[lucyjoy]

I've been a bit annoyed and somewhat shocked at my 17 year olds lack of knowledge and poor level of responsibility. Looking back at my other older kids, I've been questioning what I've done right and what I should have done different.

As part of S's schooling, we've been reading Do Hard Things that was written by teenage home schooled twins. The basis is that they feel teens need to rebel against the low expectations society has for them, especially in the current generation. They talk about the teen years as a launching pad to adulthood rather then a part of child hood used for playing and having a good time.

I'm wondering if I'm giving my children enough responsibility and enough choices to be ready to successfully launch.

What rules do your kids have? What is there purpose?

What expectatins or responsibilities do they have? Do you remind them? Should we remind them?

Should a 12 year old be told when to go to bed, or should he be expected to handle that? Should a 17 year old be woken up for work so he doesn't lose his job or is that his problem?

When I meet my older children for dinner(the younger ones come too) I always ask them what they've done to better the universe since I saw them last(and I need to be asking my self the same question).

Are we creating this generation of entitlement by not expecting or requiring enough of our children and teens?

[DianeS]

What a WONDERFUL question!

While I have plenty of opinions on the subject, I haven't had any specific child long enough to know if my opinions on this are worth anything, so I'll keep them to myself.

But a friend of mine is raising her children with exactly that philosophy: "They talk about the teen years as a launching pad to adulthood rather then a part of child hood used for playing and having a good time."

She believes that since a child usually leaves home (college, career, apartment with friends, whatever) at age 18, it is her job to make sure that before that time, her children can do EVERYTHING that the adult world will require.

She intends that her children at that age will be able to cook a meal, do the shopping, balance a checkbook, set a budget, clean a house, do minor repairs on house and car, choose a mechanic, choose a plumber, talk to a landlord, knowledgeably sign a legal contract, get a job, do their own taxes ... I'm sure I'm missing several, but you get the idea.

And she knows her timeline for teaching this stuff, too. For instance, her kids are expected to be able to handle car maintenance (and prove they can) before they get their drivers' licences.

It's pretty cool watching her kids learn all this. This is one set of kids I expect will be able to handle themselves well in the outside world. I also wonder if this will alleviate so much of the teen "I don't have anything to do" angst, as well as relieve the young adult "I can't do enough to get ahead!" agony. It might just do both.

I look forward to reading the rest of the responses you get to this!

[skirbo]

For what it's worth, any time I tried to put more responsibility on B's shoulders, she would refuse. Her reason was that she was a kid and she shouldn't have to do anything other than be a kid until she turned 18.

Then again, it's hard to reason with a crazy person, as her former therapist is fond of reminding me.

Sarah

[MamaS]

LucyJoy: We require less because there is less for them to do. We almost have to create work/chores for them.
Example: When my mother was 13, she shared a room with her paraplegic grandmother. Every morning before she left for school she was expected to get Granny up, take her to the commode chair, get her dressed, braid her hair, empty the commode chair, and take Granny in to breakfast. All this along with getting herself dressed and ready for school. There was running water only in the kitchen and no bathroom.
Today there are nursing homes for that.

When I was 13 my mother worked an eleven hour day and took college classes on Saturdays. I was responsible for keeping the house clean and cooking dinner every night. I planned the menus, wrote out the grocery list and was given $25 a week to buy groceries. There was not one single fast-food outlet in my town. I had never eaten a pizza (had my first in college).
Today there are cleaning services, fast-food outlets and drive-thrus, not to mention the incredible amount of already cooked meals you can get at a grocery store.

When my daughters were 13 one was in ballet and had to be driven to class every day and the other was into horses and spent every day at the stable. I drove them to their activities, rushed home to fix dinner, then went back to pick them up. They came home, ate, did homework, talked on the phone and went to bed. They never learned to cook, barely learned to clean their rooms, but won awards for dance and riding. I thought I was giving them a better life than I had, but now I wish I had taught them to cook and to clean. Life as a mother and a wife would have been easier for them if they had learned to do "grown-up" things.

[kretzklan]

My oldest is 12 - so take this for what it's worth and check in with me in a few years. I believe firmly that this generation of kids is spoiled and LAZY to the 100th degree. Our society has devolved in our beliefs that kids can and should do things for themselves. I have three friends whose kids left for college this year and they will NOT do a load of laundry on their own. Period. One has actually bought new clothes on the emergency credit card because she was out of clean stuff and couldn't get home to have mom do her laundry. The parents seem to laught about it - in my world, that is NOT funny. My kids have responsibilities at their ages (9,10,12) and those get bigger each year. DS1 just learned to do laundry and is responsible for 3 loads a week - and not just his...you can help with the family stuff too. I have showed them how I run my house - why we always have a meal on the table and why the house is always clean and running smoothly - that does not just "happen" - it takes planning and priority setting. They see my schedule and my to-do lists. They help me balance the checkbook and make shopping lists. The funny thing is - only DS1 has started to figure out that not every kid has to do this stuff. Yes, he's revolting, so he's been given the option of stopping his chores and expected work in return I can stop paying his cell phone bill and driving him places he needs to go.
Love and logic says to let kids make mistakes when the price is low. That is sometimes hard with DS2 and DD - because they don't learn from those mistakes...but I keep trying to set up the chance for them to figure things out (as long as it won't put them in bodily danger). I don't know how to really "make" my kids be productive members of society, because they can always chose a path that I didn't lay out for them (don't a lot of you know that story?), but I am sure as hell trying!

[crick]

My kids have basic chores -

1. Their room is their responsibility. I allow them to "rebel" on this during the week, but they have to clean it on Saturdays. If they want to spend 2 hours that day cleaning it because it's totally trashed, that's their choice. The reason I don't require them to make their bed daily or keep it pristine on a daily basis is because I feel that's their space and should be able to maintain it the way they wish. (within reason - no food is allowed, no drawing on the walls etc)

2. They are responsible for their own plate clean up at meals. They take turns with setting/clearing the table and every night one is the helper. The helper gets to cook. They all love to cook and dh is much better at teaching them than I! (Great talking/bonding time here too)

3. Pet responsibility is shared and they take turns.

4. They are responsible for bringing down their clothes to be washed & they also put it away. I do not do laundry if it's not brought down and I don't do laundry on weekends either. The 11 & 10 year old have been learning to do their own laundry.

5. The play room & 2nd media room are theirs to maintain. If I go in there and it's trashed, they either lose the items, lose the privilege to be in there or lose gaming time.

Typically we have "family chores" on Sat or Sunday and whatever needs to be done, we do. Other than the above basic chores, it's more of a "Would you please vac the living room" rather than a written out list of everything. ( This just works better for me) Dh is really great about teaching them how to do technical/mechanical/building stuff and they love learning it.

I plan to use the same rules I had on driving. Wasn't allowed to get my license until I could change a flat tire, check oil, and basic car care. I had to sign a contract stating rules we agreed to in order to have a car.

I am big on manners, respect for others and property and responsibility for themselves. I also want them to be kids and have fun. I try to strive for a balance between responsibility & fun. I think school is harder, there's more work and there's more things they worry about which adds stress, so the good old fashioned "playtime" where they can run all out crazy outside, have stick 'wars", etc. is encouraged.

My downfall is money management since we don't do an allowance. They know budgeting basics by us talking (can we get a new car? no, because we have to budget and here's why/how) to them. But actual managing money...that's an area I need to get to work on soon.

[Lylac]

I agree with MamaS. My kids are little, but we're teaching them age appropriate responsibility. My youngest 3 really can't do anything, so most of it lays on Lyla. She's the only one that can understand stuff like that right now anyways.

We started her out as soon as she could understand stuff. Like when she was smaller, maybe age 3, she liked putting her dirty diapers in the trash for me. So now she just knows it's her job to do this..many times she'll take her wet diaper off, throw it away before she brings me a clean one to put back on.
She doesn't do that with poopy ones thank God!

She knows it's her job to say the Blessing before we eat..and even says it at school before she eats.

She knows that every night before she goes to bed, she has to pick stuff up in the play room..even though ALL the kids mess it up.

She respects everybody, she has better manners than any adult I've ever met. She even says excuse me to the dog, if he's in her way.

She takes her clothes and anyone elses and puts them in the laundry baskets. She even sorts the kids clothes from the rest of the house laundry.

She gathers the sippy cups from the play room at meal time.

Lyla is always helping me do stuff. Not because I make her..but because she wants to. With my kids the earlier we teach them stuff, the better they are. And make it easier on them when they get older.

Bremon's responsibility is to be a clown.
Nates responsibility is to keep his helmet on and see how many miles he can walk in 1 day.
Abbie's responsibilty is to keep flashing me that gorgeous smile.

[momraine]

Originally Posted by kretzklan

I have showed them how I run my house - why we always have a meal on the table and why the house is always clean and running smoothly -

OK, so I am impressed! LOL

OK, seriously I struggle with this too.
When I was a kid I had too much responsibility. I had six siblings and a mom who would dissapear for days at a time. Sometimes there was food in the house, sometimes not. Sometimes there was no electricity. I remember once we were living in the country, and had no electricity or propane and so I cooked for the kids over a fire. Some friend of my moms got mad cause a newspaper machine stole his money so he stole the machine, ended up dumping it at my house and I turned it into an outdoor oven. I knew I did not want my kids to have childhoods like mine. However, I had a cousin that I sort of grew up with. Her parents had money and doted on her. She and I were only six months apart. Her parents were supposed to adopt me, but didn't because she came along. So because of the guilt they would often take me for a week or two in the summer.
As a kid I wanted to be her so bad! She had the canopy bed, the latest barbies, she had a horse! She got swimming lessons and went to a cool private school where she could work at her own pace. (I thought that would be awesome as I thougth I could finish school early!)
When we were teens I worked full time, she did plays and took dance, singing and acting lessons. She traveled and saw the world. However, once we were adults and spent time together I realized something. She was still dependant on her parents. While I was supporting my dad, who had moved in with me for a time, she was still being supported by her parents. She had a part time job teaching aerobics, but that was it. She had no concept of money or budgeting. She is now, like me in her fourties and still her parents often have to send her money. She is mostly self supporting now, but all those years of living only for herself, mean that she is alone now. She now wishes for my life. So I don't want my kids to have lives like her either. So I try to walk the balance. MY older ones do babysit the younger ones. The three older ones help cook, and M does occasionally. All of the kids including M are responsible for thier rooms. The older three do laundry and help with other stuff. The family room is the kids responsibility. M feeds the dogs, P helps clean the kitchen, feeds the cats, and cleans the litter box. The older boys take out the trash and do the yard work. My older three all have bank accounts, well, two each actually a savings and then a checking, but they have debit cards and no checks. Their allowence and lunch money get put in the bank each month. If they blow it all at once they have a problem. S has a job so no longer gets allowence. He must tithe and then put half in savings. Both older boys already know basic care maintanance and how to jump start cars and how to change tires. P and the older boys know how to pump gas. M is so much less mature that even though he is only nine months younger than P he has a lot less responsibility. Though when he is older he will have to do a lot, so he will be prepared to live on his own.

[TxMom65]

My son has done his own laundry since he was about 14 or 15. That helps a great deal. My daughter is learning how to do hers. I have found a few loads of clean clothes crammed under the bed once. I made her rewash them and give me her allowance she had saved for the cost of rewashing them.
My daughter has to take care of her animals, pick up after herself, and then on Saturdays we do a general housecleaning. She can do just about anything.

[kretzklan]

Yesterday I got the privilege of interviewing 7th graders for a class field trip they are taking. They had to apply for jobs within this world called "International Towne" - I found something interesting that I think applies to this discussion. On their resumes they got to put down "experience" and of course, none of them have "real jobs". So, many of them included things they do at home. The ones who had responsibilities at home were so proud and spoke out about what they do there. The ones who had nothing in that "experience" category were much quieter in the interview and did a lot of "uuuummmm" and "I don't know". It was a clear line in the sand for sure. One boy was telling me that he and his brothers finished their basement with their dad this summer, he looked at me and said "We were building our bedrooms and every night when I go to sleep and know that I did this - the walls, the floor, the lights, I'm so proud and I know that I can do things for myself when I leave my house someday". Wow...I loved him. When my son was interviewed - by someone else - he discussed that he watches his brother and sister when mom "needs a break" (usually to run errands or something...not just a mental break) - the interviewer asked him what he learns from doing that and he said "I can't just think about me, I have to know what's best to do for them too. I guess I learn that every person needs something different. Sometimes my sister just needs a hug and then she can do other things." That speaks for itself!

[crick]

Kretz - I love that job thing the schools do too. Ours does one in the 5th grade where they go to the "town" and all interview for jobs of police, clerks, bank etc. and hold the elections beforehand for the mayor & judges. Hope our 7th graders do the international one too.

I don't think there's ever a real "right" way to do things, but find there is a wrong way. Meaning, the parents that do NOTHING to instill responsibility and ethic in their kids are in the wrong. All I see out of that are kids everywhere with a huge sense of entitlement. That is what I want to avoid with my kids. That they grow up realizing you don't get anywhere without doing something. Sure, they see friends who do nothing and get everything, but I'm trying to teach them that eventually, all that will result in some tough times later in life.

[Original Mike]

I agree with Kretz about this generation being spoiled and lazy. For any of the boys I foster, I try to set a level of responsibility commensurate with their maturity level.

For chores, EVERYONE has chores to do on a weekly basis. Allowance is tied directly to chores. If you don't do all your chores, your allowance is reduced accordingly. I pay for school lunches, any other school expenses, and pick up the tab when we go out as a family. For outings with friends (to the mall or the movies), the boys use their own money. if you blow it all before the weekend, so sad too bad!! Those who get their chores done early can pick up "Extra Jobs" for extra cash. For example, if your regular chores are done and the walks need shovelling, you can earn extra money by shovelling them.

Everyone is responsible for the upkeep of their rooms (even me). Our new housekeeper does not do the bedrooms as I don't want the boys to get used to being cleaned up after. She does the common rooms, the bathrooms, and the kitchen. I do my room and my home office.

The one are where we've struggled with many boys and responsiblity is money. Kids today just don't know how to habdle it. Allowances are handed out on Friday (just like paychecks). For a lot of boys, allowance is spent by Monday. For some of them, we worked out a ledger sheet. Rather than give them cash, I kept a ledger of their earnings. They learned to follow the ledger to see how their money built up. Then, when they saved what they needed to, they could get a "lump sum" payout for what they were saving for. Once they are old enough for a part-time job, the have to open a savings account and half of their check goes to savings.

R, however, is the reverse of most of the boys: he's a little miser!!! The other day he came to show me how much he's saved. he had $130!!! in his dresser drawer. Considering he gets $10/week, I think that's pretty darn good for a 13 yo.

[lucyjoy]

That's cool, Kretz

I make my kids fill out their doctor forms, put % of money in their savings, and file their important papers.

S is learning Dave Ramsey's money management system as part of his home school.

S is 12. He can start and maintain the fire in the wood stove. He can also split and stack wood. 2 days a week, he's required to plan and cook dinner, do all the dishes, and clean the house. 3 days a week he's required to haul in wood from the outside stack to the inside stack. Once a week he has to wash the towels from their bathroom. Daily he has to feed and water the dogs and empty the ash drawer from the wood stove. I don't tell him when to go to bed, when to get up, or wake him up. He has daily independent school work to do before I start teaching. His room doesn't have to be spotless but picked up.

D is 17 and works 25-35 hours a week at McDonalds. He is required to split so much wood a week in the fall and winter. 2 days a week he cleans the house, plans and cooks dinner, and does all the dishes. He is responsible for maintaining his car and getting his own car insurance. I don't remind him to get his schedule from work or wake him up to get there. He does his own laundry and bathroom towels as needed. He hauls in wood as needed on S's off days. He babysits when I need him to.

Both kids helped with the rehab on our house and building our shed.

While this sounds like a lot of work, except for on cooking days, S is done with all his work and school before his friends are off for the day.

I'm looking for them to take things beyond our front doors and beyond themselves. I can teach them how to do things and how to be responsible but living is more then that. I want them to dream bigger and chase after things more.

I want them to think for themselves.

[lucyjoy]

We had a pastor once that sat down once a year and figured out what his kids would need moneywise for a year. He included lunches, school supplies, clothes. prom dress-everything. He divided it by 12 and that's what he paid the kids each month. If they blew it all on stupid stuff, they had no lunch money or no prom dress. His kids learned to budget that way. I always thought about doing that but I never did.

[chickymum]

Our kids have lots to do. Bring firewood in the house. Bring the groceries in from the truck. Shovel the snow off the deck. Make beds. Put laundry away. DD has more time because she is homeschooled so she has to do more but that is kind of the point for her being home.
She has a hard time learning things, no common sense at all so I figure if I have her along side me helping with all the everyday stuff then she will 1. Bond, hopefully and 2.Have it in her head so that she can do it on her own in 10 years from now. I can see her being unable to figure out life otherwise.

I always think DH is too hard on the kids yet they sure can act like spoilt little brats sometimes. We concentrate so hard ontraining DD that the boys have turned rotten. That is changing though!!!