[Perfect7]

Hello everyone! We have potentially been matched again and full disclosure is Monday. The child's cw told us he has Aperger's and has also been diagnosed RAD. However, he is not physically agressive and is bonded with the cw and fm. He definately has Asperger's. The cw disagrees with the RAD diagnosis. So....from what I've read on the net, autism must be eliminated to diagnose RAD. Is that true, or could he have RAD as well? He does not live in a therapeutic group home or attend a structured behaviors class room, he goes to a classroom for autism and other learning disabilities. I'm just confused for seeing RAD and Asperger's together. Is it possible it was two different psychiatrists? Any help is much appreciated as we will be making a decision to move forward or not next week.

[lucyjoy]

I know one child who had both but no longer has RAD.

However, a child can not be bonded to anyone and still have RAD. Can you speak with the doctor who made the diagnosis? He had to have had some basis for it.

What does foster mom say about the RAD? The current therapist? On what basis does the case worker consider the child bonded to her? What is her history like? Does it indicate she was somewhere long enough to have received attachment therapy and bonded?

RAD kids are very good at conning caseworkers into thinking the kids are fine and the foster parents are crazy. My kids case worker said they were energetic and bonded to her. They weren't bonded and were severe RAD. If the child has the diagnosis, as a prospective parent, I would have to assume she has it and procede accordingly.

[Mkuhlmann06]

Im with Lucyjoy, I would procede under the circumstance the child does have RAD. They don't just hand that diagnosis out easily, as they know that once you label a child RAD it becomes much harder to place them for adoption.

There are some parents on here where they were matched with a child not labeled RAD and it took a honeymoon period of a year before they really started to see the behaviors.

I would definitely talk to the current foster mom and ask a lot of questions (ie. type of therapy child is getting, what do they consider bonded, what DR diagnosed him, talk to that DR is possible, what was his early childhood like, was he ever attached to his biomom). There are a lot of wonderful adoptive moms on here that have RAD children, maybe they can give you a bunch of questions to ask for full disclosure. That may prove to be more helpful than trying to prove a diagnosis wrong.

Good luck!!

[Tudu]

I don't know anything about having both dx but I can tell you my kids' CW insisted they were all bonded to her and their FPs. It was not true. My kids were/are great at making people feel like they are bonded, they are extremely charming. It took over a year for one of mine to show her true self even just a little. I have another that faked a speech disorder, it was so severe we couldn't understand more than 10% of what she was saying and when I called her on it one day, it just stopped. I was shocked to say the least. I, personally, will bnever trust a well intentioned CW again. I will only go on what the FP, teacher, and therapists say b/c they are the ones the child sees.

[momraine]

I suspect that it could happen, if an aspergers kid were neglected he would develop RAD. However, an aspergers kid is going to show bonding in a different way. My aspergers kid (bio and definataly not RAD) was never really cuddly and still is not. He does not make eye contact with most people ever. He does with only three people on earth, me, his dad and his brother. His brother is the only person he hugs without a thought. His brother taught him all his social skills and they are very, very close. We have two empty bedrooms in the house and they still share one. My aspergers kid though had he not been cared for as a child would never have figured out how to con people like my RAd son does. My aspergers kid cannot read body language or facial expressions, nor does he use very many. Now, he is also very black and white in his thinking, (he went balistic when he heard someone quote a scripture verse that had been his memory verse and they used a different version, it took him a while to accept different versions of the Bible existed) Had he been removed from me as an young child or infant he would not have accepted another mother or even been able to pretend. (he can't pretend, his brother has tried to teach him, but the very concept bothers him).
Anyway, I would say it would be silly to think a child is bonded to a caseworker, after all how often do they see them? An hour a week at most? Also this would be the person who moves them from one home to another so they would not be someone a child would be happy to see. A child (a normal one at least) bonds with a person who cares for them, it takes time for that bond to form. The person who cares for their needs, food, warmth, dry diapers, etc. That is who they will bond with. I have seen children bond with a nanny or a day care worker they have for a long time, but not with someone they only see sometimes and don't spend very much time with. So I would discount that bonding the CW is discribing. Especially if the kid really is aspergers. Now, I did just remember my aspergers kid did accept his adopted siblings very easily. For him it was again, black and white. You tell me this is my sibling, OK, it's my sibling, case closed. Indy has an aspergers kid too and his is adopted so maybe he has more insight.

[Lorraine123]

I was told that my daughter was bonded with her caseworker and her foster mother. In my case, it was not true. A child with RAD cannot bond. That is what RAD is all about. But, they are very good at faking it and fooling others.

The fact that the caseworker thinks the child is bonded to her says something to me. Like said above, a child can't have a true bond with a caseworker. A bond is built over time by reciprocal give and take. Even my healthy kids could not bond with a caseworker. It just not done. They may like each other, be friends or whatever, but true bonding - no. So, ,I would take that with a grain of salt.

I'm not sure about the autism and RAD diagnoses together. But, they do share some common traits. I would tend to think that a child could have both. I'm not why they couldn't. My daughter came to us with PDD (pervasive developmental disorder) and RAD. So she had both.

Also, like said above, a RAD diagnosis is not freely given to children in foster care. It makes them harder to place and the system avoids that. I would assume the diagnosis is true.

[Peggy]

My daughter is/was diagnosed with RAD. She has a mild case. She can and did eventually bond, but still displays some of the other characteristics. Such as poor boundaries, etc... I was under the impression that RAD was a spectrum disorder and there were degrees of severity. RAD and aspergers together, though I don't know about.

[Perfect7]

Thank you everyone. I guess we'll know more when we read the mountain of paperwork. What we've been told so far is that the fm disagrees with RAD also. She says he gives hugs and his face lights up when he sees her, even though he's not cuddly. He's been there 2 years with her. The RAD diagnosis was before Asperger's and by two different docs. The child never lies, and is called "honest to a fault". He'll tell people they are large or ugly and not know why everyone gets upset. He has problems with changes in routines but makes eye contact. He follows the rules and insists the consequences stay the same every time. He's never been physically agressive but has "meltdowns" when things are unexpected and out of routine. If he's prepared in advance, it doesn't happen. He doesn't steal food because he knows it's against the rules, and he's a stickler for the rules. This is about all we know. The cw has been with him 2 years also, and I guess took a special liking to him. They started out with handshakes and moved into hugs. The cw said he now hugs him tight and sometimes doesn't want to let go. Anyway, I appreciate all the advice. I guess they can exist together and we should look for "red flags". Can anyone tell me what the most obvious flags would be??? Thank you!!

[lovemy6]

Did you have the meeting yesterday? How did things go?

[Kat-L]

Originally Posted by Perfect7

. The child's cw told us he has Aperger's and has also been diagnosed RAD. However, he is not physically agressive and is bonded with the cw and fm. He definately has Asperger's. The cw disagrees with the RAD diagnosis. .

I had a child with attachment issues. The cw didn't believe it, though, because the child was so sweet & affectionate around the cw. The child was also sweet & affectionate with the pizza delivery guy, the dentist, store employees, and every other stranger she came across. The cw actually accused me of "trying too hard" to bond with a child I had as a foster/adopt situation. And not being "understanding" of the child who already had four different mothers by the time she was 4 (in addition to a dozen other placements with family members). Because "Darlene" would give the cw a hug when she visited, she considered "Darlene" to be attached. The cw spent maybe 10 minutes at a time with "Darlene" during these visits. I would take your cw's comments about this child with a grain of salt.

[Perfect7]

I was mistaken about the full disclosure monday. The child's cw is mailing the disclosure packet to our cw, so we're still waiting for it to come in. After we review it, we're supposed to go to a phone conference to ask any other questions, etc. I was looking forward to Monday, but guess we're back to waiting. Should be soon! Thanks for all of your input. Our cw also agreed with you about being skeptical on him bonding to his cw. She thought the fm would offer much more insight. Will keep you updated!

[Again!]

Just a comment on the "honest to a fault." My RAD child (now approching his 1 year anniversary in RTC and no hope of discharge) used to walk up to fat people, look up, smile charmingly and say "fat boy!" or "fat girl!" Could have been interpreted as honest, but it was not, it was simply his way of pushing those people's buttons. Of course, that was far less bothersome than the fire setting and pet killing. Only tantrums were described in his records, though one psychiatrist had dxd him with suspected RAD, the last one to see him pre adopt did not agree.