[Lindsie]

Help! I've been appointed as the Legal Aid Lawyer for 2 kids that were removed from their mother years ago. Any tips in dealing with them would be greatly appreciated.

They are 10 yrs old and 8 yrs, but the 10yr old is about 1yr behind developmentally and the 8yr old is closer to 6 developmentally. I need to take their instructions so that I can go to court for them.

Is there anything you would suggest I do/don't do when speaking to them? Is there anything you wish your kids were/weren't told about the process?

These kid's sort of understand that they live with their grandparents but don't seem to grasp the bio-mom concept. Their background is pretty much what you would expect, but have had no contact with their mother for 7yrs and she now wants monthly visits. Please help!

[Kelly Rae]

Hi, how wonderful for you to take the time to be sensitive to their needs.

Be honest and keep it simple. Explain everything as if you were speaking to much younger children. Give more information if they ask for more.

We had two sibs that were abused in their previous foster homes by other foster kids. I tried to impress upon them that if anyone does anything that makes them scared or uncomfortable (they were afraid to tell the former foster parents) to tell their lawyer or sw.

Good luck!

[tybeemarie]

I was a legal aid lawyer before becoming a foster parent, and as I look back, I am AMAZED that lawyers know so very little about attachment disorders and their implications. For example, a major symptom of kids with RAD is lying and triangulating--good to know when interviewing a child, or when evaluating what a child said to a third party. Especially with attachment disordered children, just because they said it doesn't mean it's true.

Another area that I would change if I could is the shocking dearth of information given to foster parents about the children in their care. Most are told almost nothing about the children in their care, and have to learn the hard way what their triggers are, what special needs they have, what dangers the birth family presents.

Children almost always want to be with their birth parents and many have very unrealistic fantasies about what life would be like, regardless of how toxic life with the birth family was. As a lawyer, I think the children's wishes should be presented to the court, but where those wishes are plainly harmful to the child, that needs to be presented too. Along with real clinical information, which for many foster children is hard to find because so many of them receive horrendous mental health services. And dental care and pediatric care, too, for that matter.

If this is a relative placement, I would see if I could find out how much contact has gone on already, and with what effect. Two of my children's siblings 6 siblings live with their maternal grandmother, and have more or less daily contact with their birth mother, who has not changed her life in any way. The difficult thing about relative placements is that some are wonderful, and some are a continuation of long-standing dysfunctionality. Further complicating matters is that lots of kids in relative placements have been in them for years. They're marginal placements, but removing children is very traumatizing. So, what's worse? Hard to say.

As to what kids find upsetting, I find my kids do much better with our current social worker, who keeps her interactions with them light and upbeat, as opposed to the GAL investigator, who presents more as a probation officer. Obviously, you have to interview your clients to see if they're safe. However, they are only likely to have forthright conversations with you if they know you. If you see your clients once or twice a year, it's doubtful that they are going to disclose difficult information to you. That you are a caring adult is the message you want them to get.

Questions that come to mind: Visits after 7 years? What has changed that now official visits are sought? More fundamentally, why is this case still open after 7 years? What a sad lack of permanency for these kids.

[po]

I wondered also why after 7 years the case is still open. How do the grandparents feel about the mother wanting visits? How have the kids adjusted to life with the grandparents? Has the mother cleaned up her act or is she wanting something and then will leave again further tramatizing the children. If they have had no contact with the mother for 7 years, why open a keg of worms. What are the laws on abandonment? Has she paid child support? When you are divorced after a certain length of time aren't the kids considered abandon and can be adopted by the step parent? You have so many questions to find the answers to. I am sure others also have questions to add. po

[Lindsie]

Thanks for the advice! I forgot to mention that I'm in Australia and our social services (DOCS) are basically toothless tigers. There is no such thing as TPR in Australia and unless the parents are dumb enough to say things that indicate they intend to continue abusing their child, contact is not cut off.

I don't know how all of you manage to parent these kids! It may be just that I'm a bit of a soft touch but watching a child shake every time her mother was mentioned has really spun me out, likewise the fact that mentioning her mother's boyfriend casues her pupils to dilate!

Hopefully I managed to get them to understand that I was just there to tell the court what they think is best(which isn't entirely true, it has to be with regard to what is in their best interests, not necessarily just what they want)

It just makes me sick to see what people can do to their kids.

[Lorraine123]

I am just going to re-iterate what Tybeemarie said - these children probably have attachment issues. Do some research on exactly what that means. They will lie and triangulate and you will not even realize it. Children with attachment problems are very charming. They can convince anyone of anything if that is what they choose. They will not trust you, but they will make you think that they do. Keep your guard up.

I would think that it would be damaging for these children to see their birthmom again after 7 years if she has not changed. Even if she has changed, the children need therapy prior to seeing her again. They are obvious traumatized by her.

Good luck.

[Barksum]

If your Toothless Tiger determines that the children must have visits with bio mom, can you request that they be supervised? Here in the US visits can be court ordered to be supervised, so was wondering if these little ones need to see mom montly if they could meet at a visiting room at your child welfare office and have them "facilitated" or supervised by a social worker.

Seeing mom can be traumatic for children, particularly if this makes them wonder if they will be moving back in with her. From our family's experience, children who believe that at any moment they could be whisked away from the only home they feel safe in (and remember, children don't process information and understand the way adults do) they become fearful on a very basic level. If they believe that there is no stability in where they will live (that is not the house where they will live but whom the core family will be) they will be under the apprehension that their whole world can change in a moment. Long term uncertainty and fear of this sort is very deterimental. This can cause lasting trauma -- effecting not just themselves but the families they form as adults.

Hope you are able to advocate well for these little guys and that the court is able to hear what you say and proceed to do what is truly in the best interest of these children.