[marykath]

My youngest daugther, age 4, has always had some issues, not as severe as many on this board, but today I feel as if I just cannot do it anymore. Not one more second.
(By way of background, she came to us at 17 months from a background of abuse/neglect and is poly-drug exposed. We have been through attachment issues, two child psychologists, one therapist, two preschools and are currently going to sensory therapy w/ an OT).
The behavior that got to me today: Wanting Mom to put ALL the ponytail holders (she has about 20) in her hair 2 minutes before we leave for school and having a huge rage that made everyone late. My oldest has been tardy to school sooo many times because of her sister's morning behavior.
I know, the thing is to be calm and not to react, and I should probably go home and clean out her bathroom drawer and leave one pony in. But then it will just be something else. Rages have gotten progressively worse, despite therapy, and now she is up to 3 or so hour-long tantrums a day. She wants me to walk the dog w/ her but I have to make dinner...rage. She wants to play on the computer, but I say no becuase I have to make a phone call...rage. She wants to take the car to pick up sister from school and I say we are walking...rage. At times I have had to leave her screaming in her carseat while I walk up to the school and frantically motion for sissy to come NOW.
Today I feel like I cannot live like this anymore. Every morning I wake up in dread wondering what will set her off.
Anyone else feel this way? Anyone?

[lucyjoy]

ME! ME! I do!

I hate the little stuff they do over and over and over and over forever and never stop.

And raging is just not fun. What about using a sturdy stoller to strap her in while she's raging and you need ot get her sister to or from school?

What happens if you ignore the raging(when you don't have to leave?)

Are there times when the behavior is worse? Wondering if changing her diet might help? Things like dyes and corn syrup in foods can set my son into hyper mode and other kids to rage.

Is there anyone who can give you a break? Do you have an spouse that's home part time you can hand off to when the day is stressful? Sometimes, tag team parenting can help keep me going on a stressful day.

[Lorraine123]

My hand is raised!!!!

Lucy is right about the tag team parenting. I do believe that is what has gotten me thruogh at times.

I find that taking away the power from rages helps. Don't let her control everyone. Hard to do I know.

You are not alone.

[kretzklan]

I'm in the boat too. It's tough even on some of our 'better' days - always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I hope you can find a way to not let those rages affect everyone else (much harder said than done).

[athikers]

Someone here once said having a child with RAD is like being pecked to death by a chicken. I think that is PERFECT. Its not necessarily anything HUGE (for some of you, it is I know) but its the little things than when they do them day after day after day it is maddening. I think most here with RADlets can relate to you.

I only parented my RADlet foster daughter for 7 months. There were months of me waking up and saying "okay, I can do this for 16 more hours (until she went to sleep again)

You are not alone

HUGS

[dadfor2]

She wants to play on the computer, but I say no becuase I have to make a phone call...rage.

not sure if this helps, but instead of saying no because you have to make a phonecall,

say

"yes you can, right after i make a phone call"

if you can try to start the conversation with a positive vs a negative it might help a little.

poly-drug exposed
I dont know about RAD or not, but being poly-drug exposed can cause children to have issues with 'filtering' their feelings. they seem to 'react' and its hard for them to actually hear what you are saying. Its part of their brain develpment, and i dont think all the therapy can actually change all of it.

I know how your feeling, I have been through something similiar with my son.

maybe try really choosing your battles for a while. (at least to give yourself a break)

maybe put her on the computer then go make the phone call. Maybe take the car to pick up sis instead of walking. I;m not saying cave into what she wants, but maybe look at the situation and say to yourself "well, its not that unreasonsible, ill just let her so I wont have to deal with her raging for hours."

but be forwarned, the minute you tell her no, then you can never change your mind, you have to fight it out.

For a while, i would pick certain things that he can never do, which mostly were about safty (wearing seat belts in the car, helmets when he rides his bike and skateboard, blah blah..safty issues I wouldnt bend on)

then, everything else, i would try to really look if i could just say yes to it. for a while anyway, as i didnt want him to rage, he couldnt learn anything if he was constantly raging. I knew that once he started raging, everything after that was useless.

plus, I know for me, i would say no to him, just because he got on my nerves. I know it sounds weird, but when i really looked at why i was saying no, it really was about him being a pain in the butt and he didnt deserve a yes after the way he carried on.

I should probably go home and clean out her bathroom drawer and leave one pony in

well, keep at least 5 so she doesnt get to upset. Hang in there, these kids really know what buttons to push. I totally can relate to your post, There were days when I really didnt like my kid. Loved yes, but liked, no.

[Barksum]

We do some of this kind of thing daily, too. Not as bad as it used to be, for the most part. But for awhile Ds who has probable FASD, sensory integration problems, and some emotional/attachment stuff as well we were doing this daily. Several rages/meltdowns per day. After we got going on the OT component some of this abated, and we also worked really hard to have specific routines and rules that we stuck to.

I now have another Ds (3rd son, 4th child) who is pretty demanding. I find myself cringing when I have to tell him no. I know this will mean a melt down and that while I'm dealing with him the other 4 kids will go bonkers and get into stuff that they're not supposed to and that by the time I get back from dealing with Ds3 I'll spend another half hour or an hour of getting everything back on track. He's not as volatile as Ds1 in some ways, but in other ways he's worse. He also doesn't sleep well, so we've been working on that for awhile, too. (As an update he's doing somewhat better with that. We're still fine tuning to see if we can do better still.)

I also try to keep choices limited. It is for MY convenience, but I've also come to realize that my convenience makes things better for the kids in the long run, too. So if having only one pony tail holder in the drawer makes life easier then go for it. Change the pony tail holder two or three times per week if she can handle that. If not, black goes with most things! LOL

In several of the FASD trainings we've gone to there was some discussion about clothing and choices, and the morning rush in particular. The suggestions were to have the child go over their clothing choices each weekend and choose 5 outfits for the next week. Socks, shoes, jacket, everything down to the pony tail holders. Also they suggested having a "Never Fail" outfit. The one that ALWAYS feels right, even when the other outfits don't. (For SI kids this can be a big deal.) The kid has their never fail outfit to fall back on in the case of their chosen outfit for the day turning out to not work. (The never fail outfit will most likely be those funky pants with the shirt that doesn't match, of course, but hey - it works!) A few families shared similar strategies that helped out with the meltdowns and the difficulties with school, etc. Maybe you could try to figure the things that you know are going to be difficult and try to see if there is a way to work through them by limiting choices, having her think about it ahead of time, or some other strategy.

For our Ds1 who had the SI stuff some days it was just...too much, all the time, every day. There were times I couldn't figure out what the triggers were, and I don't think HE knew, either. He was just overwhelmed much of the time.

We did figure out that he liked enclosed spaces. Big boxes, under the desk in the corner, in the tall cupboard in the kitchen.... Dh put a blanket that hung from the top bunk down to the bottom bunk. This was Ds1's "cave" and during the day he sometimes really needed to go someplace very quiet and unstimulating to calm down. When I knew he was revving up for a meltdown I'd send him up - BEFORE he got into trouble, though. I'd tell him he wasn't in trouble, but that he needed to go be calm for a bit. He also slept in his "cave" and this lasted for a couple of years.

Additionally, he liked to have his bedding like a nest. It was very untidy and really kind of rubbed me the wrong way (there is a "right way" to make and maintain a bed, after all!) but for him it was soothing and helpful. He would put all of his blankets into a kind of circular mound and sleep in the middle. He slept well this way. If we tried to insist on him being in the bed, under the covers like one is supposed to sleep he didn't do so well. I finally figured that if this was working I shouldn't be so uptight about the way his bed looked. So we had the nest and the cave for a few years.

He still tends to sprawl in a pile of his bedding, but he does straighten it up from time to time as well.

For us the emotional turmoil kind of waxes and wanes. Sometimes it is intense and I'm very, very, very weary and burned out. Other times we seem to have a hiatus of sorts and all the kids seem to settle down and be doing very well. Then there'll be some upset.... Right now things are kind of middle of the road-ish.

It sounds like you're in the thick of things. Find ways to give yourself a little break. Take 5 minutes in the bathroom with the door securely locked and stuff a towel underneath so there is no gap and no little fingers can poke through. While you are in your santuary eat your favorite comfort food; mine is mashed potatoes or Ritz crackers. Start humming a pre-selected song to yourself every time Dd has a meltdown. While she's raging you can hum "Anything You Can Do I Can Do Better" from Annie Get Your Gun. Imagine Howard Keel and Betty Hutton singing away while you hum. I don't know why, but for some reason this tended to help me sometimes. I also like Mentos so sometimes I would hide some and after dealing with a meltdown without losing my cool I'd reward myself.

I could never figure out a way to get full-blown, real time to myself. Besides, where would I go? What would be relaxing and stress free? I couldn't think THAT far in advance. So I started devising little ways to do little things that would help.

[qs mom]

Sounds more like manipulative 2 year old tantrums. My son doesn't get a lot of choice.

He has proven that he can't choose his clothes. So, he can choose his shirt. I give him pants, underwear, and 2 shirts. He can pick one. In theory - win/win. He gets to choose, I don't need to wait around while he puts on 17 different shirts.

I'm mean in the morning. When it is time to go, you better be dressed or you will go to school in your underwear. Q has gone to school with a white sock and a black sock. He decided to toss his socks and underwear all around his room in a tantrum, mixing up the clean clothes and the dirty clothes. Guess what? I don't care!

I try to not say no. It is only a tantrum. So, I give an option. Can I have candy? You can have a piece after dinner or for snack. Which do you want? After hearing NO, he hears nothing more. Currently, he is grounded from his video games.

Can I play when we get home? NO - screaming, growling, punching the wall, chair, etc.

Can I play when I get home? What do you think? You can choose to do the right thing and we'll talk about it, or you can choose to do the wrong thing and we won't talk about it.

[aspenhall]

My dd di this also at your dd's age. A rage in the store once, did me in, so I sat down on the floor with her trying to out do her rage "showing her how to really pitch a fit as if she was no good at it....and she was so shocked and horrified, that she hasn't misbehaved in public since.

I also put her in a shower fully clothed to cool off once. I explained that her behavior was dangerous, asked her if she could cool herself off and she stopped looked me in the eye and escalated....I knew then she was purposefully losing control, and that since the meltdowns had been increasing in intensity and duration, she was capable of controlling herself....So shen she didn't answer, I picked her up (still thrashing and raging) and put her in the shower and kept her their until I was certain she had gotten control of herself.

After that all I'd have to do is ask her if she could get control of herself, or did she need my help?

She'd calm down pretty quick at that moment.

I also did away with multiple choice. It was no longer "go fold laundry" it became "which do you pick, laundry or emptying the dishwasher?"

And as far as getting ready. I did take her with me all over town to do errands and have lunch while she was in an oversized ratty t-shirt/nightshirt and bare feet without her hair done. (summertime)

Of course people stared, and of course she was embarrassed...and I DID give her the choice to get ready or not. But I didn't modify my schedule because of her choices.....life goes one wheather she's ready or not. And I wasn't embarrased myself at all...I stayed cheerful and oblivious to the whole situation.

[saranbr]

Oh yeh, at least half the time. My approach has been to, best as I can, not let his choices determine my/our family's life-- being late, etc. Taking the power of being able to control the family has seemed to de-escilate a lot of the problems. Let me tell you, since he wasn't ready in time to leave for church and had to sit in the service with us for an hour and a half with no entertainment rather than going to children's church-- he's been ready every single time. I'm very lucky that he loves to ride the bus-- if he's not ready in time for school, I will drive him and walk him into class. Others probably have better advice than I, but I've found that consequences that are directly related to the issue at hand (often easier said than done) tend to be about all that works.

[Barksum]

I should have mentioned that my Ds1 was ages 2-5 or so when we were dealing with the rages and the most intense stuff. He's now 10.5 and doing tons better. We still maintain fairly 'rigid' schedules for all the kids because they all do better with not a lot of free wheeling time. I guess we're more than , at least in appearance, but it really is easier and the kids prefer the boundaries.

I've done something similar to Aspen, too. When Ds1 was about 7 or 8 when we were in the store and he was doing the whining/fussing, revving up for a bawl-fest and tantrum. I stopped the cart and all the kids had to stand around while I talked with Ds1.

I very calmly told him that if he wanted to have a fit he had to do it The Right Way. I firmly (but still in a calm voice) told him to lie down on the floor. He reluctantly did. I said, "Now start crying and kicking. Give me a scream or two. Go on, get going." He started to fuss and whimper, but I told him that wasn't good enough. He was getting panicky, staring at me in horror. He said he didn't want to have a fit. I told him that was too bad, he started this and now he needed to finish it the right way. Get going, get that fit done.

He started to cry for real, then, and said, "No, Mom! Don't make me have a fit! I don't want to have a fit! Please, don't make me kick my feet! Maw-ha-ha-um, don't make me!" He was really crying by then, so I asked him if he was ready to not be cranky and to behave in the store? Suddenly, miraculously, he was ready to not whine and to behave.

Through this whole time I could hear this guy behind us who was casually looking at something on the shelves in back of us. He was being careful to not stare outright, but I could hear him snickering under his breath. About the time Ds was begging me not to make him have a fit the guy had started to laugh every once in awhile. By the time we were done he'd walked away, but I have this feeling that he told everyone at the dinner table about that crazy lady at the store who made her whiny kid throw a real fit, the right way. LOL

We've also found that not being able to go places when they aren't ready, or other very natural consequences has helped...but only with time and repetition. He, and some of the other kids, don't figure things out through consequences as quickly as would be the norm. Sometimes they have to do things over and over before it clicks. This is typical for FASD, so I work to not be discouraged when they don't get it and to make it a punitive thing, but a discipline/training thing. So if he misses doing something because of his behavior or whatever, he's very sad but it doesn't necessarily mean that he won't do that again and miss out again on something in the future.

I sometimes have to try to determine if he truly doesn't get it, because if he isn't able to function and he never gets to do ANY fun things because he's chronically UNABLE to get ready under stress, then I need to work on a way to help him be ready and not always have him lose out. He'd be chronically discouraged which would not always be the most conducive for learning. If, on the other hand, he's being all manipulative and nasty, and it doesn't have to do with not being ABLE to do what he needs to do, then he'll miss out on some project or other. We just try to be aware of whether this is manipulation (typical kid type or attachment type) or INABILITY (FASD related) and work accordingly. Of course we mess up, and have had to apologize at times, but for the most part we're started to sometimes be on the ball enough to figure it out.

If there is an event we do not want to be late for I make all the arrangements necessary to be ready in plenty of time. We start getting ready WAY (2 hours or more, if need be) in advance and I make sure that anything and everything I can do ahead of time is done. I get dressed in my underthings (usually it's a dress-up event, so I put on the stockings, the girdle, the slip, the pumps...) and put on my robe, then do my hair in the prelim stages (usually up and out of the way ) and put on moisturizer. After I get the kids in the car with DH I put on my makeup, finish the hair and throw on my clothes. It goes faster this way, and if I've had to wrestle with anyone it usually doesn't mess up my underthings and hair too much so I don't have to get re-dressed.

(Wait, was that TMI? It's just that I recently discovered that not all moms do this, so thought it might be helpful. I've just done this kind of thing for so long that I think it's normal, and it was fairly recently that I found out that there are families who all get dressed at the same time, and while the kids may have some hiccups along the way, there are no rages where they destroy hair-do's, or rip their clothes off, or their mom's, and that kind of stuff. It was kind of surprising to realize the adaptations we've built in without thinking too much about it. I also don't think too much about what we have to do that is 'abnormal' because it is so much less than many of the other forum members here, so it doesn't see like much in comparison. )

[blueprints]

Count me in!!!!!!!! My son has been this way (from 2 1/2 when we got him) for the past 5 years. I don't think our therapist knows what to do and I'm pretty much loosing all hope that he'll ever change. I honestly don't have a clue what to try next.

[po]

I had one boy that some mornings would not get dressed for school. I had already talked to the school and told them what was going on. They had an outfit at school for him. The next time he acted up and was not going to school I said yes you are even if you are going in your pj's. I had to drag him out of the house he was too big to carry, set him on the 4wheeler and took him down the lane to the bus. He got dressed at school after having a talk with the principal. We had to do this several times.