[lucyjoy]

Can someone give me a good description of what this looks like?

Also, what medications are typically used for this?

[aMarylandfamily]

Bipolar.com - Home is a great resource for symptoms and description of onset bipolar which is very difficult to diagnose as it starts often at puberty and escalates ... doctors are very hesitate to diagnose same as it affects the child's future with limitations on career, etc. as well as the child is often unable to honestly share effects he/she is feeling and/or exhibiting.

Bipolar and ADHD symptoms overlap very tightly and often ADHD is the diagnosis on record when in fact it is bipolar and the child is often in crisis as prescribing ADHD medication causes adverse effect on bipolar conditions.

It is tricky in childhood but try there ... the earlier a child is treated for bipolar the better as there is no cure only a learning of how to make life successful with it ... which is much easier said than done!

Hope this helps.

[Lorraine123]

I found this list on NAMI.org website. My oldest son, who I think has undiagnosed bi-polar, had these exact symptoms as a child. It was/is misdiagnosed as many things, ADHD, anxiety disorder. Its hard to diagnose in children from what I understand due to overlapping symptoms.

What are the symptoms of bipolar disorder in children and adolescents?

One of the biggest challenges has been to differentiate children with mania from those with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Both groups of children present with irritability, hyperactivity and distractibility. So these symptoms are not useful for the diagnosis of mania because they also occur in ADHD. But, elated mood, grandiose behaviors, flight of ideas, decreased need for sleep and hypersexuality occur primarily in mania and are uncommon in ADHD. Below is a brief description of how to recognize these mania-specific symptoms in children.

Elated children may laugh hysterically and act infectiously happy without any reason at home, school or in church. If someone who did not know them saw their behaviors, they would think the child was on his/her way to Disneyland. Parents and teachers often see this as "Jim Carey-like" behaviors.

Grandiose behaviors are when children act as if the rules do not pertain to them. For example, they believe they are so smart that they can tell the teacher what to teach, tell other students what to learn and call the school principal to complain about teachers they do not like. Some children are convinced that they can do superhuman deeds (e.g., that they are Superman) without getting seriously hurt, e.g. "flying" out of windows.

Flight of ideas is when children jump from topic to topic in rapid succession when they talk and not just when a special event has happened.

Decreased need for sleep is manifested by children who sleep only 4-6 hours and are not tired the next day. These children may stay up playing on the computer and ordering things or rearranging furniture.

Hypersexuality can occur in children with mania without any evidence of physical or sexual abuse. These children act flirtatious beyond their years, may try to touch the private areas of adults (including teachers), and use explicit sexual language.

In addition, it is most common for children with mania to have multiple cycles during the day from giddy, silly highs to morose, gloomy suicidal depressions. It is very important to recognize these depressed cycles because of the danger of suicide.

What treatments--medications and psychosocial--have been shown to be effective for children and adolescents with this condition?

At this time there are several ongoing studies of how to best treat children, but until more scientific data is available clinicians are left using their best judgement on how to manage using medications that have been effective in adults. These are largely three main types of drugs -- Lithium, anticonvulsants (e.g., Depakote or other valproate products) and atypical neuroleptics (e.g., risperidone, olanzapine, ziprasidone, aripiprazole, quetiapine).

[NeedsANap]

my sister (8) is diagnosed bi-polar, and my mother has found this site- Child and Adolescent Bipolar Foundation: Vital information on bipolar disorder in children, teens, and young adults. - to be a good source of information.

[lucyjoy]

So I should start drinking now?

I know he was on one of this meds at 4 but taken off due to a severe manic reaction. Well, he was on 2 of these drugs, but didn't seem to need them really at that time and there were no diagnosis listed-just lots of drugs.

I'm concerned about using any meds at this point but after the last 2 days, not sure not using them is an option. I wonder if there are diet/suppliment adjustments that would work.

Thanks for the information. It is helpful-not what I wanted to hear, but helpful.

[kay]

I asked a church friend who is bi-polar, and got this response. She's focusing on herself as an adult, but I'll ask her to get more specific about what symptoms P showed, and what they're doing for him. I think his became obvious before adolescence.

P and I both have bipolar mental illness. Bipolar disorder is when your moods vary from depressed to "manic" or vice versa. The mood changes can occur rapidly, like every day or most frequently every week or a month. Some people who have Bipolar 1 cycle with large extremes, like you spend your whole paycheck at the grocery store or you go out and buy a new car or you talk non-stop!!! The last one is how they figured out I was bipolar. Bipolar II is just that you don't cycle as widely. P and I are Bipolar II We cycle from a little mania to depression. For me the depressions have been severe and suicidal. But fortunately, I take medications that control everything now. I rarely get depressed. The most important thing to do is to keep trying different meds to see which ones work best. Like I take 10 different pills and we can't stop any one of them because we are not sure which ones that we added work. If you want specific descriptions of drugs out there you can get it off the web, but for Bipolar right now its:Lithium, Depakote (P takes this), Lamictal (I take this) and others, but those are the big three.

[zebramom]

The other thing is that in child bi-polar the "manic" cycles can come through as aggression rather than mania. When T cycles he is violent, destructive, aggressive, etc. The cycles have gotten less violent since we took him off his ADHD meds, but his anger level is still very high.

We have used Risperdal and for a time, Lamictil. Lamictil does not need blood draws like Lithium does, which is the main reason we went that route. We tried Prozac for a while but the aggression got even worse.

Diet and Supplements can help greatly with this!!!!

[lucyjoy]

Oh, the mania looks like extreme hyperness and non stop talking and constant movement(which I wasn't aware could increase past the 1000miles an hour of his normal self but did this week). His flip side is a feel sorry for me melt down and sometimes a tantrum.

However, he's hitting puberty, has experienced a great deal of loss this year, and his mother his highly stressed so lots of additional factors.

I know certain foods cause reactions so and am concerned about the effects of the meds on his liver.

Zebra-if you were at the beginning on the biomed diet/supplements etc, where would you start?

[jodybird511]

The following is a handout I provide to parents of children that I have diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder in order to help them understand the difference between ADHD and Bipolar Disorder b/c, as a previous poster mentioned, many of the symptoms [i]do[i] overlap.

Distinguishing Between ADHD and Bipolar Disorder in Children

Destructiveness
May be seen in both disorders but children with ADHD tend to break things carelessly while playing, whereas the major destructiveness of children with Bipolar Disorder is a result of anger and severe temper tantrums.

Duration and intensity of outbursts
Temper tantrums in children with ADHD rarely last more than 20 – 30 minutes, whereas children with Bipolar Disorder sometimes continue to feel and act angry
for up to four hours.

Degree of “regression”
Tends to be more severe for children with Bipolar Disorder, including sometimes, disorganized thinking, language and body position. May not even have memory of the tantrum.

Different “triggers” for tantrums
In children with Bipolar Disorder, tends to be reaction to limit setting or being told “no” as opposed to sensory and emotional overstimulation in kids with ADHD.

Moods
Children with ADHD typically do not show depression as a predominant symptom. Children with Bipolar Disorder often display a lot of irritability.

Disturbance of sleep
Very common in children with Bipolar Disorder and can include severe nightmares or night terrors.

Giftedness
Children with Bipolar Disorder often show giftedness in certain cognitive areas—especially verbal and artistic skills.

Misbehavior
Children with ADHD tend to misbehave “accidentally” due to inattention, whereas children with Bipolar Disorder tend to intentionally provoke or misbehave.

Risk seeking
Children with ADHD may engage in dangerous behavior, but it’s because they are unaware of the danger; children with Bipolar Disorder tend to seek out risky behaviors.

Sexual
Children with Bipolar Disorder tend to have a strong early sexual interest and behavior.

Psychotic Behavior
Children with ADHD do not usually exhibit psychotic symptoms, whereas children with Bipolar Disorder may sometimes exhibit gross distortions in reality or interpretation or emotional events.

Medication
Treatment with moods stabilizers typically has little or no effect on ADHD but does improve symptoms of Bipolar Disorder.


***From The Bipolar Child by Demitri Papolos, M.D. and Janice Papolos, 1999.

[lambeausam]

Originally Posted by jodybird511

Giftedness
Children with Bipolar Disorder often show giftedness in certain cognitive areas—especially verbal and artistic skills.


***From The Bipolar Child by Demitri Papolos, M.D. and Janice Papolos, 1999.

Jody quoted a great source, but I have to add one other comment that I bet Zebramom will affirm. Some kids with BPD become quite gifted at lying and stealing.

Can you tell how things are going at our house?

Sam

[mrsred]

Okay, this is pretty scary because most of what you all have said describes my 8 yr old son. Eeek. I know there were definate mental health issues in his birth family. We have sort of danced around the BP dx for years. Psychiatrists are really, really reluctant to give a BP dx to a child. However, the only meds that have had a modicum of positive effects on him are all meds that are prescribed for Bi-polar disorder. Unfortunately, he has had negative side-effects to every one that we have tried.
What we are doing right now, is working on getting his iron levels up to normal. Lucy, if you are hoping to go with a natural remedy, this is where I would start. Get your doctor to order a blood test where they can determine his exact iron levels. Research is finding that childen with low iron levels (not low enough to qualify as anemic, but lower that average) exhibit both ADHD type symptoms and have very low stress tolerance. They will also can be very aggressive.
When we had Elijah's iron levels tested last fall he was indeed low. The psychiatrist started him on 325 mg or iron every night (taken with orange juice as that helps the body absorb the iron). When he was rechecked in February thelevels had not changed at all! This told us that for some reason his body does not absorb or metabilize iron. The psychiatrist then prescribed B1 on top of the iron, as that works with the iron for absorbtion/metabolization. After a couple months when that, and the addition of a low dose of Seroquel hadn't improved his moods or behaviors by Dr's orders, we upped the iron to 325 mg twice a day. And now, we are actually seeing an improvement. He is still a long ways away from a normal child. I still see/hear some pretty bizarre behaviors from him. But he is doing his homework (that used to cause a major melt down just by my suggesting he do it) and hasn't physically attacked foster sister lately.
I don't think we are at the end of this battle by any means, but it has helped some, and is certainly something worth checking into.
Another supplement that they are finding has a positive effect on children with mood disorders is the Omega 3 Fatty Acids (amino acids). These are widely available now, just be sure that what you are getting is of a high, pharmeceutical quality.
Just a note: Nobody should ever give iron to a child without a doctor's supervision as too much iron can be very dangerous.

[Lorraine123]

Lithium caused extreme hyperactivity and aggression in S.

[lucyjoy]

Well I got some assistance on where to start diet wise, where to get some testing done, and suppliments that may help(after testing).

Going to start slow to avoid the shock to his system (and the shock of no poptarts) Hopefully, it'll work.

Thanks for all the great info. I will be looking at that as well.