[Indy]

It seems like I have been posting so much lately...

Touchy-feely things are tough on a single dad. Last night, I spoke to V one on one. He hates that. Well...I mean I spoke and he nodded (yes, no, and maybe). It started out kind of laying the ground rules for his being taken off of house arrest and having the ankle bracelet.

It turned into a confrontation, as he tried to walk away and I wasn't finished with the conversation. I called him back and he did come. We "talked" about a lot of things.

I never know if I am getting through to him. When he came back into the room, he said several times "I don't care" and "why are you talking I am not listening". However, he kept nodding (yes, no, maybe) at times one would expect a response. V has never been real good about looking me in the eye, even when lying (characteristic of RAD).

At first, he hid his eyes from me. When I started talking about what I felt hurt/anger/confusion, he started rubbing his eyes. I saw no tears, as he wouldn't look at me. I kept reminding him who has stood by him for the past two years...through good and bad things. I specifically asked him if he wanted to go to Thailand with me next year. I was shocked when he said "yes". He was mad at me and still said yes. Is that a good sign or him trying to manipulate? Last night, he came and hugged me good night, as though nothing happened. He even said "I love you" back when I said it to him.

Before V came here...he had a good size juvie record. It is my understanding that he wasn't caught for most of the stuff he and his brother did. I don't want to minimize what he has done (especially smoking marijuana) but many teenagers out there have done the same things. They just haven't gotten caught.

When you look at what he has been through and how adults have failed him his entire life...he does care about me. He complies with every request to help with chores. He tried in public school. He pretty much stayed out of trouble in school. He doesn't try to get around the blocks on TV (nothing above PG13, no MTV/BET/VH1, etc), never tried to get around NetNanny on the internet, never any contraband in his room (and I have searched everything), never late for curfew, never disrespectful to me in front of anyone, complies with cell phone rules, etc. Wow! That is some list.

Am I getting through to him? Should I back off on the emotional talks? Is he to far gone? The emotional bank account for him is overdrawn. He has never really responded to me as a son "normally" would. I am not talking about expecting response like a bio child.

Am I expecting to much from him?

[kretzklan]

That list is impressive. I do not know you and V's whole story (kinda new to this board), but I have read your posts many times. From this description it seems that although he claims that he isn't listening, he is. It's probably one of the first times he's had someone to talk to him. I do know that with RAD kiddos the less talking the better - but he is at an age where letting him know how much you care seems to be a big piece of the puzzle. Again, I'm learning...but I'm learning from people like you - so I think you are doing great.

[Original Mike]

I agree totally about touchy/feely stuff being hard for us single dads. My father was cold and emotionally distant, so I really have no guidebook to refer to on dealing with this stuff.

Plus, when you get burned by kids like you and I both have, you start to develop your own armor to prevent it from happening again.

I have almost the mirror image problem with R that you have with V. In our case, R is very into the touchy/feely stuff. he won't go to bed until he gives me a good-night hug. A couple of times, he's told me "I love my life here with you." I guess I've just become so used to manipulation that I try to steer away from it. With R, I don't think he's manipulating. He's actually being honest.

Now, watch how fast the "resident mothers" on this site tell us we just need to get married (and, no, not to each other!)

[momraine]

Sorry mike that made me laugh! No don't marry each other that would freak out all the boys! LOL
Anyway, I don't know that you need to get married as I think there are boys that benefit from just having a dad, especailly if they have been really hurt by the women in thier lives. (unless of course you want to get married, then go for it and show them how a real man treats a woman!)
Anyway, back to the original question. I think V is listening. Keep talking.
I remember when my sister complained about my waiting up for her so I pretended to go bed and she got all upset thinking I didn't care anymore. I think V loves the fact that you care. He just does not know how to show it. Because of what he has been through he is going to have even a tougher time showing the emotions than you. In an abusive situation showing emotions is showing weakness. My husband used to think it was strange that in situations where many women cry, I don't. I learned early not to show emotions in front of people as it would be pounced on as a show of weakenss. I have had to make a concious effort to change that it and it took a long time! However, those people who tried to reach out to me, I did hear even when I pretended not to. I did notice and remember even if it seemed like I didn't at the time. Trust me, he hears everything, and he is glad to know you care, he just can't show it yet. He may be in his 40's like me before he can admit it, but he appreciates it.

[lambeausam]

This young man doesn't seem to have had someone to consistently care for and about him until you came along. It takes a long time for some folks to give their heart to another without fear of being hurt. He may just be showing signs that he trusts you.

Sam

[Rainbow mom]

If yopu really want to know if he has heard you you can say to him. "I really want to make sure were clear can you tell me what you just heard me say?"

[Barksum]

Ah, the emotional 'thing'. It has been my experience with males who are not emotionally open that when you talk, they are listening. You may not know it, but they are. So keep talking.

Keep reaching out. Generally emotionally closed people won't reach out even when deep down they really want to. Often they don't know how or don't want to be that vulnerable. When you reach out, continually, and talk to them about things that are emotional in nature (family stuff like house rules, personal responsibility, your feelings, etc.) you are also showing them how to do that in return. It often takes years (and years) for men (young or old) who don't trust to open up. I think they also don't understand that by being closed and not telling what they think/feel they are sending a message that they don't care or aren't interested.

Dh and I were married for 9 years before he talked about how he felt while in foster care. We had known each other for 10 years at that point. We'd talked about foster care, his childhood (or lack thereof) and all of that, but it was factual points, not feelings. He opened up a little bit, and then clammed up again for a few years. Now we can talk about it, but I am the one who brings it up. Emotionally stressful times (like the multiple deaths in the family this fall) will bring up all kinds of emotion based issues and we have to tread carefully to get through all of that. He's finally able to talk about some of the stuff without becoming physically ill...sometimes.

Early training (like you never allow yourself to be vulnerable, ever) is really difficult to undo/unravel/work through. Ask me! LOL

[linda512]

It's hard to know what he's hearing, but I am sure he is hearing something. And your other option is to give up and it doesn't sound like you are ready to do that. So, I would say keep talking. It can't hurt (well, except that it's hard for you) and I bet it is helping. Will it be enough? Who knows.
I am, as always, impressed by your committment to your boys.

[lucyjoy]

Well, Mike, if you and Indy married each other it might work but if you try to bring a woman into the picture with a rad kid, you're just asking for trouble-mostly for her.

If the child is nasty mean while I'm talking to them, I stop. But, I talk to my kids a lot about things they may not want to hear. And everyone needs to hear the someone love them even if it makes them squirm.

As for if V is manipulating with saying he wants to go to Thailand-tough call. Could he be? yes-he could be saying what he thinks you want him to say. Could he really want to go? Yes, that's possible too. It's so tough to know sometimes.

And with RAD kids, they fear abandonment while running away from you so it's very hard to know what they really want.

V needs you to stay in his life. He needs to know you care. That doesn't mean he won't take off and break your heart some more but that's a risk of loving a hurt child.

[Lorraine123]

Are you getting through to him? Unfortunately, no one can answer that. V probably couldn't answer that. But keep talking. I know with my boys, they were more receptive if it wasn't a "sit down and lets talk" kind of situation. We did some of our best talking while on walks, or while they were in bed and I was sitting on the edge of their bed and the lights were off, or while driving in the car, or while building with legos. Not as threatening I guess.

Why does he want to go to Thailand? Again, no one can answer that. Have you read the book "I hate you, don't leave me"? I haven't read it either, but the title sums up our kids. They push and push and then when they succeed, they freak out.That could be it.

Just keep talking and keep loving. And keep hoping he is internalizing it but know that he is learning from you whether you ever see it or not.