[ranoutofnames]

Not too long ago I posted in this site and many people emailed both on the site and PM'd me to suggest I have my daughter further evaluated. After this past weekend and tonight's behavior I think we are nearly there to where I agree not only the need to further evaluate but also almost able to handle whatever the diagnosis might be... does that make sense? I'm just feeling so guilty for even entertaining the idea. It took forever to accept the ADHD (which I don't doubt is correct) and to even consider anything else, my heart just HURTS.

Tonight when I picked up my daughters from daycare they received candy for a good last week. I told my daughters they couldn't eat the candy in the vehicle but could have it when we got home (we live about 5 blocks from the day care). This is not unusual because my 6yr old will open food and make a mess in the vehicle EVERY time so I haven't let them have food in the van for months. My 3yr old handed me the candy with an "O-tay Mommy" but my 6yr old had a meltdown. She stomped and screamed. She started kicking and hitting at the air. She refused to put her seatbelt on. She screamed and kicked the seats all the way home, tried scratching me when we got home, tried chasing my 3yr old around just to upset and scare her with a very hateful look on her face, tried to slam the front door on everyone, slammed her bedroom door hard enough pictures in the living room and dining room fell off the wall, then pinched me, hit me, and kicked me when I tried putting her in time out. Once in time out she tried hanging on the nearest door handles, etc. so I ended up sitting and holding her in time out so she didn't do damage to anything, including herself.

The other day my mom tried telling me "oh honey, she's just being a little girl"... totally invalidating my feelings and my daughter's behavior. She refuses to see that my 6yr old daughter has and expresses emotions 10x larger than other children her age. My mom does help and will take my 6yr old for a day or two, but it's always with a "does she have her meds" and then my daughter has meltdowns with my mom they just aren't the extreme that I get, or maybe my mom doesn't report them exactly as they are happening.

My daughter currently takes Concerta during the day and that REALLY helps her focus and stay on task. During the mornings and afternoons (during the week and weekend) she tends to have a pretty good day. Around 5pm she starts to have meltdowns and they tend to be pretty extreme. She will quickly become angry and hostile. She will be like that for 1-2 hours and then will be very remorseful and sad, sometimes to where she cries with true grief at how she has behaved. She's even told me she doesn't know why she acts like that. During the meltdown she can't articulate her feelings and afterwards all she says is she's sorry and doesn't understand why she did it.

The past couple of days I've read several different things and my daughter seems to mirror many behaviors of bi-polar. The medications I read about had some really scary side effects and it makes me afraid to open up a can of worms that I know nothing about.

I'm not sure if we're completely ready...heaven's it took me 6 months from when I finally admitted there is a problem until I sought some help with the noticeable ADHD behaviors.

Would anyone mind sharing their experiences with medications? Good or bad I want it all.

[aMarylandfamily]

Watching anything "onset" such as bi-polar in a child is so difficult for any parent ... especially at this age where the professionals are so reluctant to be blunt and use the terminology which while understandable as that puts a label on the child, it is so unfair to the parent to be able to hear, accept, recharge and conquer (if that makes sense). ADHD and bi-polar "symptoms" and "characteristics" do overlap and often the way to identify the bi-polar is when the ADHD medications (such as Concerta) only address a part or none of the problems. The differences in a mood stabilizer (such as Depakote) from an ADHD medication are dramatic - the hardest part is at this age where weight, size and maturity are continuously changing close monitoring for the correct dosage and adjustments (up and down at different times) is crucial! Dissassociate Disorder symptoms often accompany onset bi-polar which literally present the appearance of a black out when the child goes so far into the rage that afterwards they cannot or do not remember the actual circumstances to the "tantrum" they just exhibited ... so be cautious with discipline for same ... and do have her evaluated now and again in the future as bi-polar can be both long-term cycling or short term cycling (between manic and depressed) ... keeping a daily log will help you establish a pattern - on both the positive and negative and will identify for you which timeframes (some experience only cycles certain times of the year whereas others can experience them, daily, weekly, monthly) you will need to be addressing the situation more than normal.

Hope that helps ... keep posting here - many of us have experience with bi-polar or diagnosis short of or around that and sometimes the ten facts you gather may break down into a combination of two or three which directly affect you but prove to be so valuable from a "hands-on" experience vs. book advised.

[Lorraine123]

Hugs to you. I understand how difficult it is to accept. I have been there (still am, believe it or not). However, you have to help your daughter in the best way you can and that means getting the correct diagnosis. Early Onset Bipolar sounds possible from what you described. They may call it a mood disorder, but its basically the same thing.

Let us know what you find out. Many of us are experienced with children with bipolar.

[NJNative]

From the mom of a kid with ADHD who has been on meds since age 7, I can tell you that rebound is real. Parents dread it. Talk to whoever put her on her meds, describe what's happening and they may consider putting her on a tiny dose of meds in the afternoon to get her over the hump.

ADHD meds are unfortunately not a science -- more of an art. Not every med works for every kid, some make them grouchy and nasty, some cause nasty nasty rebound.

Parents often need to try several meds and various doses before you get it right. And even then, it can changes over time.

PM me if you like.

Good luck -- and BTW, my son is now 17, takes Strattera once a day and is doing wonderfully.

Robin

[ranoutofnames]

I think I'll talk to the person who does her meds. It seems my daughter is having a difficult time coping between her Concerta wearing off and her Clonidine kicking in... it has always taken the Clonidine around 90 minutes to really work well, and during that time the rest of us (and her) pay the price.

I haven't been willing to allow the school to even know she takes meds for ADHD. She makes it through the school day just fine, so what I did try was having her daycare provider give her the Clonidine to see if it helped, but it didn't change anything about her normal routine of throwing an absolute fit between 5pm-6/7pm.

The part about "be able to hear, accept, recharge and conquer (if that makes sense)." makes sense. I TOTALLY understand.

[momraine]

I am suprised the school paperwork didn't have a form for you to fill out to put any medications the child takes. Our schools require it and they get really upset if they find out you did not put something on there. They even want to know if a kid is on allergy or antibiotics for a short time. I think they are more picky though because they had a child have a reaction to medication and they could not get a hold of mom right away and the hospital needed to know what she was on and the school's records did not include the medication that she was reacting to so it took too long to treat it. Also they would need to know so they don't give the kid something that would react to the medication.

[greenrobin]

My son has ADHD, depression, ODD and bipolar. He's on a cocktail of strattera, concerta, depakote and lexapro. Although he manifested at 8, he wasn't diagnosed until he was 14--and believe me, it wasn't pretty! The p-doc he started with only wanted to use a midgie dose of depakote which did very little. When the good p-doc got him, we cycled through a bunch of drugs and dosages until we found what worked for him. Life changed dramatically for the better.

aMaryland got it right on the money--these kids don't remember what they did. My son once slammed my arm in a door repeatedly leaving lots of bruising and a blood blister that ran the length of my upper arm. The next day he saw it and wanted to know who hurt me. I told him it was him. He got tears in his eyes and said, "Momma, I love you! I'd NEVER hurt you!" That was when I knew in my heart that he really didn't remember. I'd spent so much time angry with him for his behavior that he didn't remember and he thought I just didn't like him! How awful for him!

He's 19 now. He takes his meds. He played on a state championship football team in high school. He graduated. He went to a jr. college and graduated from his diesel mechanic program. He works in the oil field and makes more than enough money for a 19 year old! He has a lovely girlfriend (with 2 little kids whom my boy adores) and he's happy. I like him as well as love him.

My dh calls it better living through chemistry! Don't be afraid. It can get much better.

[qs mom]

You have my son at 5. That is when I decided that all of our therapies need a little drug help.

He is now 7. He takes Adderall XR in the am. But he rebounds when it wears off. He takes Risperdal when he gets home from school and again at bedtime.

This combo is a GODSEND!

It sounds like rebound to me too. Maybe Clondine isn't the right 'after school' med. Maybe another combo is needed.

My son would have 'episodes' were he wasn't there - didn't know what was happening, what happened, etc. Much, much better now.

[linda512]

My nephew has ADHD and OCD, and his behavior could mimic your daughter's when he was not on meds. It is possible that there is something else going on, and they did consider that my nephew might be bipolar, but it could also be just ADHD. I agree with talking to your doctor about meds. My nephew is now 10 and still has rages at times, but much less.
At age 4 or 5, I asked my nephew what it was like to have ADHD. He said it's almost like you're being bad all the time. Before meds, he talked about death all the time, drew dark pictures. Now he does not. He is so much happier and is able to understand that the meds help him control his behavior.
Good luck to you. It's hard to admit your child has a problem but it's the first step towards helping her and making her achieve the most possible.

[qs mom]

This is key from the previous poster - "it's the first step towards helping her and making her achieve the most possible."

My mom had an attitude about medicating my son. She thought I was doing it for me. So that my life would be easier. Not for my son to be able calm down enough to make friends, to play, to learn.

[rainmon]

if was me, i'd try to find out just how many sweets the daycare passes out daily, the best daycares don't reward with candy......but maybe stickers, or special outings,
field trips, etc....anything !!! but not candy !! especially for a child with ADHD. a lot of children with those problems are on special diets without "any" sugars and artificial flavorings or dyes in foods, cereals, koolaid etc......even too much fruit juice has a lot of sugar in it. natural sugars yes...but still sugar.
I can't believe your daycare rewards children with candy! wow!
that I'd look into real well. Rain

[joskids]

Your son sounds SO MUCH like my son. He's currently on Adderall XR, 20 mgs. just in the a.m. If the "rebounds" start up again, I will give him 10 mg when he gets off the bus at 2:30. I HATE medicating my child(ren). Now I have 3 on meds. My 8 year old just started Straterra because she hallucinated on a low dose of Concerta. I feel like the monster mother for medicating my children yet I fully understand that our home needs to run with a sense of normalcy. Folks who do not medicate and have what they belive "normal" children, cannot understand and I won't try to make them understand. I just really felt almost a whoosh of relief reading your post, knowing it's not just me that sees these things in my beautiful 7 year old boy that the teachers see NONE OF. A few weeks ago he had a huge blowout and the rage lasted for more than an hour (not breaking things, just pounding his feet, pounding the walls, stomping up the stairs, nasty words to me and the DARKNESS in his eyes). I thought at that point "OK, I'm in denial, he IS biopolar". I think the hardest part is not knowing what you are really dealing with. I didn't know the term "rebound" before I read the previous posts but it certainly rings a bell. We're currently seeing a therapist who does work with adopted children and hoping to put a finger on what the true issues are but maybe we won't know for a long time. My child sleeps well, others see him as a VERY well behaved child, which he is, until about 4:00 on a day when he's maintained at school and loses it before daddy gets home from work. This isn't easy. But I wouldn't trade any of my beautiful children for some of the "normal" kids I see that are acting out at the shopping mall or whose parents can't seem to get the word "no" out of their mouths.

Can I get some feedback on my daughter, who is 8? Classic ADD, bright, helpful, but now in 3rd grade, unfocused, can't remember what she read, cannot hold on to math facts. Again, she hallucinated when we tried a low dose of Concerta. For the past 3 days she's been on Straterra, I know it takes a few weeks to totally take affect but we do notice differences already. Thoughts???????? I'm hoping it will help her focus in school and socially, not to keep butting into the conversations of others so that she holds on to the friends she has. I'm just holding my breath as I have read that Straterra can also cause hallucinations. I'm hoping for our girl, it will help. It hurts when your child struggles.

THANKS A BUNCH!

[AudreyE]

Originally Posted by ranoutofnames

It took forever to accept the ADHD (which I don't doubt is correct) and to even consider anything else, my heart just HURTS.

Would anyone mind sharing their experiences with medications? Good or bad I want it all.

Medication saved my daughter's life. Without it, she was a unhappy, dangerous, moody little girl with no future. With it she is a beautiful, pleasant, happy little girl with the whole world ahead of her. No one will ever be able to tell me that medication was a bad idea for her. No one.

She is 10 years old and on Lithium and Abilify. After a few years of trial and error, this combination has kept her mood and behavior stable for almost three years.

She also has severe learning disabilities, which were so masked by her bipolar disorder that we didn't even realize she had them until she was stabilized..... another reason the medication was a God-send.

FYI, if your daughter is eventually DX'd bipolar, a reputable p-doc will treat the bipolar first, then slowly add on medications for comorbid ADHD. Otherwise the ADHD stims can cause mania and rapid cycling......

Audrey

[jkke]

Ranoutofnames:

My son (7) was adopted from foster care less than a year ago and he came to us with the suspicion of ADHD and was medicated for it. Now after almost 10 months I am beginning to believe he isn't or if he is it is so mild he may not need meds.

I found a TON of help on ADHDnews.com forums. There are hundreds of parents on there with kids with and without ADHD and other dx.

If I read your post correctly your daughter is 6 - that may be a little too young to truly evaluate ADHD but it is done. Not saying your daughter doesn't have a dx but how was she adopted? Was she older? Many things mimic ADHD symptoms in older adopted children - some call it hypervillgence (sp?)

I think there is a book called the Connected Child that explains what these children do and how they react to what could be a normal routine thing to us but to them it puts them on the defense- hyper, non-attentive, tantrums. It is a defense mechanism. Anyway - please look into all the information about ADHD and the things that mimic it.

See if she has a food allergy as well. My kids aren't good with yellow dyes as most aren't with red dyes.

Look into alternative medications. We have our son and daughter (no dx) on Omega 3, Magnesium, B-12, amino Acid and multi vitamins. I found all the info on the other site. Omega 3 is called nature's ridilin. Magnesium helps calm your child. B-12 & amino acid help with focus. Now I just buy the children's version of all these and I have seen a huge improvement in them. Others swear by specific formulated ones that can be very expensive.

Read the thread about magnesium deficiency - there is a funny home test to do and many children are deficient with this mineral. Anyway- look into all possibilities and don't have a pediatrician dx your child, go to neuropathologist or a child's psychiatrist who specializes in ADHD.

I am not saying you won't put your child on medication but there are ones that can help if your child does have ADHD. We use tenex (1/2 mg in am) but will try to remove him off of it this summer and see if it is ok at that point. These children need to time to adjust and sometimes it takes a year or so for them to be completely secure.

Last - behavior modification has worked wonders for us - for both children. Discipline and routine are crucial for children especially older adopted ones.

BTW: Many children explode and misbehave but it is behind closed doors - most parents might not be willing to share that information. Yes, your daughter sounds like she wants attention and demands it. Don't give into it - stay calm and when she has a tantrum - DON'T SAY WORD - direct her to her room and tell her she is in time out for 6 minutes. She will probably scream more, try coming out of her room, etc...Repeat the first part - no speaking, put her in her room and tell her 6 minutes. You may repeat this 10 times but she will eventually get it and calm down. And the next time she has to go to timeout it won't be as bad. Also read Transforming the Difficult Child. HELPED US TREMENDOUSLY!!!!!!!! Don't feed into the negative behavior - stay calm and she will eventually learn whether she is ADHD or not.