[Tudu]

How sad is it that we have to teach our children to hug? My oldest still cringes at my touch and will not return a hug. We had to have another "lesson" on hugging a person you care about. WHere to put your arms, how hard to squeeze, and how long to linger.

We have had to make a rule about physical contact with my DH in hopes she will learn to have more apprppriate boundaries with him. She has admitted, finally, to trying to get all his attention away from the kids and I. It was like she was obsessed with him until we stopped her physical contact (she can talk to, hang out with, and do activities with him if they do not have physical contact) now she won't speak to him. It was surprising how she just cut him off like he was no use to her now.

SHe tends to "become" the person she is hanging out with (has all their likes and dislikes she is not her own person kinda like the movie Single White Female in a milder version) be it DH, a friend, or cousin. It happens more often with adult females, any female but me actually. It is becoming scary how she just changes so drastically. Our AT keeps using the phrase, "I don't want to scare you but you need to be prepared about......". She is just so empty. She turns 12 in a few weeks, any ideas how to try to get her to be her own person? I am working very hard but just can't seem to find a person in there. I thought she was close to DH and now she has dropped him and I am worried no one will reach her. Make sense? ANy ideas on reaching her? I do all the attachment stuff (snuggle time, time together alone, line of sight, etc) but after 22 months I fear we have gotten no where and there is a huge ticking clock in the background.

The AT pointed out this week she constantly picks at my weaknesses or trying to find one. She said I am very good and hiding them from her but it doesn't stop her from constantly digging for them. I hadn't really noticed but when she said it I saw it clear as a bell. This child seems to have a deep seething anger that she will not express. How do you get them to show emotions or at least find them? The AT can't figure out how to get her to connect with her feelings either and is becoming increasingly concerned. I would love to hear ANY ideas you have about reaching this child!

[lucyjoy]

Her trouble with dh could be more about her lack of understanding of boundaries. She may have learned that men like certain things and now you're telling her different so the response is to reject before being rejected and to quit before failing. Is your dh still hugging her on HIS terms? Katherine Leslie talked about doing sideways hugs or shoulder pats with her child that couldn't handle regular hugs do to misinterpretation.

Not sure what you all do in attachment therapy, but honestly, to get to the kid that's as locked in as this one, you have to get to the trauma. She is holding all that anger because it terrifies her. If she lets it go, in her mind, the world's going to end. She's pushes for your weak spots because she doubts your ability to hold her anger and her pain.

Have you given her permission to be angry? She has a LOT to be angry about. She's going to need help getting to that anger(controversial or not) but she can't heal until she lets go of it. It's way easier to become someone else then to feel that kind of intense pain.

It seems the therapist should be helping more and providing more suggestions of what to do then just handing you dire predictions.

[zebramom]

Hugs Tudu. You're fighting one of the hardest battles there is with our kids (in my opinion.)

She works to get you angry because she wants you to be angry as she is, rather than her fixing her anger.

She takes on the identity of other people because she doesn't know who she is. My DS is the same way. In order to figure out who she is, she needs to release the anger. Right now that's all she knows about who she is.

If it's not an insurance issue, I'd think very seriously about switching to Barbara & Janice for therapy. At the very least talk to them and see if you can work something out, or maybe do adjunct therapy like EMDR or Neurofeedback along with what you're doing.

[momraine]

Many your daughter sounds so much like my mom. I hope you can help her. I watched my mom all my life find a new friend and become that friend. She would change her favorite foods, her style of dress, hairstyle, religion even claim thier allergies and medical conditions! She named some of my siblings after some of these people. But at home behind closed doors she had these monster explosions of temper. (I have the pysical and mental scars to show for it) She too picked one person to mostly use her anger on. What was even scarier (at lest to me as a child) was that she would often not remember those explosions. She would ask me where my bruises came from and seemed to really not know. What I know of her childhood, I now think she had attachment issues. (her parents divorced when she was a baby, which was unheard of in the 40's and her mom was a total perfectionist in everything and appearance was everything. My mom was left home alone while her mother worked from a very early age.
I hope you can help your daughter, no one understood this stuff when my mom was a kid, maybe my life would have been different if she had gotten help early. Keep trying, you are making a difference. You will be in my prayers.

[Scatterbrain]

No words of advice, just hugs and support. This struggle is a life-long one. I hope you are able to find something that helps your daughter to connect. Each tiny glimpse of emotion is a victory for our children.

[Tudu]

Lucy, the AT says the same thing, we need to get to the trauma. SHe is trying but this kid is really tough. She has been known to be in a "good" mood but still sit for hours of AT w/o a single word and after be fine like nothing happened. We've increased the number of visits per week when she does this but it only seems to push it out longer. It is truly a battle of wills here. We have given her permission to be angry many times, the child has lost somuch she does have a lot to be angry about. She denies it. This AT knows how to push a button or two and does with the other child of mine she sees, this child is just blank. The AT has lots of ideas but nothing is getting to her. I don't think she is giving up by any means, I think she is trying to prepare me for what this child is capable of.

Z, it is an insurance thing. We see Jeff and Casandra, Barbra and Janice's old partners. After meeting all of them, I really like Casandra the best and they accept our insurance which shocked me. We are doing EMDR and Neurofeedback and hope to get it set up at home soon. We have only had one Neurofeedback session with her so maybe we just continue to wait. I am still a bit insecure about doing it myself and understanding what it all means.

We are amazed how much progress all the other kids are making with AT, she is the only one that seems to be getting worse. I had hoped to see progress after her big secret came out last Fall but nothing. I am confident she is keeping her hands to herself now b/c we are so careful but I keep thinking there must be something we are missing that is holding her back. We had planned to allow her a "confrontation" of her parents with the AT b/c she wants one but with the charges still pending it doesn't look promising. She seems very interested in telling them how she feels and wants it in person. Many letters have been written by her to them some sent, some not.

[lucyjoy]

I doubt talking gently or waiting this child out is going to get to her. She does need EMDR but doubt she's ready. I don't know much about the neurofeedback so no help there. Lots of folks on the ATN list use it, if you are on that group.

When she does things that are noticable for you, are you naming the feelings behind the behavior? "I see by your (insert behavior) that you are feeling very angry. Some kids might say "I am angry because(insert thought reason), or "This is hard for me to do because it makes me feel(insert feeling)", or simply have her say "I am mad" at least 3 times in a row and encourage her to yell it if she can. If she does yell it, when she calms, rock and talk and reassure her that she should be mad and that you are there to help her release the mad so she doesn't have to hold it anymore. Sounds nuts, but it can be effective over time.

[MomwithFive]

Just sending (((Hugs)))

[athikers]

No advice from me, just thoughts and prayers. I hope you find some way to reach your daughter.

[Lylac]

Hugs Hugs and more Hugs! and some Prayers too!

[hydroxybutane]

Tudu, I have to say that you are inspirational to me and I'm sure so many others. I can't add anything for suggestions, but I can add my thoughts and my prayers for you and your family. Hugs!

[Lorraine123]

Tudu,

Your daughter sounds so much like mine. My daughter is also very shutdown. I sometimes call her a "non-person" because she has no feelings that are truly her own. I do believe these children are the hardest to reach. Give me a rager any day. I was told by our therapist that an angry raging child is easier to reach than a shut down child. At least a raging child is feeling some type of emotion and that you can work with.

We have tried many therapists, EMDR, neurofeedback, the works and nothing worked. Her anger is so deep and suppressed that nothing got to it. We finally took her to a well known attachment therapist and this is the first person who was able to reach her trauma. It took many months (I'd say over a year) to break into it and we just barely tipped it, but it was a start. Once the anger came out, it really flowed. I have received the brunt of it and its scary, but I do see that its better for her than being shutdown. She will get angry and rage and threaten me and then realize how scared she is of her anger and retreat into herself again. Its a cycle, but I do believe that trauma must be dealt with before anything else can be resolved. Keep digging.

As for having to show your daughter how to do things like hug - I have to do that as well. Your daughter is slightly older than mine, and I have been focusing on showing her appropriate ways to interact in the world. When she hugs incorrectly, I will move her hands and say, this is how you hug your mom. DH does the same. I spend a lot of time saying "I see you are trying to do X" or "I see you want X". I then say "You need to say X" and have her say it.

Good luck with reaching her. A lot of the attachment therapy techniques to get to these children's trauma can be controversial. My opinion, and its only mine, is that without reaching the trauma, these kids have no chance at feeling appropriate emotions. They will remain totally shutdown and will never resolve it themselves.

These kids are tough. Keep delving, keep trying and remember, that others are right there beside you and understand.

Hugs to you, my friend.

Lorraine

[Kansas Girl]

lots of good comments already.....nothing to add but hugs and prayers....


Fran

[AmyAnne]

I wish I had something inspirational or profound to say, but I don't. So HUGS and good wishes to you.