[lucyjoy]

Looking for tips on teaching kids about money. My kids tend to make money and save it when they're young and then go nuts spending it as teens and young adults with no understanding of it. I obviously need a better teaching method.

I hate allowance but am considering giving one to my 10 and 15 year old. They don't do their chores well, though and I really don't want to pay them to do nothing.

And what should I have them do with this money to learn to manage it?

Ideas, anyone?

[SuzBerg]

Lucy -I have no suggestions, BUT I'm really interested in seeing everyone elses ideas as this is something I really need to work on with my kids as well. I'm glad you started this thread!

[momraine]

We got my 13 year old a bank account and a cash card. We deposite his allowence (one dollar a week per year of age) and his lunch money for school into the bank. When he works, we put that money in the account as well. DH sits down with him once a month to go over things and balance it. We also take money directly out if he owes us money for something. (Like if he breaks something, or I have replace something he misusued or lost, or if I have to do his chores for him) Because he can't drive, we have to take him to the bank so we know how much money he is getting out. Of course if his attitude has been bad, I sometimes have trouble finding time to drive him to the ATM. LOL, we live in the country ten miles from town, so walking is not an option. When we had coustody of my sister, I gave her cash to buy all her school supplies and clothes. I told her that what she could not buy with that she would have to use her own money. I took her first to a store that didn't have clothes, to buy the school supplies, so that she would have to buy those things first, because I knew she would spend it all on clothes. She was shocked at the prices and it was a great lesson for her.

[marythemom]

We've been having a lot of trouble getting kids to complete chores, and since I quit my job we had to let the cleaning lady go so there are even more chores needing to be done! We finally came up with something that seems to be working. My 13 year old goes rollerblading every Friday and needs $8 to go. He also wants money for drinks and extra lunch money. He was probably the worst about not doing his chores, giving attitude, or not doing them well, and this has really helped.

Dh and I came up with a list of about 30 chores that needed doing. In a family meeting we sat down and had the KIDS choose which chores they wanted. New dd hates chores and is not highly money motivated. She chose the least amount of chores and I'm fine with that. Youngest ds who'll be 8 next week chose the next highest amount of chores.

Some chores everyone gets, but we chose which day (cleaning up puppy messes wasn't getting done because it was never anyone's turn - now they clean up messes if it's their day - and they're much more likely to get up and put the puppy outside on "their" day!). They have a laundry day where they wash and put away their laundry (that way the machine doesn't have a line - and they don't have that excuse). Everyone's room must be clean and ready for inspection at 6pm on Fridays (coincidentally, right before oldest ds wants to be taken to rollerblading). If their room isn't clean then they don't get to go anywhere on the weekend.

I love this system because when they complain about doing a chore I get to say "Well you chose to do this chore, but you certainly don't have to do it! Someone else would be happy to make the extra money." - even if it's Thursday and they've been doing the chore all week, the other person gets the "full" amount. We've decided a chore that has to be done every day - like dishes and feeding the dogs gets $2 a week. Things a child does 3 times a week or less -like cleaning the bathroom or doing laundry - they get $1 a week. We haven't let the children in on how the money part works - we just told them what they'd get based on their total chosen chores. Some things like doing their laundry and cleaning their rooms were not chosen chores those are part of living in a family, but if they complain about them they'll get a similar answer. "You can choose not to do that chore and have no clothes (and no sympathy), or you can pay someone else to do it (and they won't be happy with $1-2 dollars). For most chores if they're not done they're grounded until the chore is done.

So far it's working for us.
Mary (stay at home mom to T -8 next week!, K 10.5, C 11.75 and D 13.5)

[kay]

I don't know - I haven't been very successful with C. I give him an allowance, and have resorted to various monetary "bribes" for behavior. He has had such a hard time being responsible for being on time to class that I've devised a reward/punishment system for that - I pay him $1 per class, per day, that he's on time. However, if he's late even once in a day, he's docked the entire amount. So he has the potential to either get extra money every week, or get no allowance whatsoever. So far that's not been a big success, so we may need some fine tuning! (I know, paying him to do something he's supposed to do anyway sticks in my craw, too, but nothing else seems to be working!)

He also has an account at my credit union, and I've told him that every time he does volunteer hours, I'll deposit $5 in that account. An enforced savings plan, since he doesn't have easy access to that money.

He's starting to be very interested in getting a job, with the idea that he can buy all this expensive skating clothing. He's full of big ideas about how he'll spend the money, but I haven't seen much in the way of actually applying for a job!

[Dhewco]

Gee, I remember doing chores...but I don't remember getting paid for it. I didn't have an allowance either. Do kids in the system expect this? (being paid for chores and having an allowance)



David

[Indy]

Having several sons, I have had to devise several plans. I do not give out allowance, nor do I pay the boys for chores around the house. I believe each of the boys needs to learn that they must contribute to the well being of the family.

If there is a task that I would pay someone else to do, I will pay the boys to do it. However, I expect a professional job. An example would be carpet cleaning. We rent a machine and the boys get the difference between the rental and what I would pay for the carpets to be cleaned.

All of the boys may work at the properties that I own or manage. They can also be fired. They each work according to their abilities. They also know that the more they learn, the more they can do, the more money they make. One of my sons is working with the neighbor to learn how to finish a basement. He is working for free. He knows that the skills he learns, he can take to our job site and make money.

Several of the boys go through the neighborhood. They help shovel walks, mow yards, or help with whatever. I am trying to teach them that one doesn't always have to be paid to help someone. The boys have a reputation of helping others. Neighbors are also likely to call them when there is something they need done and there is money involved.

As far as saving money, I require a minimum of 30% for savings. 10% is for charity. They get to spend 60% of what they make. Savings is non-refundable...until college. This does not apply to the ones not on the college path.

I am teaching the boys about investing and compounding interest. They are partners in several of my business ventures. We talk about business deals, depending on their level of understanding. I am a follower of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad". Working for someone else is fine...but one doesn't have to do that to survive.

Of course, I do this in my spare time!

[kay]

I don't tie C's allowance to chores - I try to make chores things he is to do anyway, as part of the family. He always needs money, and I'm doing the allowance as a way to (Hopefully!) teach him how to budget what he gets. If he spends his entire allowance hanging with his friends on Friday night, guess what? he's sol for the rest of the week. It's a hard lesson for him; every once in awhile he gets it, but I hear a lot of whining about his "needs". On bigger jobs where I could pay somebody else, I do something similar to Indy - I offer C the job, and it must be done as if he were an outside employee before he gets the pay. (And I'll not wait around forever for him to "get around to it" - if he can't show some initiative about fitting it into his busy schedule, I figure he's not all that interested in either the job or the money!)

[momraine]

Our allowence isn't actually tied to chores, though I do sometimes charge them if I have to do thier chores. They are more likey to just not get to do anything if the chores are not done. (Ex: Can so and so come over to play or can I play video games? "Oh sorry, you didn't clean your room and the trash has really piled up, so I don't think so"). They don't get a lot of allowence, but they are expected to use it for things they want to do. When they sell candy or stuff at school, they use thier own money. Want to go to a movie? Use your own money. Want to play a video game at a restaraunt? Use your own money. Want to buy a soft drink at the gas station while mom is getting gas? Use your own money. My younger ones don't get allowence, but my older two get it and lunch money (enough to buy the basic school lunch for each day of school that week) So if they buy the junk food lunch which costs more, they end up with no money. Now, my oldest will occasionally skip lunch (Like before homecoming when he had to buy his girlfriend a mum - mums are a southern thing, big in texas) I figure he is old enough that if he wants to be hungry that's fine. He did manage to save up and buy himself a bass so he can join the jazz band at school. (I do pay the rental on the tuba that the school assigned him, but bass was an extra thing) he also had to first practice guitar daily for six months to prove to me that he would play the bass. We also do lessons on interest and we talked about credit cards and interest. I made him do the math and he realized what a rip off they are and how sneaky they are. When my younger ones get older they too will get allowence as a way to learn how to manage money, until they are old enough for jobs. When they are old enough to get a job, we cut the allowence off.

[tybeemarie]

I was required as a foster parent to give a weekly allowance, which I did. They get $5 a week, which is not tied to chores, because that's just something they have to do, period. I love their allowance, because I enjoy taking it away. The best is for babysitting. If they are bad for the babysitter, the babysitter gets combat pay, and they reimburse me. The other day, my son had to pay for a uniform sweatshirt, as he had lost the one I'd gotten him. And, occasionally, they actually keep their allowance and even save it! They can use it for the farmer's market day at their school, for books, for buying popcorn from the concession stand at school sporting events, etc. And for gifts for the family, of course.

I did learn of a program online to help kids learn responsibility called payjr.com. It also tracks chores, and the kid doesn't get paid until the chore is done, that kind of thing. You might check that out.

[Kerbchek]

I do pay for chores - The entire idea came over a year ago when I had E and a different short term foster kid who was 16. E used to help with things here and there and I'd just give him some cash from time to time when he'd ask. Then I had C for three months last year- who would sit on the sofa and ask me to get him a glass of milk out of the fridge while I was running around cleaning, dusting, vacuuming. He'd just pull off his socks and throw them on the floor in front of the sofa and would think he could just leave them there!!!!! Arg!!!! Then he'd ask for some cash and it didn't seem fair to him that I gave cash to E, but not him... so I set up the chore chart and nobody got a free hand-out cash for anything - it was all tied to how non-lazy you were.

This seemed to help E as well. He had (still kind of does) the idea that things happen to you - that you cannot control what you have or how your life goes. He wasn't raised by anybody who worked outside the house for a living (mother never had job, grandmother was retired - yes worked at one time, but E only saw her get a check in the mail - and the other foster home he was in had a stay-at-home foster parents). He sort of had this notion that money just came in the mail if you were lucky and if no money just came in the mail, you just didn't have money. I don't think he had a good idea of how working harder, meant having more money. All of a sudden, after I started this, E started doing more chores without being asked (he sure initialed the chore chart though). I didn't even realize how many chores I was just doing myself without thinking about it after E requested we add more chores to the chart (I was used to doing them myself as I had lived alone for so long). My life became easier as I was receiving more help. It really didn't cost me more money as I stopped purchasing pop, chips, candy, rented movies & games, toys, weird things from Hot Topic, and the list goes on...

I also have a list posted in the kitchen of what kind of things I'll buy and what they need to use chore money for. I'll put $60 for new shoes twice a year. If the shoes cost $75, then they need to contribute $15 from chore money. And I'll buy pop and chips for them if we're going on a car ride that is one hour or longer... there's others too. I also rent movies and games if I'm going out to eat with friends and am leaving them home alone...

We have a list of chores, the definition, and the $ amount for if they're done correctly down the left side. Across the top are the dates for the month. Then in the grid, you match the chore with that days date and intitial the box. After I've checked the chore, I highlight their initial and pay the kid. The highlighted initial means I've already paid them. The biggest drawback I've found was right after E's birthday and Christmas, he had recieved some cash as gifts, then his chores go out the window because he is not in need of any money... He still would do chores if asked, but he just doesn't do them as voluntarily.

As for J, he loves the system. It's similar to what he had at the RTC and he loves sticker charts and stuff... but I pay better for each chore than his RTC did...

Yes, I believe doing chores is just part of being a family... but growing up, I got paid for each chore I did. I was raised with a serious emphasis on work ethic. My dad is 67 and still goes to work every day... (that won't be me hopefully though...) I want to raise these boys with the idea that the harder you work, the better life you can have...

[kretzklan]

We used a plan a little like one mentioned above, but took the bank out.
We gave our son an empty checkbook register. Each week on allowance day, we gave him his allowance and he had to register it correctly in his book. We were the bank - the money then went back to us. He then had to pay taxes and rent. It was a percent of the allowance (we paid a little higher to make up for this). He had to deduct that from his checkbook correctly. If we were shopping and he wanted something - We (the bank) would pay, but the amount came out of his checkbook. If he couldn't cover the expense, he didn't get it.

Another thing we are doing now is giving the amount we feel is fair for a given object - for example. I think he can get a decent pair of tennis shoes for $30. That is what we are willing to give him. If he wants $100 shoes, he has to save up and pay the difference.

We don't pay based on chores. We give them allowance because they are members of our family. DH and I have money - they should as well. However this means that we don't buy them much of anything from our funds. Exceptions would be - food, NEEDED clothes and school supplies. I haven't bought a toy or video game or CD ever - except for Christmas and Birthday...even then we are very "streamlined" on gifts. They do plenty of chores - but we don't call them that...it's called rule #1 at our house: If Mom or Dad ask you to do something...DO IT! It is the only rule at our house - obviously it pretty much covers everything! But they can never argue that we have too many rules!

[Original Mike]

I do pay for chores and the number of chores you do determines how much money you get. Basic allowance is determined by age: 12 to 14, you get $10/week; 15 to 17, you get $20/week. At 17, allowance stops and you are required to get a part-time job (of course , this is handled case-by-case). For allowance, every week the boys get a list of chores to do. For each one not done, the allowance is lowered accordingly.

I also allow the boys to "bank" their allowances. in this case, rather than giving them cash, I create a ledger sheet and record the money as "income". For a lot of them, saving money is hard when they actually have the cash. By running a tab, they find that their money can build up quickly and then they can make some major purchases. (When he was with us, J saved up and bought a Gamecube.) I show them how to read the ledger so they know exactly how much they have.

There are also "extra chores" that can be picked up for extra money if your regular chores are done. For example, cutting the grass is another $10. Blowing the driveway in the winter is an extra $5. My mom will also "rent" the boys to help with things like moving furniture and she is usually pretty generous with the cash.

As for what I pay for, its simple. i pay for all personal care items. Each boy gets a clothing allowance to spend as they wish on CLOTHES. I've also taught several boys to shop on Ebay to make their dollars stretch. (Last August, C got about $300 worth of school clothes for under $100 and was stoked!) I don't pay for dates or movies, though I do have a rule for proms: I will pay for either your tuxedo rental or your dinner. We go out to dinner every Friday night and the boys have the option of going or not. if they go, I pick up the tab. if they don't, I will NOT pick up McDonalds or something on the way home as I am not a delivery service.

I think that this is one of the most important lessons for older kids to learn. i've met so many foster kids on the cusp of aging out who have NO CLUE how to deal with money.

[Kerbchek]

Never thought about buying school clothes on e-bay... cool idea.

I have the same thing about Friday night's out... we go out to dinner every Friday night. If you choose to come with I pay... if not I will not pick up Subway or McD's either...(unless it was a school related event) There's specific guidlines of what I'll pay for and what I won't. I'll pay to go to the movies if it's my idea and we all go together - but I won't pay for going to the movies with friends.

Every now and then I fudge the rules... but that's life and it's not to be expected. It's the Superbowl... so I bought some pop... Today J and I went to a flea market and I saw a big box of lego's for $8 - probably 3000 pieces - it was a good deal I could not pass up and I know they'll keep him busy for hours. Now, he had to run home and do a few chores, but we fudged the rule where I won't make purchases for them before the chore is done - credit can be dangerous and they'd just as well not get in the habit of using credit... this is real life I guess. But overall, I think they're gaining the idea of the value of a dollar.

[Howdy]

I used to give $5 allowance every week, but my daughter (now 10 yrs) got so lazy for awhile and it was too much hassle to remember how much to deduct from her allowance (the laziness is inherited!), so now I only give her allowance for getting her chores done. Neither of us has managed to get a chore list ready, so it has been done on a 'feel' method, if I see floor showing everywhere and counter and table space peeking through, then I 'feel' like giving her the allowance!

I give her a clothing budget but this year I would like to not be in charge of it so much (because then neither of us remember how much was left). I thought about getting her a bank card but I'm not sure how much money and how often to give more. I know that she needs to run out in order to learn anything about handling money.

It is hard to figure out what she needs, because of the growth spurts. For a while last year her feet were growing a size every month I think, so I wound up buying shoes for her beyond her budget. Her feet finally stabilized but then her chest developed and we had to go out three times for increasing bra sizes. I suppose next she'll shoot up several more inches (she's been eating like a horse this month, 'starving' an hour after a meal, so she's either getting ready to shoot up or out!).

I pay every 8th week for the weekly kid party she goes to, and all the other weeks she has to find a way to earn the money. She mostly does chores for my mom because my mom overpays AND tips!