[kay]

I feel like I'm at an AA meeting where the hardest thing to do is acknowledge the problem! My mind comes up with a lot of "maybes" and "yeahbuts", but I read the DSM description this morning, and every single qualifier is C. What got us to this is that last night the psychiatrist asked C to leave the room and told me basically there's nothing he can do for him. I was full of yeahbuts, and plans to find someone else/better, but reading the description, Therapy Does Not Work. Period. He has to want to change, and he sees nothing whatsoever wrong with his life right now (except of course for the others he blames, me at the top of the list, when things go wrong.) The psychiatrist thinks that jail (or in C's case, juvie) might be the best thing for him, because of the absolute structure. So now what? I guess I wait for the natural consequences to take hold. I'm documenting when he screws up, and will indeed tell the probation officer. This morning I woke him up for school, but didn't stand over him and make sure he was up - if he chooses to sleep in, he will have to face the consequences. At this point I just feel this heavy weight in my chest. According to what I read, there is no predictor, no avoidance and no cure - but that doesn't mean that blaming myself is off the table! I still wonder what I could/should have done differently.

[meshsgrl]

I know very little about teenagers or sociopaths. but what about a teen boot camp? Of course with those he would have to be willing to go.
I have worked with young kids whose older siblings didnt get the intervention they needed when they were younger and they ended up at different year to 2 year camps. There are all different kinds of camps for all different kinds of behaviors/issues.

[Original Mike]

Kay:

Not too long ago, I was in the same position with my C. Take my advice: STOP QUESTIONING YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!

Your son is very nearly an adult and is choosing to make poor decisions. he can blame you, blame the system, or blame the man in the moon. It's still his choice. Once I gave up on the idea of blaming myself, Isaw things much clearly.

As hard as it will be, I think your C needs to hit rock bottom. Then he might get a new perspective on things. It took my C getting tossed in jail for a month (with me not visiting or accepting calls from the jail) to make him start to see things a bit clearer. He realized that bad decisions mean lousy options when you hit 18.

A year later, my C is still making some bad choices, but he's also ever-so-slowly starting to get it together. He dumped Skankarella for a much better choice, he's actively job-hunting, and he is sharing an apartment with some friends. We were out to dinner recently, and he told me "I should have listened to you when you tried to tell me I was screwing up my life. I guess you knew what you were talking about... (At that point I think I passed out from shock. i woke up to paramedics asking me if I could hear them.)

It will be hard to watch, but some real tough love is in order here. You have bent over backwards WAY farther than I would have (cause you're a mom ). You can do it and we're here for you!!!!

Too bad you're not living around here. I could arrange a tour of our jail for C and make sure he comes out of here scared to death!

Good Luck!!!

Mike

[lucyjoy]

I don't think the wondering or the looking at the what if's ever stops. It's a hard diagnosis to hear. The one thing that was helpful for R, is the therapist who instead of trying to fix him, worked within his pathology. He taught him how to avoid behaviors that create long term jail time(R hates confinement). He taught him about other people's empathy-not so R would feel, but so he could relate in a world of people who did.

Do I think R is still a sociopath? Depends when you ask me, I suppose. Today's answer would be yes, but he is functioning and personable and I don't think planning to kill or harm anyone today.

You didn't do this too C. Your brain knows you didn't. You can't make it go away either. He will have to live with his choices. You have to learn to love him without going up and down with his decisions. That's the hard part. While this news is devastating to you, the reality is, that as a sociopath, he doesn't care that he is the way he is and can't understand why you do.

You're a good mother and you did everything you could for him. Keep telling yourself that until you believe it because it is true.

[eyejustam]

Hugs Kay, from one mother to another. We can want it for them all we want, the thing is they have to want it for themselves. Unfortunately that may take alot of being flat on their backs looking up. You will come to terms with it in your own time. It may take a while but you will get there. It isn't what you did or what you didn't do. It just is. Praying for your peace of mind.

[Lorraine123]

Part of being a mother is always questioning ourselves. You know that you did not cause this, but I understand how you second guess all the time (I do the same). The guilt can be overwhelming. You need to realize that you can't change C. A sociopath can't see that they need to change. Their world is not like ours. Why should they change when they truly believe it isn't their fault. That doesn't mean there is no hope. There is always hope, it just changes. The only way he will change is through experience. Life has to suck enough that he wants to make the change. Thats hard as a parent to watch.

[momraine]

No advice, but I know you went above and beyond for this kid. He has to make choices now. Hugs to you, this is one of those hardest parts of parenting.

[waited2long]

Also no advice... Just adding hugs!

[SuzBerg]

Kay - Just thinking of you and sending hugs your way!

[ProspectiveSingleMom]

I completely disagree with the advice that jail could be the best thing for him -- many sociopaths who end up in jail find out it's not so bad really (free food and bed, no responsibilities, and may even new friends or a gang to join). The best "therapy" for someone with antisocial personality disorder is to teach them the potential consequences of their actions, allow them to experience consequences, and help them to examine themeselves (easier said than done, but actually does help if started in adolescence). It is true that theraply isn't a "cure," but it can help if you get a good therapist who has experience working with people who have antisocial personality disorder. Group therapy can help as well, but is hard to get because many groups exclude potential members who have antisocial personality disorder.

One thing to keep in mind is that there is a range of severity with anitsocial personality disorder, just like with any personality disorder. While criminal activity is common, many people engage only in crimes that they know they won't get in big trouble for. This is especially true if the person does not have narcissistic tendencies (because narcissists are more likely to assume they won't get caught regardless).

You might want to try reading the book "The Sociopath Next Door." It's a bit biased (the author works with people who have been victims of sociopaths), but it presents a good picture of the various different ways a sociopathic personality can play out.

[mrsred]

Ah, Kay. the could have should haves were well before you ever got C. His early years caused so much damage. You have done the only thing you could do, you are still doing it. You love him.

[ProspectiveSingleMom]

Originally Posted by mrsred

Ah, Kay. the could have should haves were well before you ever got C. His early years caused so much damage. You have done the only thing you could do, you are still doing it. You love him.

Also, keep in mind that recent research indicates a strong genetic component to antisocial personality disorder.

[waited2long]

Originally Posted by ProspectiveSingleMom

I completely disagree with the advice that jail could be the best thing for him -- many sociopaths who end up in jail find out it's not so bad really (free food and bed, no responsibilities, and may even new friends or a gang to join).

The best "therapy" for someone with antisocial personality disorder is to teach them the potential consequences of their actions, allow them to experience consequences...

This doesn't make sense. The others are saying that perhaps he does not truly understand the consequences of criminal activities, so they feel a short time in jail or Juvie may be the only thing to truly get through to him. You disagree, yet still say he should experience consequences? What other consequences are there for the types of things he is already on probabation for?

Nobody truly wants him to go to jail. I think they are saying some time in a jail now may wake him up and give him the motivation to stay out of jail in the future. Especially since he's never really had more than a slap on the wrist from authorities (at least from what I understand).

Not trying to sound offensive or anything, just trying to understand your position or advice. As I will be adopting in the future and may someday have similar things to deal with.

[aspenhall]

I was wondering the same thing....what consequences was she referring to?

[momraine]

Sometimes jail is the only consequence that people get. That's why we have it. If the natural whatever consequences worked for everyone, we would not need jails. You can't get someone who can't/won't keep a job to pay a fine, that whole blood from a turnip thing. You can't make them feel remorse for the person they hurt or stole from. You can't really force restitution always. This kid has already been to RTC, already had fines (that his mom ended up paying) already ignored rules and laws, he is already on probation. He does not want to change his ways. He has not had to face homelessness so I don't think he will appreciate the three meals and a bed part of prison. Besides he would be in juvi which would mean earning priveleges and having to do some sort of school. (at least here that's how juvie works)