[Michele81]

I haven't been on the boards for a while because our dd, who has been with us for nearly 6 months, has been in & out of the psychiatric hospital for increasingly aggressive behaviors towards me. Not even our attachment therapist, CW, or trauma therapist know how to help us. In-home family services won't be available for another few weeks so I'm desperately trying to keep us together. However, dd has started cornering me in public places, kicking & screaming at me - ignoring her leads to her grabbing me, calmly trying to do the "When you do x, then we'll do y," calling the police leads to temporary calmness until they leave, etc.
I KNOW that this girl (as big as I am at 12) has been hurt & damaged beyond belief, but I can't continue living in my home when I never know if I'll be held hostage inside (exactly how I feel). Reinforcing to her that we all are here to help her but that SHE is the only one who can decide whether or not she wants help has done absolutely nothing. ANY suggestions are appreciated. We have spent so much money on different treatments & now insurance is denying her last hospitalization (putting her fist through a glass door to get at me apparently wasn't "serious" enough!), I've had to quit my job, & although I DO feel occasions of "breakthrough," the safety issue is too important to ignore. Thanks, Michele

[Tudu]

Reading this reminds me that I am so lucky my kids were so tiny when they came here. They were much as you describe but small enough I was able to hold them to keep us all safe. There were times I vented here about being in public and feeling like I was held hostage. For me it got better with time but it took about a year to look back and realize there had been progress. I am sure you will get wonderful ideas from other folks here. I am sorry things seem so bleak for your family.

[kay]

Michele,
I have no words of advice, just massive amounts of sympathy and empathy. I was in a similar situation to yours (though not nearly so extreme) and I did disrupt. The child (also 12) just needed so much more than I could provide. If you are not safe, I think the decision has been made for you. Very, very sad. I hope someone else can offer good ideas. (((((Hugs))))) to you.

[lucyjoy]

Am I reading correctly that this child is your first child? I want to go smack a few case workers. This child's needs indicated that she should have been placed in a highly trained, experienced theraputic home. She should also have a medical card paying for these hospital stays and a high enough monthly subsidy to cover having a 24/7 stay home parent that HER needs require her to have.

This was a placement set up for failure from the start. Did you know this child had these violent outbursts? I guarantee this isn't new.

If you want to keep this child, you need a highly trained attachment therapist to assist you in setting up your home as a theraputic home and to work with the child's past trauma.

Likely, you are in for a very hard road just getting her to 18. If this is NOT the life you think you can lead, then do disrupt. This is an agency failure, NOT yours. How sad for this child that they would not look after her very real needs. No matter how wonderful a parent you are, getting blindsided and railroaded and stuck in the warzone with no preparation for war just really is unfair. It would be hard enough had you been told openly about her issues, had the right services in place and been trained for this, but to do it blind-what a nightmare for you.

Hope you can find the decision that brings you the least amount of pain.

[Kat-L]

Originally Posted by Michele81

I haven't been on the boards for a while because our dd, who has been with us for nearly 6 months, has been in & out of the psychiatric hospital for increasingly aggressive behaviors towards me. Not even our attachment therapist, CW, or trauma therapist know how to help us. In-home family services won't be available for another few weeks so I'm desperately trying to keep us together.

Oh my gosh, Michelle. I remember when you started the adoption process and were waiting for ICPC. The little girl seemed so sweet. It must be devastating to have your house in such an uproar. I can't even imagine. {{{hugs}}} I'm sorry for you. It sounds like this child needs more than you can give her. Please don't put yourself in a position to be injured if you know she's dangerous. I would keep things locked up (like knives and sharp objects) just to limit their availability to her. Could your husband stay home with her for a few days to give you a break? She may not be as physical with him because he'd be bigger.

No one would fault you if you had to let this child go. It's okay to say "I'm in over my head and I can't help her.". It sucks to say it-because no one wants to admit that their child can be so out of control..But if you need to do so, for your own well being and safety (and your emotional health and your marriage), then please disrupt. It's not worth your life and happiness. Parenting is supposed to bring us SOME joy. You just sound scared. I'm sorry for you. I really am. Stay safe. I hope everything works out for you. It will be easier to disrupt the placement now than after finalization.

[dadfor2]

though I hate to see kids deing disrupted, it has been such a short time. Is she on meds?

Maybe she needs to go an RTC if she is not safe. My son did go to an RTC and it made the world of difference. NOne of these short stays in the hospital, the child really needs to be evaluated by professionals who deal with these type of kids and get the treatment that she may need.

I dont think by distrubting and having her go to another family with a disruption on herr record is going to help her.

get her in an Residiential treatment center.

I am so sorry, but we had the same issues when my older son came. We were prisoners in our house because we couldnt take him in public.

so sad, but there is help. Im not buying that no one can help her, that is obserb. But she is not going to get the help that she needs when she cant function in a family.

was she in a foster home before or in a program when you got her?

[Kansas Girl]

I agree with Lucyjoy and Kat....what a tough situation.
I too know the feeling when a child is strong, approaching the same size as you and raging....horrible. Our son has healed through attachment therapy and the therapeutic parenting we learned from the attachment therapist. PM me if you want info on this therapist - if he could help our son at age 14 he's very good in my book.

with prayers and hugs,
Fran

[Michele81]

Thanks for all of the hugs and suggestions. Although I do agree that every child deserves a family, Florida retains legal custody & can remove her from us forever if placed in an RTC (I already investigated this - we wanted to try an RTC to see if long-term care & gradually resuming family activities would help). The word is that by doing this, "WE" are preventing dd from possibly getting another home - yeah, right! I'm thinking about having her admitted to one & letting those "in the know" TRY finding another family for her - then we could still be there for support throughout her life whether or not we adopt her.

We did have therapeutic parent training but after the fact so it was kind of hit or miss. One problem is that in PA, a parent is not permitted to restrain a child for ANY reason - it's considered abuse, but apparently it's not abuse when the kid abuses the parent! Even the police have told me to "get rid of her - we don't have time to keep visiting you!" This is AFTER I did TWO presentations to them about attachment disorder & how integral they could be in helping her remain in the home if at all possible!

She is our first child (dh is just 51 & I'm almost 48) & we were willing to parent a challenging child as long as she did not have a history of violence! Needless to say, after her placement the history was discovered. We were told & it was documented that she was suicidal - turns out that she managed to harm herself in the process of aggression towards others so this is how the system people chose to misrepresent her.

Anyway, tonight was too perfect so I know another storm is around the corner. I needed to read what others who have lived or who are living this life to help me make a decision. I'm also meeting with our attachment & trauma therapists this week because I need as much support as I can get!

Michele

[MomwithFive]

Oh, that's so difficult. I had to disrupt a placement as the child was a danger to herself and my other children. We had tried to work with the child for a long time but she really needed more one on one attention. The child is now in a great home, getting one on one attention and thriving.
I hope the therapists are able to help you. (((hugs))) It's a hard situation to be in.

[marythemom]

We are in a very similar situation with our now 14 year old son (he's 5'9" and 200lbs and very aggressive - but luckily "only" toward men and people who are bigger than he is).

We feel LUCKY that he's from out of state and his adoption is not final yet because it meant that the state HAD to pay for his RTC (Nebraska, unlike Texas, pays for up to 18 months of RTC care). Our son is from Nebraska (we're in Texas). He's been out of RTC and back with us for only 1 1/2 weeks (we had him for 7 months before he went into RTC for 5 1/2 months).

That's horrible that you can't get your daughter the help she needs! I wish I had advice. We still might end up not finalizing the adoption because even with RTC and tons of meds he's still got major issues (as does his sister, but she's not anywhere near as aggressive). He's diagnosed with RAD, bipolar, PTSD, conduct disorder, ADHD...

Mary
mom to biokids T(8) and K(11) and hoping to finalize soon on C(12) and someday her brother D(14).
If "that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger..." just call me Superwoman!

[kittymari]

keeping you ALL in my prayers!

[PabloandCarlosMama]

You are in such a hard place. My older son, age 12, has had severe problems, and is very strong. I, too, cannot live with violence, and fortunately, he is benefitting greatly from residential treatment. My situation is different in that we've had an international adoption, but if you haven't contacted an attorney who specializes in adoptions and foster care, I would encourage you to do so. There might be ways of safely helping your daughter without having to disrupt. I don't have any other advice, other than to be kind to yourself. You are in a hellish situation, and you are no doubt doing the best you can. Safety is everything. Take good care of yourself, and I hope that you all get the help that you need.

[Empty_Nest]

Been there, done that.

You have a couple choices. You can continue to live your life in fear and turmoil, or you can let go of a child you were not prepared for and who authorities misrepresented to you.

I hate to talk about money, but the way it sounds, you do not have the resources to effectively deal with the problems this child has. Most people don't, and it's not your fault, so don't feel guilty about that. Given that reality, what is really the option? Keep her and just hope and pray she doesn't kill you, your husband, herself, or someone else?

One thing you didn't mention, but which to me sounds highly likely, is she will eventually make a false allegation of abuse. If you think lilfe is hell now, wait until she finds someone in authority who believes her sad tales of abuse. Then the fun will really begin. If you cannot afford thousands for her RT, then can you afford thousands in legal fees to keep yourselves out of jail?

I was once given a good piece of advice by a woman who, at the time, was a leading expert in the adoption of tough children. At the time, we were struggling with the same decision you are. She told me, first of all, that we had taken on the toughest kids in America. I had never thought of it that way, but it's true. Kids do not end up being advertised nationally if they're easy to place locally or within their own state. But what had the most impact on me was the big hug she gave me and her telling me that sometimes, as painful as it is, you have to perform surgery. I will never forget that. I think she was the first and one of the very few since who didn't judge our decision to disrupt, and who truly understood there are some kids who cannot be successfully parented by your average, garden-variety parents. Not all kids can be reached, and sometimes you're better off using your resources to help a child who can be reached.

Please PM me if I can offer you any support. We made this decision three times, and it never got easier. The last two disrupted in 1989. To this day, I feel guilty about it, although I now know after all these years we made the right decision. We were in over our heads and hung out to dry by the placing agency, just like you are.

It's ludicrous they're already trying to book you for a major guilt trip (YOUR FAULT this child wouldn't be able to find a home if you let her go? Give me a break!)

Try to get some evaluations done by a psychiatric team, in-patient if possible. Don't bother with counselors or even psychologists. You need someone who understands the relationship between the mind and body, and who can prescribe meds if needed. This child is beyond talk therapy at this point. When we made the choice to disrupt our two youngest, the decision was made with the input of teachers, our placing worker who had been very involved during all the problems, and a psychiatric team at a major hospital where the kids ended up on an emergency basis. Those two kids had been in counseling to that point, and the wonderful counselor kept telling us there was nothing wrong with us, even when they creepy-crawled the house at night, tried to set the house on fire, peed in their dresser drawers, abused the pets, and raised every red flag in the book. I guess that counselor didn't read the same books I had, because he kept telling me those behaviors weren't a problem. When I told the psych staff about the counselor's opinions, they just shook their heads in disbelief. Anyway, get to some people who have a clue. There is something major wrong with your daughter, and don't let anyone tell you you're the crazy one and her behavior is normal. Yes, that does happen. It sounds like the cops are sort of doing that already.

I'm sure you realize you need to document, document, document. You're under such stress now you will forget important details later if you don't make notes, and it's essential you are able to explain to workers and others what has happened, when, what brought it on, and things like that. You need to show what you've done to try to solve this mess, both to yourselves later on, and to the placing agency in the other state, and God forbid, CPS.

And brace yourself for abuse from your placing agency, too. I was told by the SW at our placing agency it was our fault the kids acted like they did, even though they had documented incidences of problems through years of foster care. They had told us before placement the foster parents were lying about the behavior. I was reamed up one side and down the other because the kids weren't in heavy-duty counseling, even though they were never in counseling and were never even evaluated by that very same agency before being offered for placement. Our local SW, who was overseeing the placement for the out of state agency, told us we could not have screwed those kids up to that degree if we had beaten them 24-hours a day, seven days a week, from the moment they got on the plane to come home with us until the day they left. She saw major problems with them during her first visit after the kids arrived. Don't let your placing agency make you feel guilty. This is on them, not you. They knew about this child's problems and knew you weren't equipped to handle them and placed her with you anyway. THAT IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!

My heart goes out to you. I know how torn you are about your decision. Please PM me if you need a sympathetic ear. Best of luck and [[[[[[[[huggy]]]]]]]].

[skirbo]

Okay, Michele, I've tried pm'ing you, tried emailing you from your profile, and now I'm posting this.

Your daughter's caseworker telling you that Florida won't allow you to RTC her without removing her from you is a load of horse hockey. I work for DCF as a paralegal, in the legal office of one of District 1's counties.

PLEASE send me a pm and let me know what county your daughter is from. I'd like to try and help you get the services you need, including a residential treatment stay, if you still want them.

If you don't want help from me, please do email Governor Charlie Crist and Department Secretary Bob Butterworth. That always gets results.

Sarah

[Howdy]

Originally Posted by Michele81

...However, dd has started cornering me in public places, kicking & screaming at me - ignoring her leads to her grabbing me, calmly trying to do the "When you do x, then we'll do y," calling the police leads to temporary calmness until they leave, etc.
I KNOW that this girl (as big as I am at 12) has been hurt & damaged beyond belief, but I can't continue living in my home when I never know if I'll be held hostage inside (exactly how I feel). Reinforcing to her that we all are here to help her but that SHE is the only one who can decide whether or not she wants help has done absolutely nothing...

Michele {{hug}}, it IS scary. I don't know what to suggest. My daughter has been with me a few years and we have a great bond, and yet at 11 with the hormones starting to rage she is sometimes scary. She blocks me from going past her, and trying to ignore it doesn't do any good, trying to talk about doesn't seem to do much good, I don't know what to do though I do point out it is abusive and that I have the right to free movement! Of course then she claims the same right and has apparently a hard time understanding that children do not have all the same rights as the adults.

I feel so distressed by my daughter's behavior even though it is mostly self-destruction on her part and we do have a nice quantity of history and attachment together, I cannot imagine how you must feel with a new child who is acting so badly.

It doesn't sound to me like your daughter is ready for a family. It is a very hard situation, for you to know that the support and love of a family would be a good thing for her, but seeing that she is not able to handle it. There doesn't seem to be any point in letting her hurt you or destroy your family, that will not help her heal. But naturally you do not want to be another injury to her by rejecting her. On the other hand, by you being controlled and/or abused by her that adds to her perception of herself as bad (unless she is beyond those feelings, in which case I see no reason you would even consider keeping her), and taking the necessary actions (such as disruption) to preserve your rights to a safe life could be role-modeling to her what a healthy person does.

I guess if it were me I would disrupt. If you don't disrupt, can you get Medicaid for her? My daughter was adopted through foster care and so she 'came with' Medicaid insurance, though I guess it runs out at 18 yrs which might become a problem.