[kay]

Hi all,

Last night I came home to a letter from a local adoption agency, telling me that, in conjunction with my agency, they are starting a parenting/mentoring/support group, to include options like therapy, support groups, groups for kids, and mentoring. I've been having big-time teen problems with C recently, so I was thrilled to death to read this - just what we need, and what perfect timing! Then I continued to read, and discovered that I had been referred by my agency as someone to be a mentor to someone else! I had to laugh at the irony (and am undecided as to whether to take this on.)

And then, in addition to everything else that's going on with C, this morning I found (in plain sight in the livingroom, for heaven's sake!) a Playboy magazine! I know he's of that age (14), and I'm not surprised, but I hadn't come up with an answer/argument yet! We haven't talked yet (this was within moments of my walking out the door for work) - I just asked him whose it was ("a friend's"). So tonight we have a continuation of The Discussion. Not sure quite how to handle this, since I know it's normal for him to be curious - I'm thinking I'll talk with him about his girl friends (many!), and about how pornography is degrading to women, and would make him only see women (and ultimately his "friends") as sex objects not as people. And also, I don't much want it in my house. (And I know he'll be angry at my even attempting to talk to him about it.)

Any words of wisdom? Especially from those with teen boys?

[lucyjoy]

Mine printed pictures off the computer and forgot them on my desk. Don't you just love boys?

My friend sat her son down to "read" the magazine with him. She wanted him to tell her what was so interesting(not a first time porn incident)

I tell them it degrades women. I also use it as an opportunity to discuss sex,(okay, they're pretty quiet except for gross and other such sounds) STD's, pregnancy etc(the going rate of child support tends to be the most eye opening part). For repeat offenders, we also cover condom use and how it's done. Probably doesn't stop them from looking at the stuff, but it does deter them from leaving it where I can find it.

[dadfor2]

do i dare post.....never mind....ill just get in trouble.

not sure if your married kay, but if you are, maybe talk to your husband and have him talk to your son.

[lucyjoy]

My husband would rather die then explain sex to the kids and they know it. While they likely don't appreciate my bluntness at times, they do come to me with questions when they have them-even if they know I won't like why they're asking.

[kay]

dadfor2 (haven't seen you around in awhile - is everything ok?) - nope, not married, it's just him and me. And, while my natural disposition is to be pretty quiet and withdrawn, C doesn't know that, because I force myself to be blunt and matter of fact. If I let myself, I'd be just as embarrassed as him! The thing that'll make it most difficult is that he'll be angry and defensive, so I'm not sure he'll hear anything I'll say. This is something they never mentioned in my adoption classes!

[lucyjoy]

Kay-just think of the things you could share as a parent mentor-Now when you find the playboy....or when your son makes his own curfew....

Seriously, you really would be able to provide some very valuable information to some parents out there as they really do miss a lot in these classes. It would be a big time commitment while trying to work with a teenager's attitude at the same time so that would be a consideration.

My kids are defensive and angry when I bring this stuff up(more because they are really embarrassed)but I do think they hear what I say anyway(though they act as if they didn't)

[Barksum]

I'm not sure that most teens really "hear" talks about things such as 'this is degrading to women'. You still need to give them that information and do your best to make sure they get the message but I'd not put all my eggs in that basket.

I think that I would take a leaf from Lucy's friend and talk about the magazine with him. Talk about what he thinks this is all about; then share what you think. I'm not sure I'd get past discussing the table of contents, though. (Does Playboy have a table of contents? I mean, isn't the whole point of the magazine the centerfold, and how hard is that to locate? Are there really articles, or are they just reams of non-sequencial words cut and pasted from catalogs somewhere?)

I've never seen a magazine such as Playboy and I'm not sure I'd want to put that into my mind. I'm also not sure if I could "seriously" discuss what I was seeing. So perhaps I'd put the magazine on the table and discuss it without going thru it page by page.

When we had foster kids I had to have some frank discussions about sex and drugs, also what was appropriate to view on the computers at school (oi, don't they have filters?!) but I never had to view anything myself. The way I approached each child depended on the level of trust within the relationship. Usually we were able to be pretty open, candid and upfront about what we were discussing. I also tried to keep the discussions about what the outcomes for each of our choices are likely to be. We would talk about what would be the most likely outcome of chosing to continue to use drugs, or continuing to not complete homework assignments, lying to one's foster parents, etc. We talked about the idea of having goals (a foreign concept to many children from chaotic backgrounds) and how to reach goals once we decide what they are.

One such discussion went something like this: "If you chose to use drugs now, you most likely will still be using drugs in 5, 10, etc. years. If you are using drugs over the next 5 years you will most likely hang out with other people who use drugs. This is likely to attract the attention of various authorities and you will be under more scrutiny than those kids who aren't hanging with the druggies. Also you are more likely to choose a girlfriend who uses drugs. Your girlfriend is likely to get pregnant. Since both of you use drugs your child will most likely be born drug exposed/addicted and have developmental delays and a hard first year. Many parents who use drugs end up having their children removed from them by CPS at some time during the child's lifetime. So your child would end up in foster care. Hey, maybe they'll call me and I'll get to be your child's foster mom! Since I know how much you enjoy being in foster care I know this is what you want for your children.

On the other hand, you could choose to quit using drugs of any kind, keep your pants zipped and maybe get a job that would provide for you and your future family. You could be in charge of your own life, and your own children.

I can't make you do one or the other, but just based on practicality I'd suggest that you not keep using. I'd like you to let me know what you want to do, though, so that I don't waste my time trying to support you in not using drugs if that is what you really want to do."

It seemed to shock my foster child a bit that I was suggest that they had the ability to make choices and decisions and live with their own consequences. Also that using drugs, having sex, lying, not doing homework, etc. were active decisions that they were making. The child hadn't really seen that before.

[aMarylandfamily]

I'm probably hooking onto Dadfor2's side with this response since he hesitated ... sex and sexual urges are very normal for all children this age/timeframe ... girls generally talk it to death with each other whereas I think boys hide from it and try and get their hands on things such as the Playboy magazine to see and learn at the same time ... and while degrading from one standpoint can be turned into a very positive teaching point (if the adult doing so can get through it ... my dh too would rather take a bridge than face this discussion with our son ... more girlfriends have said "I'm amazed you and your Mom talk about it" ... but rather than have him learn just the nasty parts am determined to teach him the goodness to it including the caring and love that should accompany any relationship - not just sexual!

Ok ... don't shoot the messenger ...

[Indy]

Forgive me if I am blunt in this post.

I have always been very open about discussing things with the boys. If I am not, then they will learn about it elsewhere (like from their friends at school). Kay, I think finding that magazine was great, especially out in the open! I don't think it was an accident. By finding the magazine, you have an opportunity to talk to your son about one the greatest (and personal) things in his life. How you handle this will affect his perception of sex the rest of his life.

I read in one of the weekly magazines (Newsweek, Time, USNews type) an article about children and sex, that if you have not spoken to your child by the age of 11, "...you are to late." It goes on to say that many children have either "experimented with others (peers) or themselves" by this age! Ok...this put me in a state of shock! I thought I was doing good talking to the boys at the age of 13! I was two years late!

So far, I have only found some inappropriate pictures on a computer. They have also visited a couple of websites. I have gone through the computers and deleted the pictures and have put a "tracker" on the computer for access. The program does not block, only notify the user (and me) that the website is being tracked.

Ok...here is where I will probably take some MAJOR hits. Being curious about the opposite sex is natural. I would rather that they learn in a healthy, caring way rather than from their buddies at school. I agree that Playboy that makes women out to be an object. I have taken the material (that they have brought into my house) and went through it with my sons in an objective way. I have spoken openly about the material and why they want to see it. I have also reminded them that the girls posing on those sites (or magazines) are someone's sister/mother/daughter.

I think the best approach is one that is not confrontational. I would not punish C for the first offense. I would use it as a learning experience. Now, if C brought in another magazine I would then consequence him for disobedience. Sex should not be a taboo subject to talk with your children about. I teach private, but not dirty. I think (know) that children learn from their friends that sex is dirty. Sexually abused children already have that thought. We have to work with them and change that mode of thinking. Any opportunity I have to put a "clean" spin on sex, I do.

I also make sure that ANY movie my sons watch, I know what the content is. If there is some sexual situation, I speak to them about it. It has gotten to the point that the boys tell me, "I know dad, sex is not dirty and it is not like the movie". Teachers from school are to call me, prior to showing the boys a movie. This may sound a bit overboard, but I have spent many hours with the boys in counseling.

Sorry this went so long...

Have a great day!

[dadfor2]

alright...ill say it. i think its perfectly normal for a teen boy to have these magazines, and i dont think there is anything wrong with it.

I wouldnt encourage and go out and buy him one....but i wouldnt worry about it too much either that he is on his way to become a sexual deviant.

yes, i understand how that degrades woman, and yes, teen males should become educated on it...but it aint gonna stop them from looking.

its healthy and normal...males are very visual

i would bet that males are more uncomfortable talking about sex then females. (the Maturity thing and all)

i would simple die if my mother talked to me, page by page......

yes the conversation does need to happen. but more of an education thing and not a shame thing...if he has the magazine...then its time for the sex talk......if you havnt had it already.

i wouldnt go through it page by page...i think that would be too much.....only because i find it healthy for teen males to have a magazine..and i wouldnt want the teen to feel so embarresssed.

i would simple say that i found your magazine and i want to talk to you about it....but thats how i would handle it...but of course im coming from how i would of felt if my mother might of found my magazines...

as for the teen leaving it out in the open....to be honest, thats a little odd. but i dont know your son.

so, i dont think its such a big deal, but the conversation does need to happen.

[crick]

Kay - 1st - I think it's awesome that you've been asked to be a mentor! I do this with my agency as well and sometimes I think I'm just not experienced enough to be doing it since I've only been a mom for a little over 3 years. Then I told myself that 3 years with my kids is more like 8 years and at any rate, even 1 year is a lot more experience than a new or about to be parent. So...don't knock yourself, you really do have a lot to offer.

I find most of the time the new parents really just want to vent and be able to talk to someone who actually understands. Just like we do on here...kwim? To be able to say "I just don't like my child" and not get a horrified look, or whatever it is.
So I hope you do this and think you'll be great!

The playboy...if you don't like it in your home, then that's the rule. It is a very natural thing for teen boys to be interested in. I think it's important to discuss why you don't like the mags and discuss the sexuality things, but I wouldn't make a big humiliating issue out of it.

[spaypets]

Ok, I'm in the odd position of defending Playboy, up to a point, but only because Barksum questioned whether they really have articles.

Yeah, they do. Pretty interesting ones as a matter of fact, by some of the great writers out there. Their music critics were from the Village Voice and Rolling Stone. Really, some of the articles were fascinating reading (admittedly it's been a while since I read one).

How do I know this? I worked at Playboy's editorial offices in Chicago briefly right after college.

Do I think it's appropriate reading for a teenage boy? No, but on the other hand, there really is some literary value to it (and back in the mid 80s a Playmate of the month supposedly made $20,000).

One thing you can tell C is that the women pictured, don't really look like that. There was one staffer whose main job was to find all the flaws on the model and airbrush them out. Seriously. So now that they're all silicone enhanced, and waxed and made up, they still have flaws that have to be taken out of the photos.

What's more, if a boy gets in the habit of only getting turned on by the pictures in the magazines, he's going to have trouble getting excited by real women and he'll be alone and 40.

[dadfor2]

ok, im a guy..lol

heres some honesty.....

lol.....i wish there were more men on here...i would love to take a poll of how many of us when we were teens had porno magazines hidden in our room....

first it starts with looking at the bra section of clothes magazines.....(sorry ladies, but some of us have done that.) and if we were lucky, maybe one of our friends got a hold of national geographics, where breasts were being exposed.....you would of thought we had found a million bucks..

again, men are very visual, and its very healthy and normal. i do disagree that he wont find 'real woman' attractive.....because my bet is, that most men at one time when they were younger had a porno magazine....or looked through one.

and alot of men do get married....because no picture is as good as the real thing.

sorry ladies, this is something that you will just have to disagree with me, but males like to look at pretty ladies......the time.......

there is some satictic out there at how often males think about sex in an hour...i forgot what it was....

i probably shouldnt even be contributing to this thread....just dont shame the boy....there is nothing to be shameful about...its healthy and normall.....

[ericsmom98]

Dadfor2....I'm totally with you. What teenage boy DOESN'T want to look at naked pics of women? It's totally natural. But if it's your house rule, then it's the rule. Just tell him not to bring any more home.



And ITA with spaypets following remarks:

"One thing you can tell C is that the women pictured, don't really look like that. There was one staffer whose main job was to find all the flaws on the model and airbrush them out. Seriously. So now that they're all silicone enhanced, and waxed and made up, they still have flaws that have to be taken out of the photos.

What's more, if a boy gets in the habit of only getting turned on by the pictures in the magazines, he's going to have trouble getting excited by real women and he'll be alone and 40."

[dadfor2]

What's more, if a boy gets in the habit of only getting turned on by the pictures in the magazines, he's going to have trouble getting excited by real women and he'll be alone and 40."

i have to disagree with this statement. ask any male if they got turned on looking at naked pictures of woman and then they were turned off looking at real woman......

teenage boys can get turned on looking at anything with a breast.....

who knows, maybe this is the difference of the sexes...i totally disagree with this statement.

men love the real thing...but when they dont get it, a picture will just have to do....and what male, given the choice, would prefer to look at a 'real woman' vs a beauty queen...

sorry guys, this one i pretty confident that men prefer real over any picture in a magazine.