[missw005]

Most of you know my problem with my mother and our issues of late. After making threats, nasty comments and more, I told her she was done having weekly visits with the boys. (she was visiting them every Sunday for 15 minutes) (yes, that's it, I'm not kidding)

Anyway.....it's now been a couple weeks since the boys have seen Toxic Grandma. Q (my youngest) is doing fine with it. He did like getting a card from her last week, but hasn't really asked too much about seeing her. J (my oldest) on the other hand, is really bothered by it. He is her favorite (without a doubt, as it's been commented on by other people as well and not just myself) and can rarely do wrong unless he's really nasty/violent or is having a meltdown.

Today J told his sp. ed. teacher that he had a horrible stomachache and needed grandma. I work in another town about 1/2 hour away, and the emergency call list has my brother, mother and daycare mom. So the school called her, and she & my brother went up to the school as it's extremely rare that J asks to leave school due to being sick.
I thought something was fishy, and had this strange voice mail on my cell phone (which does not work in the city I work in, so I didn't hear the message until after I picked up the boys at daycare) from my brother. Also my daycare mom thought it was odd that the school just didn't call her to pick J up as that's where the boys go if they need/have to go home early.

So I finally got ahold of my brother once we got home, and he told me that at first J told he and my mom that he had a really bad stomachache, but it quickly came out that he just really missed Grandma and wanted to see her.

My guess is that he does not know what's going on between her and I, and frankly doesn't want to know as he's not involved in family stuff.

Anyway, I sent him to his room after explaining that he was in trouble for lying to everyone about being sick, that everyone got worried when they thought he was really sick, when in fact he was just lying.
I also explained that it was okay to miss grandma, okay to love grandma, and everything else - but that lying about being sick just to see her was WRONG.

I also reminded him that he'd be seeing grandma in a couple weeks at Q's family birthday party. (which I am soooooooooooooo not looking forward to)

I totally understand that he misses her, and I try to get him to talk about it, but he won't say anything. I reminded him that this is between Mommy and Grandma, and not his or Q's fault, but I think I'm saying the wrong things here.

Help!! Any advice??? I don't want to scar him emotionally, as he's somehow forgotten the stuff that she said that nasty day, and obviously just wants his grandma back.
I am NOT ready to let grandma back into our lives.

What can I do???

Sandy

[waited2long]

Can he and Grandma stay in touch through letters or email?

It's less intrusive, but still gives your son the contact he seems to miss.

[aspenhall]

first off, take her OFF the call list. BEyond that I don't know..

[Again!]

If that wasn't an attempt to manipulate, I don't know what is! If he just 'wanted to see Grandma' he would have said that. He is splitting, which I also see very often in my RAD kids. Be aware and careful.

[Guppy]

We have this most disfunctional grandmother I can imagine and yet, when I told my son (3) that we might move away (we stay with them) his first response was: I will miss grandmom. (I thought to myself: oh, good grief!) but said: we can visit her (etc.) It just is part of his security feeling to see her or something, he talks about her as integral part of our family.
It's a shame that you don't have somebody else who could visit with grandmom (like I have my husband) That way kid sees her and I dont' have to. And there is another adult who's superwising it all.
Really no advice, I'd do like phonecalls I think. And color a picture for her and send her a card and such. Photograps on digital camera and crap like that.
Hugs

[Lorraine123]

I see it as manipulation and I would not allow it. JMO

[missw005]

Well, she finally called last night. I'm thinking, "to apologize!", but NO. She says that she did not make threats (saying you're thinking of calling CPS on me is NOT a threat?) and that she just wants to "help" me with my bad parenting.
Uh-huh.
And that my "accusations" of the boys having special needs is just that. I reiterated that she has never tried to learn about kids with special needs - taken a class, read a book, nothing, in the 6+ years they've been here.
Nope, change the subject. She wants me to come to her house tomorrow for brunch. I said (repeatedly throughout the conversation) "so you're not going to apologize." Nope. At one point she goes into her usual "well I'm sorry if I was such a bad parent in your eyes." I reminded her this had nothing to do with anything, that the issue was her threats of taking the boys away and calling CPS. That her threats upset the boys terribly, and that they were crying and paranoid of being taken away for days. She said "Well then I'm sorry they felt that way." Of course, taking NO ownership of HER actions.
(banging head)
She kept repeating that she wanted me to bring the boys tomorrow for brunch, and that "if I needed to" we could talk. I said, "but you're not going to apologize." She changed the subject.
We went back and forth for awhile, but all the time I'm thinking/realizing/coming to terms with the fact that she is NOT going to change. She is NOT going to apologize. She is NOT going to learn or attempt to learn/understand/deal with the boys' special needs. She does not and never will get it.
Finally I told her that as soon as the house sells, we're moving. "Where?" she asks. I tell her the Cities, and she says, "so you're taking the boys where you'll have NO family support." I said, "WHAT family support? You mean the 15 minutes on Sundays you visit the boys and the less than 6 times a year I see my brother and his family, on the boys' birthdays and holidays?" I told her I would have friends, folks from our adoption group and families from our transracial foster/adoption group for support - for me AND the boys.
I also told her that I needed to put the boys first, not her, my dad or my brother. That I haven't always made them my first priority and that will never happen again. That what's best for them emotionally, educationally, culturally and everything else is for us to move to the Cities. That they're not getting what they need here, that their needs are going to get worse as time goes on, and that those needs cannot be addressed where we live now.
She again began comparing them to my childhood (more bad parenting comments) and them to my brothers' kids and I hollered that she didn't get it. That my kids have special needs, that they can't be compared to anyone else, as nobody up here (that she knows) has special needs like the boys, and that it is NOT going to change, they are not going to be cured some day, and that they will ALWAYS have special needs.
She changed the subject and asked again whether I'd bring the boys to her house for brunch tomorrow. I said I didn't think anything had changed. She added again "and we can talk" and I replied "but you're not going to apologize?" Silence. She asked again whether we were coming, and I said I'd have to think about it but that it was highly unlikely, but I'd let her know.

So here's what I'm thinking:
I know my mother is NOT going to change.
We will be moving within the next year (please God make it soon) and since I know she will unlikely visit us 4-1/2 hours away, this will be the last major amount of time that the boys will spend with her, except for holidays.
The boys love her dearly, and don't have many other family connections. In fact, she is their primary relative they love most and who loves them back. Dysfunctional as she is, I know she loves them.

Knowing these facts, is my keeping them from her selfish on my part? That my need for her apology and to change her way of thinking is more important than the boys' emotional well being? Am I using my issues with her without thinking of the boys first?
Since she does spend a limited amount of time with them (her choice, she has never asked to keep them overnight or more than an hour or two), would it be more benefecial to not take them away from the grandma they love?

I feel like I'm da**** if I do and da**** if I don't. I'm also getting my butt chewed from my father, yes, her EX, about how I need to "let bygones be bygones" and just "let it go."

This really SUCKS. Add to that the complete lack of any prospects to buy my house................I'm just screwed and feeling beat up by life. I'm trying really hard to focus on all the blessings, and all the good things, of which there are many, it's just that dealing with this emotional blackmail every day is exhausting.



Should I let them go? They'll see her next weekend for Q's birthday party - I promised that already.
Should I tell her she can pick them up and have them back in an hour? Should I go with them, and explain beforehand there will be NO discussion, as I know it'll lead to a screaming match?

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, my brain hurts just trying to figure what's best.

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Sandy

[Lorraine123]

OK, heres my opinion. You may not like it.

The boys love her dearly, and don't have many other family connections. In fact, she is their primary relative they love most and who loves them back.

I don't see how your boys have such deep love for someone they only see 15 minutes a week. You cannot develop that in such a limited amount of time.

I think this love that your boys are claiming is a guilt trip for you. I think they are manipulating you like crazy.

I would NEVER let my children go with someone who is so dangerous to their wellbeing. And I would tell her that and I would tell them that.

Let them know that you don't think its in their best interest for them to spend time with her. You are the mom and you know best. Nothing much more needs to be said.

I don't see how losing 15 minutes a week would be so damaging to them. I really don't.

[waited2long]

For now, I would stick to your original plan of no visits until the birthday party. After the party you can decide if you want to start visits again. I'm afraid if you cave-in now, she and the kids will expect you to cave in the future (and it will be harder for you to not cave).

Good luck.

[MamaS]

waited2long is right imho. You cannot cave on this. Both your mother and the boys will see you as easy to manipulate if you do. Go to the party next week. That way you keep your promise. Hopefully there will be enough people there to keep any intensive or high decibel conversations from occurring.
Get started on moving. Actively DO SOMETHING to move it forward -- job search, school search, house for sale, yard sale, etc. Talk about it casually with the boys, stressing all the good things about moving. Raise their excitement level. Look toward the future and ignore the grumbling of bitter grandma. YOU ARE THEIR MOTHER. YOU MUST CHOOSE WHAT IS BEST FOR THEM.

[waited2long]

I thought of something else, since you're moving it will probably be best to get your kids used to not seeing Grandma very much anyway... Maybe think of this as weaning your boys from her so that they will be less upset when you move?

[qs mom]

WOW, everyone seems to want to manipulate you. I would skip brunch and wait for the party. I would also have a serious chat about lying to see grandma. That manipulation needs to be squashed immediately.

Next, she will NEVER apologize. Is it that important to you? She could say the words and not mean them. Either way, she wouldn't mean a thing she says. You know she won't say she is sorry, let the need for an apology go. In the long run, you will feel better, because you won't feel so angry about those words.

Then, you need to do something to force her to realize that your kids are special needs. My mom didn't get it either. Until I took her with me to an event with my son. When she saw that my son DID NOT act like every other kid in the room, she realized that she was wrong, I wasn't. It was an eye opener for her. She never would have seen it otherwise.

Good luck.

[stevenstwin]

Whether or not it is manipulation, I think the bottom line is that children should NOT be around adults who are going to undermine their parents. She thinks you're a lousy parent, and that is going to come through to the boys even if she doesn't say it direclty (and frankly, I wouldn't trust her as far as I can throw her...). I think you've got to cut the ties so you can regain your own equilibrium right now. YOU are their family and it is most important that you make it a STRONG, unshakeable foundation - then other (safe and healthy) people can be added later. Sorry you have to deal with such a negative mom! :-(

[missw005]

Here's what I emailed to my mother:

We will not be coming for brunch tomorrow.
You can see the boys at Quay's family birthday party next weekend. I do not know the exact day or time as I'm waiting to hear back from Nick (my brother) about his family's schedule. I will let you know once he tells me.

Well, here's the answer I got this morning. I cracked up at the "love, mom" part, she NEVER says/writes that. Good grief.

I tried to phone you back to say that I could pick up the boys if that would work better but your line was busy for some time. It's probably just as well since I overdid today and will need to rest.
Love,
Mom

I agree with you all, that contact between her and them needs to be SEVERELY limited. What I'm going to do after the birthday weekend, I have no idea. We usually don't do Thanksgiving - it's not a fun holiday, the boys have food issues - and the stress is just not worth it for me. Ugh.

Q's mom - yeah, I realize she'll never apologize, and if she does, she won't mean it. At the time, it was just the point. I know she doesn't think she's done anything wrong. As for her seeing their special needs, she has a couple times. Once at a family thing - one of the boys' birthdays, I think - she lost it with his behavior, dragged him out of the room, swatted him on the butt and put him in timeout on the steps (where he had been already a few times since they'd arrived). I was shocked, she usually doesn't do/say anything when he's out of control or mean like that. But then she forgets about it, or pretends it didn't happen (her personal mantra: if we pretend it didn't happen, then it didn't happen). Does she get the rest of it - beyond his control/behavior issues? Unlikely. But I know that'll never happen.

MamaS - I wish it was that easy! The bottom line is that I HAVE to sell the house first. And the market is really REALLY bad where we live - there are tons of houses in town for sale, including my next-door neighbor. I am looking into Google advertising, though, and hope I can figure that out today. Apparently they put a link to your business/ad/whatever on the right side of the screen (search results on the left), and you only pay for it if people click on your specific ad. I don't completely understand, though, and my budget is pretty tight, so we'll see about that. I can't do anything else until the house sells, unfortunately. Although I did find a house that I really, really want in the school district I want the boys to be in!!! (does that count?)

I don't know where we'll go from here. My friends are NOT surprised by her behavior, but feel it's cruel to keep her away from them. My dad is now ticked off at me, though that's not a big deal as we rarely see him - but he does help me out financially at times, so that could become sticky. I'm not sure if my brother will get involved - I doubt it - and for the most part I could care less.
Lord, my family is dysfunctional!!!

On a HAPPY note, I am in match committee for a couple different kids/sib groups in the beginning of November. One sib set is medically needy (I may be emailing Lylac with a ton of questions!), there's a little girl that looks FAE but I have NO information on her, and a bunch of boys - singletons and sib groups - so it should be an interesting month!!!

Right now I'm focused on Q - he's sick again today, really listless, fever - we ended up in the ER yesterday as he seemed confused and really out of it, and I just wasn't sure. They said his lymph nodes are swollen and his salt levels are really low. I think (as it's again a dreary, rainy/cloudy day) we'll be having a movie day today anyways.
That and his 6th birthday is next weekend, so I've got to get the thing planned out!!! I ordered his cake from Ms. Marie - an older lady that makes cakes, and they're wonderful - and have all the birthday party stuff (bought on clearance this summer on eBay), just need to write out the invitations, plan some games, etc.
My friend is going to take J again during Q's party - she did it last year and it was FANTASTIC! It's the first nice birthday Q has had - without J wrecking it. She does bring him the last 15-20 minutes, for blowing out the candles on his cake, but she also stays to help out with him if he starts acting up.

YAY!!! Q just came in and wants to EAT!!!! So I'd better go get my baby some breakfast!
Thanks for all of your support, girls. I appreciate it very, very much. I hope you're all having a nice, relaxing Sunday.

Sandy

[qs mom]

YEA for you!

My dad is similar. He's never 'sorry'. He may tell my mom that I'm right, but he would never tell me.

He also thinks that there is nothing wrong with my Q. 'Nothing a good beating won't take care of'. He thinks that I should spank Q and his behavior would be perfect. I have to say that this is totally hysterical to me because, he NEVER disciplined us ever. No spanking, no punishment, no grounding, nothing. He would get made at mom and she would discipline us.