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Got some more info on the 2.5 yr old. She was removed 13 months ago (she was then 18 months old) because... are you sitting down.... her birthparents beat her older sister (who was only 2.5 at that time) to death. I was absolutely speechless...... what in the world possesses people to do such things? Both parents are in prison and TPR has obviously already taken place. She is free for adoption. The only real behavior problem is that she apparently throws some humdinger temper tantrums. You'd expect that at this toddler age, but it is also exaggerated by her experiences (she witnessed her sister's death). We are still moving forward with getting her records, photo, etc. This sweet girl definitely needs some solid home life and role models and we are hoping we will be it. The CPS worker is happy with us and is wanting to make plans to move her. She has to be moved within the next 3 months. We are discussing a long transition period so that we can get a feel for what her tantrums are like and to see if we could handle it. Caleb definitely had tantrums but I know that these are rooted in some seriously traumatic history.

After all that rambling, I actually have a question! LOL For those of you that had young children that threw tantrums, how did you handle it and did it ever level out? Barki, I remember you discussing this at chat one night (I think?).

Thanks all!

Lara

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Originally Posted By Pam

WHen Lucas first came, he was two. His tantrums were something else. He screamed, kicked, bit, threw things...anyone witnessing it would think we were torturing him when we tried to restrain him. We had to clear out his bedroom of all toys and hard items and put him there to calm down, whent his happened. We realized he couldn't (not wouldn't), but COULDNT calm down on his own and needed to be in a totally quiet environment in order to finally calm down, plus it needed to be safe. Since he wouldn't stay in his room, hub and I took turns holding the door shut while he threw himself against the door and kicked it, etc. until he finally calmed down to a whimper. the lack of an audience seemed to help him be able to calm himself down more quickly. Once he calmed down, he often fell asleep, but, if he didn't, he was very open to being cuddled and kissed and told he was loved....it was actually very bonding (I know this sounds bizarre, but it is true). His tantrums subsided in time and he no longer has any tantrums anymore. He still tends to cry more than other 8 year olds, but he can stop himself very quickly and he never gets out of control. I do not know if those are the kinds of tantrums this little girl has, but I thought I'd share it with you. I also had another child who trantrumed more on the mild side. Basically, we left her alone, because she was not open to comforting while she was crying. She was too upset. It was not always easy to ignore her, but we did try....a lot of HER crying was manipulative (for example, I wouldn't let her have more cookies, etc). If I made the mistake of talking to her while she was tantruming, she would fuel up again, so I learned to wait until she was done and came to me for hugging and cuddling, which she always did, THEN we talked about the problem. Hope this helps a bit. Good luck on the impending adoption of this adoreble little girl who certainly needs and deserves GOOD parents, like you and your husband, will be. wHat a sad story.

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Originally Posted By barki

I just cried when I read your post. How sad for this child. ( I think for me that the past history of the children is one of the more difficult things about adoption.

Yes, our son really tantrummed when he was younger. He still does on occaision, but not like he used to. Due to his small stature we could carefully hold him if we were in public, or put him in his crib if we were at home. The crib was a reasonably safe place. He'd throw himself around, though, with no thought to his personal safety. His fm bought a bike helmet for him because she had tile floors and her main room had built-ins that had sharp corners.

He'd get so worked up that he was unable to stop. He'd even want to stop, but couldn't get it together. I'd put him in his crib only until he could calm down a little bit. There was no outside stimulation, so he would USUALLY start to calm down within 10 minutes or so. Sometimes he'd go on for longer, though. Now he knows that when he's in his crib he can just calm down. The tantrums are not like what they used to be, but we do still see them at times. Usually there are triggers and I'm working on identifying this and seeing what we can do to help him deal with them. Loud voices are a trigger, DD getting in trouble is a trigger, tiredness (of course!), hunger, thirst, disrupted schedule, etc. LOL

As Pam said, in a bizarre way I too was able to us this as a bonding time. He'd be so upset but when he started to calm down he'd sometimes let me hold him and we'd just talk about nonsense until he had himself in control again.

We'd talk about ways for him to learn to control himself, too. I know he didn't understand all of them, but by talking about him being angry and doing naughty things we started to establish rules of conduct. It opened communication that we are still working on today. Having a tantrum is never acceptable, no matter how much we understand why he's upset and all. Teaching -- over time -- the acceptable ways to be frustrated and angry is the goal in working with a child who is tantrumming. Don't let the tantrumming manipulate you or scare you. If it does scare you, get a counsellor to work with you on strategies for this child in particular.

Also, there were times when I'd make him sit on my lap after a tantrum. He'd be worn out and more receptive(? not really "receptive" but less likely to fight it) to cuddling. Now he does cuddle with me more, but at first it was a real trial to get him to sit with me.

Trauma in toddlers is an interesting thing and needs some special attention. Re-read (again!) that section in Toddler Adoption. She talks about some of these things in there. Be sure to keep us posted. )

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Originally Posted By Jerry

There's really a couple of ways we've handled this. Holding can and does work, but it can be dangerous for you and the child. I believe that you have to be calm and NOT get angry if you choose to hold a tantruming child (not always an easy task when your being hit and kicked). I don't even think Martha Welch recommends trying a holding when a child is tantruming.

Since really what you're trying to do is "short circut" the tantrum one of the most effective methods we've used is water. Usually a glass of water in the face. Over the weekend I dropped our screaming and writhing child into the pool fully dressed (it's not a deep pool). When she came back up she didn't know what to do, I was assured she was okay so I left her there. The only thing I said is that "I'll be inside with the family, come in when you're ready." Ahah you say!!!! she just played in the pool. She did for about 20 minutes and then came in side, but she was calm. I told her if she wanted to talk about being mad to let me know. She did about 5 minutes later.

I don't think you want to do this when it's cold out, so the glass of water is really the most practical approach. It's important to remember that you don't talk until they're calmed down. DON"T reinforce their bad behavior. The family doesn't communicate by yelling, crying or whinning. Once those behaviors are over we are willing to talk.

Another approach we've used is isolation from the family. Again, the message is we don't want to be around you when you are hurting yourself or others (what goes hand in hand is constructive release of physical tension...later). For now we just put them outside, or in their room. Using the same approach over and over can backfire. Be creative, and be prepared. You can learn the tantrum warning signs and also learn to help your child release some of their anger before they explode. My favorite tantrum avoidance technique is the giant plastic baseball bat. After the first few times of showing the kids how to take the bat out and hit the side of a large tree until tired or feeling better they catch on. Now they'll come and ask for the bat on their own. You'll have to find a good source for these because they are not available year round. I'm looking for a new one now!!LOL!!!

What you don't want to do is be controlled by the tantrum. Because once they learn that, they can make your life a living hell. If you need to, walk away, get away for even a brief moment to "compose" yourself. Our oldest daughter threw a tantrum in the store when she was maybe 3. We told her we had to finish shopping and hoped she wouldn't mind being stared at by the other shoppers while we did that. We didn't get maybe 10 feet and she was up and at our side. Of course we knew that wouldn't continue to work, so future episodes meant being removed from the store and sitting in the car with mom or dad. BUT we read or listened to the radio NOT the tantruming child. We had very few tantrums after age 3 with our first and none with our oldest son. Now we have different varieties with our new 3!!!LOL!! Remember be creative! A few weeks ago the youngest was just about to go full blown and I started jumping around and acting like an excited chimpanzee hopping from the furniture and all (making the most wonderful excited chimp noises I could muster)

  He was so shocked he just stared at me until I went up and hugged him. He said, "daddy, what were you doing!!" I told him I saw a monkey at the zoo who got mad at his dad and that's what he did. He said "oh, do I look like that?????!!!!!

Which brings me to the last technique we've used. The video camera is about as real and stark as you can be. After we talk and if there's ANY question about what happened I bring out the tape. I think this is the one all of our kids hate the most. Use it sparingly, and keep it private. I always ask our kids, "I don't think this is your good side can I erase this now that you've seen it?" They've never asked to keep it.

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It is always difficult to know what a child's life has been like before they came into care. You get bits and pieces of information and it is up to the prospective adoptive parents to fill in the blanks. We knew that our children had suffered domestic violence and substance abuse. What we didn't know is that they went without food and suffered neglect. Those were some blanks that we should have filled in. We didn't make that stuff real. We knew it in words but did not translate it into how that would effect our lives. Our kids inherited some mental illness and personality traits that also explain how their bparents made the choices they made. I later found out that one child, as an infant, had been left in the open trunk of a car at night while the parents were inside drinking. This child was later diagosed with moderate attachment disorder. This child had been removed at 20 months.

I certainly don't want to discourage you, and this precious being deserves the loving home you can provide. Knowing what I know now, I would get an evaluation for attachment. There is so much you can do with early strategies, especially before the age of 3. It is simply a matter of emphasizing eye contact, rocking, singing and focussing on some specific behaviors that you may not normally focus on as much, that can make all the difference in the world. It sounds like a wonderful opportunity for you all.

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Hi Lara - we dealt with some major humdinger tantrums from my son, due to both RAD and bipolar. He has done well with attachment therapy, and medication for bipolar. Hasn't raged in several months (is now 8).

During the real difficult time, his rages were so violent that he was capabale of hurting himself, me and causing serious property damage. For a while his room was totally gutted except a mattress. He even pulled his bed apart (before we removed it) and I was terrified that he would get hurt on the exposed frame.

We had to put an alarm on his door, and locks on his door and window (yes, he did threaten to jump out once, and sat on the ledge picking the paint off the outside window trim). His door was only locked during the violent part of his rage, while I monitored from outside. For him it was too much of a power struggle to prove he could bust the door down when I tried to hold it closed.

The tantrums controlled him and were definately rooted in his past. Once he worked through these issues, he would readily let me comfort him instead of going into a rage. Now when he gets mad - the worst that he does is stomp up to his room. After about 5 minutes alone, he is generally not resistive to my efforts to talk with him. (pretty typical for any 8 year old).

Please don't let my son's story frighten you, this is a worst case scenario. He was much older and much bigger. I would go through it all again in a heartbeat. What I have now, is a wonderful, sweet and loving little boy - who loves his mom dearly!!!!

Dimas Mom

 

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This little girl is said to NOT have attachment disorder (pretty hard to believe). She has, however, been dx with PTSD (based not on her actions according to the psych, but based on the facts of her past and that it is - by definition - traumatic) and suspected "adjustment disorder" which my sw said is a "blanket dx" that many psych put on evaluations to ensure the child gets a subsidy. She is in play therapy and recieves ECI. I am encouraged that she was removed so young (18 months). I'm looking forward to seeing a picture - I have very strong "gut" feelings on a picture....so we'll see!

Keep the advice coming - I love it all!

Lara

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Here goes the mother and nurse in me...

DD(8) (an extremely docile child at that point) was about 4 or 5 when she began having violent behaviors at no certain times - very sporadic - She would yell, kick, scream and call people horrible names. It turned out she had hypoglycemia (her blood sugar levels would drop to 30's and 40's esp. 2-3 hours after she had eaten-worse around noon or early afternoon.)

Hypoglycemia is not a diagnosis the pediatricians use but after testing our ped. said she def. had it -(so does my mother and I)(hereditary?)

Anyway - now we are very conscious of her needs and meals - her teachers are aware and we always have a snack with us or in here backpack - We hardly ever have a problem anymore! I'm glad wew found it before she started school!

I'm sure your new darlings issue is deeper b/c of post trauma but thought ya'll might like to know my story

Best of luck!

Yes - I love to talk - wish I could type faster!!!!!

melissa

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Originally Posted By po

We had a foster daughter that was FAS. She had violent tantrums. I held her one time outside(we couldn't stand the noise inside) for 2 1/2 hours while she screamed at the top of her lungs. If I would have turned her loose, she would kick, hit, and try to hurt herself. She would bang her head on things. She hit it on the head of the bed so hard that she cracked the oak headboard of an antique bed. If I took her to her room she was totally distructive. That was the worst one she had. See if there is substance abuse.