[lovemy6]

What do I do about an 11 year old compulsive liar? I've told him if he tells the truth he won't get into trouble, but he still chooses to lie. We only punish for lying. He lies about everything. I stopped asking him questions about a year ago. He COMES to me and lies. I tend not to believe anything he says until I confirm it. I'm just so sick of the lies. He's been here 6 1/2 years. We've been through attachment therapy. The lies never ended. Has anyone done anything that actually worked to curb the lying?

[scandi]

I have the same problem with my 10 year old. I haven't come up with anything that works yet so very interested to hear others ideas.

[Howdy]

This doesn't offer any clues or help, but this is a quote I found on a website "...compulsive lying. It is a
symptom, not a condition, and generally stems from self-esteem issues and/or depression in the healthier patient, although it can be part of a delusional or denial system is the more compromised person.

As I said, it's a symptom. The underlying concern is what needs to be addressed."

Have you ever noticed any lessening of the lying? If so, what happened before that?

[lovemy6]

No lessening of the lying really. He was much sneakier about lying for a while. He got away with it a LOT in public school, bc they "didn't want to hurt his self esteme by calling him on it". I never quite understood that one. So he's been home schooled for two years, has found a way to cheat on his school work and tests (they're on line), he lies to everyone, and is just an over all sneaky person.

When asked why he didn't just tell the truth, he SAYS bc he doesn't want to get into trouble. This is after we've told him we just want the truth and a lie will get him into trouble. He sees the consequences the others get, bc they tell the truth, is very minimal. The lies get HUGE consequences that aren't over in a minute.

This has put a HUGE gap in our relationship bc trust is HUGE for me and I don't trust him one speck. At this point I'm ready to disolve this adoption. I can't imagine another seven years of him and his behaviors.

I know, I sound like a terrible person. I honestly started out being an incredible mother. That's why I wanted to foster/adopt, bc I was an amazing mother. Now I feel like crap, bc of this kid!

[Kansas Girl]

lovemy6, I don't have any ideas, just have been dealing with the same issue and feel the same way you do! I agree with Howdy - that's certainly the case with R....he's in such total denial about his issues (and won't do any more therapy because it would be too painful...hmmm - living with the symptoms i.e. bad behaviors isn't?!) I guess you could say his whole existence is a lie to him. I don't remember the author/attachment expert who talks about it- how in cases of early abuse & neglect (as with R), these kids learn to live with the pain, hunger, etc. by denying everything - i.e. everything becomes a lie. They cry, mom doesn't come, they're still hungry, so they tell themselves that they're not hungry etc. With R I don't think it will get better until he deals with the really deep birthmom abandonment issues. While I'm sure there are times when he does tell the truth, he lies so much we don't know what is the truth and what is a lie.....we can't trust him at all. Not a fun place to be. Behavior-wise he's been doing well lately - he's come back around lately and has been compliant - I guess the dichotomy of it all is what's so astounding. For instance, we've always had a big problem with him going someplace else in the neighborhood without telling us where he is. Earlier this evening, when he was at a neighbor/friend's house, he called to ask if he could go to the kid's baseball game. I told him to be back at eight. He calls at seven to ask if he and another kid J (who also went along to the game) can go over to S's house, who lives next to the ballpark. He comes back home at eight with S's mom, who invited R and J over to spend the night with S. S's mom said he insisted on coming home when he couldn't get me on the phone (I was outside) because he knew I would be "mad" if he wasn't home on time!

So, long story short, on one level I have excellent behavior, and on another level....what's the truth?
R is 16....so I pretty much just have to let go and let the natural consequences (be what they may) do their thing.

Fran

[lucyjoy]

When you know he is lying, tell him what he should have said, have him repeat it, then, thank him for being honest and give him the consequence he would have gotten for the deed had he told the truth about it.

Lying can become a habit so retraining is needed. Also, fear causes lying and I know my kids had very strong fight/flight tendencies and lying was an auto defense. It does take a long time of doing this to see results.

[chickymum]

Lately I have just been telling my daughter to lie. She is going to anyway and this takes the control aspect out of it. Remember these kids suffered through some devastating abandonment and now need to have ultimate control so as to protect themselves from the possibility of going through that pain again. For them, telling the truth is like giving in, and being vulnerable.

I honestly do not think there is anything that can change it. Just find a way to not let it bother you. I know, easier said than done right. I struggle with this EVERY day. My daughter has even said that she did break a toy when I know that one of the boys broke it. Her brain just seems to only let out the opposite of what is the truth .

It really does throw her off kilt though when I ask her to answer with a lie. Today she lied and I told her to answer my question again and make sure it was definatly a lie, she gave me the same answer (hoping to call my bluff) and i told her what a good girl for lying just as she was told. A big scowl followed, but I won!

[marythemom]

Right now ALL my kiddoes lie. My one radish (D 14yr), his sister (H 13) who has ODD among other diagnoses, AND my 2 bios (T 9) and (K 11) occasionally.

Some lie to get out of trouble, some lie because they think if they don't it will get them into trouble, some lie compulsively, and some lie to keep D out of trouble because they're intimidated by him.

Missing items (particularly food) are SO frustrating because no one but H ever confesses - and H always says, "I didn't really do it, but I'll say I did." Then the youngest reminds her that will get her put in the FAIR Club (our form of discipline) and she recants.

Because they all lie I can't assume it is any one of them. The food lying I can live with. It's the other stuff that bothers me.

The other day I heard D bragging on the phone to his latest girlfriend that he'd taken his little brother's (T 9yr) socks and hung them in a tree. It was bedtime for T so I mentioned it to him as I tucked him in. He started crying and said that D (190+ lbs!) had sat on him, taken T's socks off, and wouldn't give them back - moving them when T tried to climb the tree to get them. (What bothers me most is T isn't telling me stuff anymore because he's often scared of D).

When I confronted D he "creatively" denied it. He claims the socks were already off (T does often run around barefoot), that T was faking an injury while they were playing (T does that too), and that D took the socks back out of the tree and gave them back to T as soon as he asked - this I don't believe. Sooo, no one got in trouble for the incident and there were no consequences. I know it is not good for D to get away with this stuff, but I don't really know how to handle it either.

Prayers for all of us!
Mary
mom to T(9), K(11), H(13) finalized on 3/27/08!, and her brother D(14)
"I'm not going to vacuum 'til Sears makes one you can ride on." - Roseanne Barr-

[aspenhall]

I don't say anything about the lies...I just say with a sad face"Oh dear" and sigh and walk over and take trust points out of the jar...(which determines the level of trust she gets from me)

Like iff she can have friends over, or play without my supervision, or do things that make a mess or have small parts...basically she gets treated like a 2 yr old...when I can't trust her..

I started lying back to her like telling her we could have dessert, then when she called me on it becasue we didn't have dessert, I shrug and say, oh...I thought you didn't care about the truth...I thought the truth didn't matter to you....

Then she started questioning if my answers were really the truth (sometimes the were and sometimes they weren't) and I'd only reply with, "oh I know you don't care whats the truth, so don't worry about it, it doesn't really matter if I'm telling the truth or not."

I always made sure it was about stuff that didn't relate to her health/well-being or basic needs.

I'll ask her her preference of something then not give her what she choice and just shrug and say, "well, I didn't know if that was the truth or not, so I just picked for you because I don't think you really know what you wanted."

I did that off an on for several months as her lying increased so would mine, and as hers decreased so would mine....

I also told her her eyes change when she is lying to me...so it's no use to lie...becasue I can see it on her face that it's a lie...even if I don't get her in trouble for it, I still know....that shook her confidence in her ability to trick me, and it really did start to show on her face..and her countenance really does darken when she lies, so I'm telling her the truth.