[Indy]

Just when I thought things would settle over the future of my granddaughter, J2 calls to tell me that he and A are not agreeing. A is wanting to move forward on a plan for adoption for g'baby. J2 has decided he wants to keep g'baby. He called this morning and told me that he wants to "fight" for the baby.

I am not sure what I feel on this one. Many of you know may know some of the background of J2. He has not been one of my easiest sons. Some recall that J2 is very lazy. He still does not have a job, nor has he tried real hard to get one. I paid his rent for 6 months and have provided him with some groceries. He called yesterday to tell me that his cable bill is $60. I just changed the subject, as I have told him that I am not paying it before. Don't even ask about his apartment, it is a wreck. He was fired from one job for stealing money and two other jobs for being lazy. He skipped school twice this week.

J2 cannot take care of himself, let alone a baby. I was supportive of J2 and A keeping the baby, as I have confidence between the two of them the baby would be fine. I do not have that same level of confidence in J2, by himself, with a baby.

I do not want to get into a legal battle over the baby. If I were to "win", J2 would want the baby and I wouldn't allow that. This woud cause major problems between J2 and myself. I know, it is bad to have more confidence in A than my own son. However, it should be noted that I have known A almost as long as I have had J2. She has a good head on her shoulders.

I am praying for wisdom.

[leaabc123]

Indy,
that is tough. The best thing you can do is speak the truth to J2, just as you have done here. Either he would get his act together immediately (clean up his place, go to school, maintain his job, etc) or not.

As I said before, he can ask for an open adoption to maintain some type of contact. But the baby's best interests have to be kept in mind.

Good luck again!

[leenab]

Have you considered letting J2 move back in with the baby? From what you say it sounds like he's going to need a lot of support to keep the baby without A. Maybe the 2 of you could co-parent your granddaughter.

It really sounds like J2 needs a big dose of honesty from you about his situation. Obviously a baby needs a somewhat clean house to live in. Does he realize how much work a baby is? I think there are training dolls out there that are used to show teens how much work a baby can be.

A could always change her mind, and may just do that. Pregnancy is a crazy emotional time.

Hang in there,
Leena

[Original Mike]

I think I would sit J2 down and be painfully blunt with him. Say what you just posted: that he can't take care of himself, let alone a baby.

I would let him know that he has two months (give or take) until the baby arrives and that he needs to get off his butt, get a job, and show that he is serious about this. This is not like getting a goldfish that you can just flush when you get tired of it. (NO, I would NEVER do that. I actually name and talk to my fish!)

Mike

[alinev]

I am confused, if at 18, J2 does not understand such basic concepts as employment and paying his own rent and you as his father place NO faith in his ability to suddenly change and the child's mother feels that the child would be better off in an adoptive home, where is the issue?? The ONLY concern is the child's welfare. You are presently parenting 6-8 children, how could you add another to this list?? Who will pay the bills, make sure the child gets medical care etc., etc., etc. Your son and his girlfriend forgot birth control, this fact in itself does not make them suitable parents. If placed in an adoptive home grandchild may have some issues with his/her adoptive status or they may not having been given every opportunity to feel safe and loved. You sound like you genuinely love your son but are very clear about his shortcomings. Don't let that love override what is absolutely common sense and a love for your future grandchild.

[heartened]

Originally Posted by alinev

You are presently parenting 6-8 children, how could you add another to this list?? Who will pay the bills, make sure the child gets medical care etc., etc., etc. Your son and his girlfriend forgot birth control, this fact in itself does not make them suitable parents.

You're kidding, right?


Indy, I have to pretty much echo what everyone else said - it's time to be extremely honest with J2. You also might want to consider giving him a two week "intensive" on parenting:

Call him at all random hours of the night. When you call, he has to get up, go into the kitchen, boil 3 cups of water, pour the water into a mug, and all the while chat on the phone with you so you know he is actually doing it.

Every three hours during the day he has to stop whatever he is doing, call you, and talk with you on the phone for 20 minutes while he performs a similar task to the boiling water thing.

Go grocery shopping with him for the next several weeks. During that time he has to buy his regular groceries PLUS buy nursery water, diapers, wipes, formula and baby soap & shampoo. Out of his own money, his own budget. Maybe you can tell him that at the end of 2 months of him doing this, you'll "buy" those items back from him and donate them to a local "Young Mothers" program or something - but that for two months, he has to incur that cost each and every week. You might also tell him that if he & A end up parenting, you'll reimburse him for those items and consider it a baby gift. That's at your discretion, of course.

In addition, if he intends to parent - take him to look at the cost of a car seat, crib, baby clothes, etc. Ask him how he is going to pay for those items.

Go to the store and buy a doll. Pop the head off and fill the body with sand. Have J2 treat it like a baby - carry it around with him, "feed" it, etc. He has to take it everywhere with him.

Sit him down with a phone book and a phone - have him call every day care center in the phone book. Have him ask if they a) take infants and b) how much per week they charge.

Have him take you (he either has to drive, or figure out the bus route, or whatever) down to the local public aid office. Let him wait in line to be called. Have him ask the counselor what sort of benefits he would be entitled to, etc. Remind him that going to the office is something he will probably have to do at least once a month. I doubt he's going to enjoy sitting in the waiting room with screaming kids and such.

Tell him he has to clean up his apartment and keep it clean. Every day he should also have to wash and sterilize 8 glasses so he understands what is involved.

In other words, give him a serious reality check for a while. Let him experience just what is involved in choosing to parent this baby.

All of this gives him a chance to prove himself - to "earn" your support. Or to decide that maybe this isn't something he is ready to do. I've known a few young men who really stepped up to the plate when their child was born - against some pretty compelling evidence that there was no way they would be capable of parenting. They wanted it that badly. Give him a chance to demonstrate that before the baby is born.

[lucyjoy]

Did you ask him how he plans to take care of this child? What does he really know?

I've been watching my son try to parent for close to 4 months. He can't afford baby formula, but he can afford beer. His electricity was shut off 3 times in 6 months because he didn't pay the bill-but he had money to eat out and see movies. He will get up in the middle of the night and feed the baby. He screams at me and at his girlfriend, but not at the baby. Even with 2 of them, they have difficulty balancing things. I've bought most of the diapers, clothes, furniture etc that the baby has.
He's currently angry at me because I won't throw my 17 year old out of my house. I wonder who's going to buy the things that baby needs while my son is having his selfish tantrum. I don't think either parent currently has a job even.

If you don't think your son can parent this child, don't help him get custody. If he wants this, let him figure out how to get his legal help on his own. If he can figure that out and prove he can parent, then you step in and help. If he cannot even make it to school or keep a job, what happens when he tires of the baby's care?

I'm all for bfather's rights but if he really wants to be a dad, he needs to prove he can. He needs to get that everything becomes about the baby and nothing is any longer about him. My son doesn't get that.

Like Mike said, sit him down and be very blunt. Babies don't stay babies and he's talking about 18+ years of his life supporting someone else and putting their needs first.

[crick]

Echoing all the things people have suggested to help J2 fully understand the committment and hard work it takes to raise a child.

I'd also strongly recommend that A receive independent and neutral counselling from someone who can help her make the best decision for her & child. (not coercing for any decision, just to help her reach her own decision) If after counselling, she is still planning to relinquish, then that's the decision she makes and it will then be a different plan required on J's part. (to not sign etc.)

For that matter, I think J could benefit from counselling from a neutral person too. You are his dad and let's face it...when you are 18, your parents know nothing.

((HUGS))

[Original Mike]

Quote: "You are presently parenting 6-8 children, how could you add another to this list??"

I would suggest you get to know someone before making judgement calls on their ability to be a parent. If there is anyone I know who could take on this responsibility, it is Indy.

[Lorraine123]

You are presently parenting 6-8 children, how could you add another to this list??

How rude and judgemental.

[kay]

Indy, I agree that J2 needs a wakeup call as to the responsibilities of parenting - especially single parenting, especially at such a young age. Others have given great practical suggestions on how to point out to him a bit of what that responsiblity might look like. I'll just add that I'm praying for your sanity and peace of mind through this whole process, and of course, for the best of everything for GrandbabyGirl.

[crick]

Alinev - I realize you are relatively new to the site, so just wanted to say that I hope you read some more because if you knew Indy and his experience, I think you might have a different opinion or at least a different way of stating your opinion.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

Well -- what are the chances of A just giving him custody? She would have to pay him child support.

I think that is a missing piece here. If he refused to relinquish his rights...well she needs to figure out what she is going to do. I dont see in many cases where the mom is just going to hand the baby over to dad.... most that I have seen would parent before doing that...

I guess it defeats the purpose of instilling his rights into him, just to say.. well on second thought... KWIM?

[crick]

I'm not offended by your facts...just the way you present them. There's a way to say things nicely, imo, while still being honest.

Using terms like knocked up (takes 2 to make a baby) or implying that someone who didn't use birth control cannot be a suitable parent....not cool, imo.

And yes...6-8 children is a lot for any parent to handle, but handling it he is. I just think you are being pretty judgemental or at least coming across that way. Sometimes a little honey rather than vinegar goes a long way...and you can still voice your opinion.

[MissyB9479]

Originally Posted by FH-numbr1dbcksfan

Well -- what are the chances of A just giving him custody? She would have to pay him child support.

I think that is a missing piece here. If he refused to relinquish his rights...well she needs to figure out what she is going to do. I dont see in many cases where the mom is just going to hand the baby over to dad.... most that I have seen would parent before doing that...

I guess it defeats the purpose of instilling his rights into him, just to say.. well on second thought... KWIM?

Good point. It makes me think of another possibility, could J2 be trying to drag this out in an attempt to stay connected to A. I got the feeling that this experience sort of served as an end to their romantic relationship and it would not be unexpected if he hoped that his fighting to parent could at least keep her in his life.

Maybe I'm reaching but I just can't believe that J2 really thinks that he can do this. I'm sure that he wants to be able to do it but he realizes that he can't even pay the cable bill. I keep thinking that maybe his resistance to adoption has more of an emotional reason then logical.

In any case I'd advise that you keep doing what you're doing. Support and love but without having to actively help him out. If this means enough to him he will have to try and find the resources to establish paternity and get custody and if he is able to stay focused enough to make that happen then maybe he is ready to be a father.