[meowylyn]

My almost 10-year old son A. has been with us for about a year. Our adoption was finalized last September. We love him dearly but the honeymoon is definitely over where his behaviors are concerned...Over the course of the last year, we've dealt with the expected array of behaviors - lying, stealing, defiance, disrespect, destruction of property, etc.

We've worked closely with the school to get A. the help he needs to try and get caught up academically (he was 'pushed' through the system and does not know some basic stuff) and emotionally. However A. just doesn't seem to care about anything but himself and getting out of doing work (homework, chores, etc). Getting him to do homework is the "battle royale"...no matter how you break it down or try to help him. Sure, some of this is "normal kid stuff" but at an extreme level.

A. was discharged from therapy several weeks ago with the advice to us being...."Keep doing what you're doing. You're doing all the right things....You need to accept that this is just how it is going to be with him....He is functioning at the expected level." Also upon therapy release, he was taken off all meds (a stimulant for ADHD and an anti-psychotic for possible bi-polar/ODD).

In the month that A. has been off the meds, we've seen an escalation in his defiant behaviors (rule breaking, lying, back talking). But do meds really help that? Should we consider putting him back on and starting a new course of therapy?

As Dr. Phil says, we haven't found our son's "monetary system". No amount of time-outs, loss of priviliges, rewards, detentions, or other consequences seem to matter. We've also taken the approach of "catching him being good" and trying to emphasize the positive. That seems to have little or no impact either. Planning fun things to do seems to backfire...at first we thought it was sabotage but then we realized it didn't matter whether we told A. about plans or not.

We've been consistent in enforcing our rules, setting limits, boundaries, etc. He continues to push back harder and harder. I consider myself a patient person. But the repeated behavior pattern really is really wearing me down.

We fear is that A.'s behaviors at home and school will get progressively worse. He's already earned a 'reputation' in the 3rd grade....He is the first one questioned when anything goes missing. We worry that as time passes he will become so frustrated that he will just give up. We're not giving up...not just yet.

Has anyone been through something similar? What worked for you?

Thanks for letting me vent!

[lucyjoy]

Why was he taken of the anti-psychotic med? First thing I would suggest is putting him back on it. Not sure about the ADHD med. I'd get a new therapist familiar with attachment. They can also treat ODD.
In my experience, most RAD/AD kids exhibit ODD behavior. True ODD kids cannot take any direction without it excellerating their fight sensors. If I tell my true ODD kid to eat cookies for breakfast, he wouldn't.

The ruining fun stuff sounds like an attachment behavior to me. I like Nancy Thomas methods for dealing with the kids. I would recommend using her DVD's if you are unfamiliar with her style. He book can get misused. Her parenting style includes lots of laughter and fun but the high intense structure these kids need to feel safe in their environments.

I would also recommend looking at www.radzebra.org and www.attachment.org for more help

[bandareed]

Your situation sounds very similar to mine years ago. My son came to me at age 10. He had spent 5 years in group homes (you guys call them RTC I think). He did not have attatchment issues, but he did have a whole lot of behavior issues. Lying, property distruction and back-talking were the norm with him. And I've never met a child with such a foul mouth, and so hyper! To top it off, he would hit, kick, and spit... adults and kids. He had to be in a special school for behavior problem kids, and they could barely handle him there.

I did a lot of the same things you are doing, with minimal success. For my son, sports was the key. I kept him busy with them. He was good and it helped him focus in other areas, some how. Consistency, like you mentioned, was the the other key. I repeated the same things over and over. It seemed like it would never sink in. And he never seemed to care about doing what was right. And he fought me on any and all work. I grew a backbone of steel, and learned to NEVER back down. Those were seriously some of the most draining years of my life.

The third key though, was stubborness and persistance. I never gave up. Slowly, he did get better. Small victories at first. The physical aggression towards people was the first to go. Then the property destruction, and so on. Eventually, the things that I had been repeatedly telling him for years finally started to sink in and stick!

In my case, it took years. But it was worth it. My son is a great kid now (still runs his mouth a bit...thinks he's funny). He's normal. You would never guess his past if you didn't know. He's 21, been married 2 years (married early I think, as part of his need for family) and has a beautiful 8 month old boy. He's a dedicated husband, and great dad. He has a great job. And he has never been arrested!!!! ...something I worried about when he was younger.

I just wanted to share, that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes it is hard to see and takes a really, really long time to get there.

Remember to see the humor in things, take time for yourself...I mean really do it, or you will burn out, and step back from the situation every once in awhile, and look for those small victories that you may not have notice everyday.

I'd check on those meds too. Oh, when my son began to really improve, starting at a new school was great for him...fresh new start where he didn't have a "reputation". Sounds like you are on the right track. Hang in there.

[aMarylandfamily]

Why would they take him off the bi-polar med? Bi-Polar is cycular and even in the best of timeframes they need the meds to keep the system balanced! ADHD meds (stimulants) escalate the bi-polar symptoms ... not sure why he would be on both at the same time ... but, definitely get him back under doctor's care and on the bi-polar meds if he is actually bi-polar ... when he hits a "cycle" (and sometimes they only cycle a couple times a year) you will really know it without the effects medication holds on controlling the rages and inappropriate behaviors!

[Faith65]

I have to agree with others about the ADHD meds and bi polar meds at the same time. But, I know when B came to us the DR she was seeing was doing the same type of crazy med thing. We advocated for her rescearch and documented her behaviors and all. Finally getting DCF and her SW to see the same concerns. We tried talking to the prscribing DR for months about this but no change. Finally DCF helped us locate a new DR and it's as if we have a new child now! She just turned 14 on Sunday. I am not saying that is and her behaviors are perfect because their not. But, the right meds and dx makes a huge difference in our daughter's life.

Find another DR. Start documenting his behaviors so you have written information for the new doctor and what meds he has been on in the past.

Good luck.

[meowylyn]

Thank you all for the advice. The doctor never actually diagnosed A. bi-polar. The anti-psychotic (risperdone) was just in case he is (?) and to help control his aggression....He was put on it while living at one of the shelters during his 4 years in Care.

I really do suspect ODD because EVERYTHING is an argument with him....even simple things such as "the sky is blue".

It's so hard to tell at this point. Don't many symptoms overlap at this age? We're also hoping the medication holiday (for as long as he/we can do it) may provide a growth spurt...five years of meds has left him very small for his age, which also causes him to be a target for teasing,etc.

Thanks again for your kind words and advice.

[lucyjoy]

I don't think Risperdone inhibits growth. It didn't in my son who was very small for his age until recently. It does greatly help with aggression.

With the history you describe, I would suggest an attachment therapist. It can't hurt and they understand the overlapping of symptoms.

For my really ODD kids, I use a lot of choices. "You can either clean the kitchen or the bathroom today" That still gives them an instruction but doesn't ignite the fight sensors. I've even said stuff like "you can either go to your room or sit on the floor where you're at" Either way, the choice works for me.

[Lilacsandroses]

HEY MEOWYLYN!! I'm going thru that now with my almost 18yr old stepson, have been for the past 5 yrs. ADHD, ODD, BI-POLAR, the works!! This was all diagnosed for him back around 10yrs old also, and add to that his parents had an ugly divorce only a few years prior to that.

It escalated to the point that his dad, (my husband), ended up on family leave just to be available for the daily phone calls for help from school. He was moved from school to school. And he didn't get enough credits to graduate last Saturday night and will have to do them in the next few weeks to get his diploma. (I don't see it happening, he isn't mature enough to even be embarrassed about it!) He has screamed in his mom's face so many times that she is frightened to the point that he won't ever be allowed to live there (just across town), although he has been kind of staying there for the last 2 weeks (because his car that they bought for him has been "impounded" by them because of school).

He and his dad have had such blow ups that one time while they were arguing in the closed garage, I stood outside ready with the hose as if they were fighting dogs!!!

In the few years I have known the kid, I have gotten a complete education on the whole package!! For a long time I thought he was just a brat, then it became obvious that it was much more. I believe that my stepson wouldn't hurt anyone else intentionally, he's a complete wuss, take a step TOWARDS him during an argument and he cowars, however I'm sure that when he goes in to a complete fit of rage, it is possible that he could throw something or hit something that could, in turn, end up hurting someone else, it just wouldn't have been aimed at them.

For him, for the past 2 years, his "monetary system" has been his freedom, using his dad's car, getting gas money for his car...We moved out in the country 2 1/2 years ago and getting his mom to come get him and take him anywhere was like "pulling teeth", so it was almost always up to us to transport him anywhere, including to her house!

As far as advice...talk to his school counselor...FOR YOU, it sounds like he probably already has one considering what you've been through so far, that person will become your best friend. Make sure you and your hubby are always on the same page on everything!! Stay on top of every little thing he is expected to do (daily chores, personal hygiene, whatever), get daily updates on school work. Keep him on a daily schedule for every little thing. Don't back down! Don't respond when it isn't necessary. Don't argue or try to explain your "reason" for a decision, you are the parent, you don't HAVE to explain, end of story. Dealing with my stepson has been the definition of "TOUGH LOVE", and yet he still couldn't manage to get all his credits to graduate.

YES, IT IS THE MOST EXHAUSTING THING!!!!!!!!!!

GOOD LUCK!!!

[qs mom]

I think a 'fresh' therapist is needed. A full eval. Symptoms often overlap. You need to see what symptoms you want/can treat.

My son has just recently started Adderall for ADHD. He also has ODD. She also noted he had several indicators for Asperger's. But not enough for a diagnosis. She said we should just keep it in mind.

[Lilacsandroses]

THAT was the other one...Asperger's...I couldn't think of the name, we were also told that my stepson has several signs of it, but not enough to say for sure....after a while they all seem like one big thing...

[qs mom]

They do seem like one big thing after a bit. As far as Asperger's, his doc said that we will watch his developmental milestones for any further indicators. Time will tell.