the others suggested. It sounds to me like he is stressed over his failures, and he probably believes he can't please you...and expects to be sent away again.

It will take years of coaching him as if he were younger. Once you accept that this will take years for him to get past, it will be less stressful for you to deal with. And I was told that true empathy doesn't really develop until children are 8 or 9. You're going to need to go back to the idea of parenting a 1-2 yr old and start from there. Would you punish a 1-2 yr old for these things? Or would you do lots of training and modeling?

I see insecure attachment issues...and an inability to relate to you. You're on the opposite team, not on his side. You need to find a way to show him you're on his team.

[mumofone]

I'd have to say he is having attachment issues.

[ladyjubilee]

Originally Posted by mk317

I will try not to make this to long, but there is so much to say. I have posted on here before about the hard time we are having with our 4 yr old son we are in the process of adopting from the state. We were not his foster parents first and have had him for almost 8 months now. First, I want to say that I am asking for advice or encouragement. Please do not tell me that we should not adopt this child or that I am not ready for adoption (as I've been told before on here). This little boy is our son and he's been through 6 different placements in 3 1/2 yrs. We have spent the last 8 months telling him that no one will come take him away and that he is a part of this family. He is a child, not a clothing item that you return if it doesn’t fit.

First, realizing a placement isn't working, or rather can't work, isn't like returning an item of clothing. Some placements just aren't safe. But that doesn't sound like the case here.

I want to help him the best I can and that is why I am posting this. We have two bio girls (11 & 7) and I worked with special needs kids for 5 years and currently teach preschool. It’s not a foreign territory for me and that’s why I feel so helpless.
On that note, we are really struggling with our son and I feel like I am not helping him and possibly making things worse. He's started some concerning habits: stuttering to the point where he's making funny faces trying to get the sound out and he constantly is grabbing his penis (a comfort thing for him). He came to us from a foster family he was with for 9 months and obviously had no structure. We have come a long way and over come a lot of sleeping, eating, and behavior issues. But it seems like as soon as we get through one thing, a new thing pops up. His bio-mom was mentally delayed and I'm worried that he is too. Can they diagnose this at this age?

I think this is where I'm confused. Preschoolers can definitely be diagnosed for some delays. Is it that you're concerned that he is delayed or that you're concerned about a specifc delay that can't be diagnosed until the child is older?

It sounds mean, but I would love for someone to say, "I think he has ______". That way I could figure out how to parent him successfully. Right now he has a ton of behavior issues: breaking rules, lying or denial that he did the thing I watched him do, talking back, annoying others (constantly). No form of discipline has stopped the behaviors. He does the same "bad" things over and over again, every day. It's like he has no concept of right from wrong and feels no guilt or sympathy when does something. You talk to him about it and he says okay and then goes and does it again. A lot of the time I will ask him a question and the response is so random, it concerns me. Or I will say something and he will get all mad and grumpy at me for no reason. Like he really doesn’t understand what I’m saying. Sometimes his answers don’t match up to what he really wants. He’ll say yes, but mean no or say he wants something and when you give it to him, he’ll get all mad about it. There are times when I think, "On no, we're adopting a mentally ill child and I'm not sure I'm cut out for this".

Again, I'm a bit confused. Does this mean you went into this knowing the child had a potential mental health diagnosis and now feel overwhelmed by the reality or that no one told you a child with so many placements had behavioral issues?

Also knowing a child's condition is reassuring, but not always helping in parenting. When we have a special needs child we muddle through....or in my case make a muddle as we go through.

It may well be that he literally doesn't understand you. With some disabilities language just doesn't make sense. Also, which forms of discipline have you tried exactly? Correction, modeling, reenforcing?

I am on him constantly through the day because he is ALWAYS doing something he's not supposed to. He's a lot better behaved for my husband too, which makes it hard, because I feel like everyone thinks I'm too hard on him. But they don't see what I have to deal with all the time. He is constantly annoying me to get my attention and when I ask him to stop, he gets mad and will hit the floor or throw himself on the floor.

That sounds like an attachment issue.....but....

I want to correct all his wrong behaviors and teach him what is okay,

This where I'm confused again. I don't know of any delay or behavioral issue where we can tackle all the problems at once. Its not easy, but we have to pick our priorities. If Little Guy sticks his finger up his nose then eats the results one more time, ewwwww! But my bigger priority is getting to interact with others.

but then I'm told I'm too hard on him. Do I just let him be a bad-behaved child because he's been through a lot? I am a strict parent; I think a child should respect his/her parents and others and do as they are told.

No, you don't let him be a bad-behaved child because he's been through alot....but instead you meet him where he is. Every four year old, including special needs four year olds, is going to have areas of, well, improvement opportunities. Just think if tomorrow you were picked up and plooped down in a computer programmer job. Your boss knows all the computer rules and understands all the computer languages---and your experience and area of knowledge is early childhood education. Still that boss expects that not only develop a program, but develop a program by all the rules. Just how well would you succeed? The boss wants to know why you just can't "get with the program!"

Some behaviors just have to be low priority. Added to that....what if this child is oppositional defiant? If he is, just doing what he's told would feel like a life threatening task....and while equally strict in its own way, a more flexible creative parenting approach may be needed.

I do not think it's okay for a child to run wildly through a store, or touch other people's things, or talk back to a grown up.....is that asking to much?

With some special needs children, yes it is too much to ask...way to much to ask. Some children, like Little Guy who is autistic, have never had rules before. Or like Little Guy, may not understand social rules at all. Or it could be RAD or ODD. In which case it would it would be like asking why a diabetic why they can't just regulate their blood sugar.

I'm so confused. I feel like I have no control over him and so I'm constantly "on him" about everything trying to get it. Now with the new concerning behaviors, I'm worried I'm not helping him, but making it worse. HELP!!! Am I making any sense?? He does get services for his speech and we have an IFSP review meeting this week. We are also doing some PCIT (Parent Child Interaction Therapy) twice a week, but I don't see any improvements, actually they are getting worse.

You won't see improvements that quick. I'll just be blunt, with any child with special needs it takes time....time as in years. And as you work on things it will get worse before it gets better. Plus you may never be "in control". That may just be a luxury that has to be put aside for the rewards of having this child. If so, welcome to the world of chaos where everyday is an adventure in the unknown

Also, the issues we have at home, he does not show at school or therapy. I am really tired!!!
Gosh, I guess I really just needed to vent, sorry for this being so long, but I could really use some encouragement.

I can related to tired . I'll just be blunt, part of parenting a special needs child is giving up the image of ourselves as super parent and reformulating our views on parenting. I do not like ill-behaved children--I believe in active parenting....BUT...I have to meet Little Guy where he is. He can't just do what I tell him. He will run through the store touching...and when corrected will have a tantrum--right smack in the middle of the aisle. My mom mentioned during one, "You know, it could be really embarrassing--you sitting on one side, me on the other, and him laying on the floor screaming." I was to the point of not even noticing that it was supposed to be embarrassing! Now, though that's very rare. Little Guy can even walk around now without holding hands and stay with me (big step for a Little Guy!)

And just one more piece of my more than likely worthless advice....Its very easy to get into the "no" form of parenting. "Don't do", "Don't touch", "Don't say...." but in my experience with both "normal" and special needs children the most effective form of discipline is, "Wow, that's great", "you're a fantastic kid", "I'm glad you...." Frankly, it didn't hit home with me just how effective---and how connected to the subconcious praise is, until Little Guy was on a vitals monitor at the hospital. All the adults in the room were talking and talking to him while he was "out"....but if you leaned in and said, "I love you" or "you're a good boy" his heart rate and blood pressure rose....not to mention the great strides in his behavior when we use those words. (It even worked with one of my girls who was RAD.)

Anyway, my advice isn't not to adopt this child, because, hey at 4 it can't be that bad......but rather go back and get some more information. With all those placements someone has to know something--the therapist should know something. Then, well, this is a Christian thing, but be willing to treat him like God treats us. We're given rules that are to our benefit....but those rules are guided by mercy and patience and a desire for understanding. High standards, but grace for small steps.


Oh, and I'd also get together in the real world with foster/adopt parents. I get so much from other parents.

[Robbin]

I agree with attachment disorder issues. Look into Sensory Integration Disorder. Your four year old can also have developmental delays and speech delays just due to early experiences (or lack thereof). Look into speech therapy, occupational therapy, sensory activities, Head Start. IQ is not set in stone at this age, you can definitely provide enrichment activities and therapies that can positively affect IQ. Our two daughters have same mother with high functioning mental retardation. The 16 yo has normal IQ, the 10yo has low average after 7 years of us working with her...speech therapy, Early Intervention services, Therapeutic Service worker at home, Home Based Behavior therapy, After School Therapeutic Care, Individualized Therapy, Attachment Therapy, Deep Muscle Massages, Sensory Integration Activities, etc., etc., etc. She is 300% improved!!! You wouldn't even know she's the same kid. You can DEFINITELY MAKE A DIFFERENCE. It will be up and down and rewarding and discouraging, but it's your kid, not some inanimate object.

[mk317]

Wow, thanks guys. That's a lot of info! I know this will be a long process and we knew going into the adoption process that the child we'd get would have issues, it's just been way harder than I expected. We were not told of any of these issues when we got him. He was described as a happy little boy. He is getting services through our ESD and it's the same classroom I used to work in, so they are very willing to help us. They are going to recommend a behavior therapist for him. I think I have a lot of work to do with myself too. I'm always trying to figure out what God is trying to teach me with all we are going through with him and someone pointed out that maybe this isn't about me, maybe it's about our son. Maybe God is working in him and I need to be there to help in that, not get in the way with my pity parties. :0)
I think I should probably talk to the doctor too. I am so tired lately that I just don't have the energy to keep up with him all day. So, I get grumpy and that's not helping anyone. It's been a big adjustment for our whole family and we really all need to sit down and work out a plan of action so everyone is on the same page and we can be a consistent, yet loving environment for our son. He has been through so much in his short little life and we do love him very much. Thanks again, I'll keep you posted.

[UnconventionalMom]

Originally Posted by Lorraine123

As already stated, I too see RAD and FAS. You also described my child exactly. I would serioiusly look into an attachment therapist. Since you said that therapy is actually making it worse, I tend to think its attachment related. Regular therapy makes attachment disordered kids act out even more (and most towards the mom). I, personally, would look into that first.

+100
And it'll make you feel better too.

[maggie_va]

I saw what almost all the previous posters did ~ attachment issues.

Unlike the other posters, I will tell you that you shouldn't go forward with the adoption of this child or continue foster care at this time.

I know that sounds like a bold statement but to be frank that you missed what are so clearly the signs of attachment issues worries me for both the child and you.

At his age, he has a very good chance of overcoming attachment problems but attachment therapy is specific and requires immense emotional effort. IMO, 8 months have already been wasted and time it ticking away. Your asserstions of how children behave are going to hinder you in the process. You CAN NOT expect to use the same discipline techniques a person would use on a normally developing 4 yr old and expect to get anywhere.

The problems are further compounded by what appears to be other developmental delays and yes this little boy may be mentally delayed and have a low IQ. Coupling those 2 together means a parent(s) has to be committed to not worrying about how they are going to get their child to do what they want but how they are going to help their child learn and develop healthy emotional habits as well as live up to their full potential no matter how limited.

No children are not items to be returned. Nor are they mountains to be conquered.

[momraine]

I think if you are able to learn more about attachment and get some therapy you can parent this child.

[UnconventionalMom]

Originally Posted by maggie_va

...I will tell you that you shouldn't go forward with the adoption of this child or continue foster care at this time.

I know that sounds like a bold statement but to be frank that you missed what are so clearly the signs of attachment issues worries me for both the child and you...

In all fairness, attachment issues aren't exactly mainstream knowledge. Even with all of the information discussed here on a daily basis, I cannot tell you how many times I've read about experienced foster and adoptive parents who write off attachment issues due to misinformation or lack of understanding. How many times have you read "We have been seeing our therapist for years and it's just not helping..." and then they finally go find a real attachment therapist and things gradually change.

Give this poor family a chance! The last thing someone needs is more negativity and judgement, no matter how well-intentioned it is.