[athikers]

We are mediating with Pixie's parents on Thursday regarding a POSSIBLE identified surrender. We're not getting our hopes up, because we know there are several family members still involved at this point. But anyway... here's what we're thinking. I need input as to things I've forgetten.

Please do not scold me on the level of openness... I can't go into the details of Pixie's little life, but suffice it to say I am not scared for her when it comes to time with her mother or father. And, she will not be left alone with them.

We will agree to send pictures quarterly during her toddler/preschool years and twice a year after that. We will also send an update letter with the pictures (we already do this THREE TIMES A WEEK! for visits, so four times a year is NOTHING) We would prefer quarterly contact and then bi-yearly contact during those same times frames BUT, we are willing to accept anything up to monthly contact. In fact, we are willing to VERBALLY agree to more than monthly, but we're not thinking we want to put it in writing.

We would like to have visits with her half-brother as well... she's not met him at this point (how often?)

And, we are fine with contact and occasional visits from extended family (can a child really have too many aunts and uncles? we don't think so).

Okay, on to the particulars... currently, they have visits at a visitation center and all rules of that center will apply at future visits.

If they do not use their visits, they lose their visits. Unless we decide its in Pixies best interest to continue the visits at that frequency.

Once Pixie is a certain age, should she be allowed to decide whether or not she wants to attend visits? Increase visits?

If either party leaves the immediate area (moves), the face-to-face visits schedule will be re-evaluated at that time.

Pixie's parents will refer to us as her mom and dad. I'll ask them how they would like us to refer to them.

What am I forgetting?

And lastly..... AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I'm so nervous.

[missw005]

Wow, Ath, I'm impressed! That's quite a list you have already! And you are SO right with verbal vs. written agreements - you have no idea how the bparents' future lives are going to turn out, and you don't want it to bite you in the butt later on.

The only thing that struck me was sib visits - I'm assuming a birth parent or relative has the brother.....if that's true, perhaps have visits with him at the visitation center as well. I'm thinking once/twice a month, and see how that goes? Good for you to try to keep that relationship going.
You can always change that later if that relative is a safe relative. I don't know if they are or not, but their relationship with you & Pixie might change (ie, they become bitter after her bparents surrender her to you) in the future and that way you're protected. Did that make sense???

As for Pixie deciding about visits, I'm not sure about that. On one hand, they may be so upsetting to her in the future that it might be a great idea. On the other hand, she may say she doesn't want visits when she really does, but doesn't want to be disloyal to you and dh.
Also that teenagerish age is messy.
On the other hand, I have several students in that position - and I know the visits are detrimental to them, and they know it too - but they don't have the option to stop the visits. Hmmmmmm. So it may be good for her to have that option.
I don't know.

The moving part is very proactive, excellent point!
As is the "we're mom/dad, you are__________."

Ok, just re-read my post, not sure if I was helpful or not. Sorry!

Anyway, I think you've got a great list going. Maybe ask the visitation center or the SW if they have a general "list" of things to ask/not to ask for?
And I'm sure you'll get a bunch o' suggestions from everyone here.

Good luck and I hope it all goes as you wish!!!!!

Sandy

[athikers]

The sib visits are with her father's son. He does not have custody of the child, so it would be arranged with his bio mom. I'm not sure how it would work at this point.

I couldn't sleep last night and I think I got a pretty good draft going for the meeting. We'll see.

[zebramom]

One thing I would make sure to put in all of this is that visits, contact, etc. would be as long as it's in Pixie's best interest.

When we first took placement of T we did visits and contact with his bio grandparents. He lived with them for a while and we felt that continued contact would be in his best interest. We were very wrong.

Seeing them was a trauma trigger and with every visit he feared that he would leave our home again. He was not able to verbalize this, instead he broke a piece of glass in a picture frame and slashed the back of his hand 13 times.

We discontinued visits immediately, which they were not happy about, but I had to do it. We maintain contact in written form only and I am very honest with them about how T is doing. I don't sugar coat things.

You need to have the option of discontinuing any or all contact if it is not in Pixie's best interest. There may very well come a day when she decides she doesn't want it, or can't handle it.

Keep all visits in a neutral location. We initially did visits at T's grandparent's house, which was where he lived with them. He couldn't handle it. Then we switched to parks or restaurants with play areas where he could "escape" if he was becoming overwhelmed.

I think you're being very generous in what you're offering. By law, once the parental rights are terminated you don't have to do anything.

We'll say a few prayers for you and let us know how things go.

[aspenhall]

I'd say at age 7-8 she can start to have input regarding her visits...

Also, with her brother, I'd say "how often does she see her other cousins?" set the visit schedule according to that to begin with...the end should say, all agreements subject to Pixie's best intersts and emotional capability.

[DianeScraps]

If visits are going to continue at a visitation center who will pay for them

I agree on by age 7-8 the child needs to have a say on visits.

I would strongly recommend some type of consideration about criminal or immoral behaviors. Specifics as to what will happen if there is any

[athikers]

Thanks everyone for your input.

We do plan to have the visits at a neutral location... possibly at the visitation center in winter and then outside in spring/summer/fall. If they are at the center, we will each have to pay a small amount.

I will add in about the visits being in Pixie's best interest and stopping them if they are not.

I did put in that when she is old enough/mature enough she can make her own decisions regarding visits.

Thank you for the note about criminal/immoral behavior... I will add that in.

In regards to her brother, it is US that want the contact in that case... I think she deserves to grow up knowing her brother. They are only a year apart in age and I think it could be really good for them. I don't know him, or his mom, but we will see... that will be negotiated separately.

Z, I do understand that once they are TPR'd they have no rights to see her. However, once they are TPR'd we could very well LOSE her, since WE have no rights either. She would likely be placed with a relative she's not met. We do not think that is in her best interest, so we are trying to avoid the TPR trial altogether and get her parents to do an identified surrender.

[athikers]

We knew this could happen and it did. Mom flaked on mediating with us tomorrow... and does not seem willing to reschedule. Court begins next week. So, we are back to the powerlessness and waiting to see if somehow, miraculously, we are chosen over the relatives. Our state law is NOT in our favor.

[zebramom]

Oh Ath, I am so sorry. We will say many prayers.

[Barksum]

Oh, Ath. (((hugs))) and prayers for your family.

[Sissy22]

aw hang in there

[missw005]

I'm so sorry, Ath.
Hopefully the judge will understand how bonded Pixie is to you and you and dh are to her.
I have been there, and it is sooooooooo difficult.
My thoughts are with you. (((((((( hugs )))))))))))

Sandy