[Indy]

My oldest JA (22) is dating this girl, KI.

On Sunday morning (at 7:55AM) I received a call from JA. KI was mad that he was not around when she got back from her overnight with her girlfriends. KI had gotten home at 7:30. She told him that if he was not home soon that she was going to throw all of his stuff out on the lawn. JA has his own apartment, but has a lot of stuff at the home of KI's mother. He asked me to take him to KI's home. I agreed, with the understanding that he was going to take all of his stuff out of her house. He agreed.

On our way down to KI's home, I stopped and spoke to a police officer. I asked him to sit outside the home to make sure that nothing happened. I explained the situation. He followed us to KI's house and parked outside. JA went inside to get his stuff. KI commenced to yelling and cussing at him. She said very cruel things about JA, my family, and especially me (cussing at me).

I am not sure what type of thing is wrong with KI. I think she has a mixture of autism, bi-polar, and just generally rude. Her mother is in love with JA. The mother told me that she loved JA and would do anything for him. I told her that her daughter should feel that way. The mother tried to mediate between the two. I guess she has done this before. I told her that JA and KI needed to work this out. I left with JA, as he was supposed to be at work at 10AM. We went back to his apartment.

After I left, JA called KI. KI's mother came over and picked JA up!! I did not know this until last night. Supposedly, they "worked things out".

I am giving you a BRIEF of the situation...as this is really a long and complicated story. JA just called me and asked if we are still "celebrating" KI's birthday this Thursday. Did I miss something? The last thing I want to tell KI is "Happy Birthday". I could think of many other things that are more appropriate! This is not the first time that she has blown up like this. I do not like her coming to our house. JO and MA ripped into her for calling me a "crackhead" two weeks ago. KI has hit JA before, in my house! I feel very strongly that KI presents a danger to JA. She acts very childish around the boys. She stares at JO and MA (good looking boys) so much that they usually hide in their rooms when she is there. Heaven forbid, JO come out with no shirt on...

I THINK I know what I should do. I love my son JA. He is very special to me. He has chosen to stay with KI. I do not believe that we should celebrate KI's birthday. I feel we should give this some time before we have KI over again. BUT I lose time with my son... JA will not go anywhere without KI.

Help!

[kay]

Indy,

Sorry, I can't think of a solution that will solve everything. On the one hand, you love JA and want to accept his loves into your home and your life, so of course you have to include her. But on the other hand, you're dealing with a pretty toxic person, one who makes the rest of your kids very uncomfortable. Would it work at all to invite her with restrictions? It would have to be JA who set the limits for it to be effective - is he strong enough to do that? Say "you're welcome to come over Thursday night, but you cannot be rude/call people names, etc." And then, ideally, he'd be the one to say "it's time to leave now" if she steps over the line. Sounds like a big burden for a young man in love, in essence he'd have to turn into a tough love parent for the night. If he can't do that (and I'd certainly understand, even in an older/more experienced person!), then you have to gauge just how toxic she is likely to be to the rest of your kids, and you may have to be the bad guy who says "nope, sorry, not with her."

I'll be interested in hearing what others come up with, since we're not too far from that age. So far, C has girl friends, rather than a girlfriend, and, so far, I like them all. But I know that can change at any moment!!

[kiwi]

Wow, Indy, no easy way to go about it for sure I think Kay's idea is a good one since I'm sure JA realizes how, um, difficult KI can be and it would be up to him to decide just how much he will allow her to damage his family, if at all.

Another route could be to ask your other boys what they think and have them tell JA how they feel. I can't imagine my older brother bringing someone into our home that made everyone want to leave after he knew how we felt. Not much of a party if she chases the crowd away.

[lucyjoy]

I've found it best to let my boys choose who they wish to be with. If you don't accept the girlfriend it simply allows her in between you and your son and damages your relationship, not theirs. If you keep the door open even when you'd rather slam it shut, it will allow your son to be able to continue to come to you with his concerns. Just keep building him up and hopefully, he'll realize for himself that this person is toxic.

It might help if at another time other then her birthday if you could go somewhere with just your son and his girlfriend and talk to her about the hurtful things she's said to you.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

Well.. Id just say that you think you'll pass on the celebration... and that he can go ahead and celebrate with her himself...

Just tell him that you dont feel comfortable having her at your house and when she is ready to talk and apologize to you, and behave apropriately, then maybe you would think about letting her over again. But not before.

I mean.. you miss time, yes... but she is responsible for her actions... and he needs to stand up for himself. I think the end result could be worth it...

You seem to be a great dad...Im sure you will work it out...

[Barksum]

I think you're a great dad who thinks creatively and compassionately about his family. This will be an on-going issue. After all, you do have several young men growing up in your home. How you set the general precedents with JA will be how your other sons expect the rules to be for them. (Did that make sense?)

If you talk with JA about limits while his girlfriend is in your house and expect him to enforce the limits that are set, you may have to help JA recognize when those limits have been crossed. Can you two agree on a high sign that lets JA know that it is time to take KI on home? Perhaps a better way to go would be to decide that you will have cake and ice cream and then JA and KI will leave. Or a 45 min - 1 hr. time limit. That kind of thing. JA may need help in setting and keeping the limits (from what you've shared before).

I agree that having the boys meet with JA and discuss their concerns MAY be appropriate at a later day. You would have to be precise about what the discussion would be about. It is NOT about bashing anyone, no matter how trying that person is; rather, it is letting the boys tell their brother why they are uncomfortable having a friend of his in their home. Trying to squeeze that in before the "party" may not be the thing. JA is starting to establish his independence and having a girl friend is part and parcel of that process. He does need his family support behind him, though, and even if you can't support the girl, continue to support HIM.

It also does not sound like you are going to get any productive support from KI's mom.

Keeping communication between you and JA is paramount. If any of the above is going to cause a rift between the two of you, take a few steps back and keep in mind the core issues of your family. What needs to happen to ensure the long term core goals for your family? I believe that you have the right idea on how to handle whatever issues have arisen within your family and that you'll make wise choices in this situation too.

[tybeemarie]

Indy,

I haven't been in this situation, so my advice isn't worth much, but I'll give it all the same! You can't make JA stop seeing KI, obviously. BUT you don't have to have KI into your home with your sons. She sounds very inappropriate, disrespectful, and unstable. I am saddened to hear that she's hit your son, and in your own house to boot. What a terrible thing for your sons to observe.

I can see how hard it must be, though, when JA won't do anything without her. That is very unhealthy, of course, and it must be heart-breaking to see this relationship play itself out.

I will keep you and JA in my prayers. And KI. She is a lost soul with what sounds like an enabling mother. Sad all around. JA is very blessed to have such a loving father and close family. I have to believe that your love will prevail in the end.

[Wanting2help]

Indy, you are in a load of trouble! Like all before me has stated, your ****ed if you do and ****ed if you don't. on the other hand, you have a house full of testosterone that should be able to overcome any girl that could be allowed inside your front door. I say let her over and if she throws one punch everyone hit her with water baloons....... LOL no just kidding there. but to get real, do not let KI make you take a step backward with JA. you have a lot of lessons that can be learned from this situation from all of your boys in the way you handle it. On one hand, you have to try to do the right thing just to teach rightousness to your sons. how do you want them to handle the situation. Maybe the real way to take care of it is just to all go out to a buffett and have a piece of cake with a candle brought to your table for her (that always embarress's (spelling) everyone. this way you do not have to deal with it in your house and when it is over everyone can go their own way. To deny her special day would do nothing but put a bigger wall between you JA and KI and if the enivitable was to happen (can you say marriage) you would have a long bad relationship. remember that she is also young and has not been raised with the best methods. slowly over time this can be changed (just keep adding testosterone), but it will have to be JA that eventually realizes what he has and what he deserves. any attempt to undermine his thoughts or love will not set well this time or in the future. SIMPLY PUT BE A FATHER!

Good luck

[waitinginnj]

I read this post late last night and couldn't stop thinking about it. I would look up infomation on how to handle dating abuse. Although it appears to be more prevelant for young women, I am sure that your son is not alone.

If J was your daughter - you would never tolerate her being hit. You would do everything in your power to separate her from the boy.

My short term plan would be to arm myself with some facts and stories of this type of abuse. I know that Oprah has done shows on it, so there is info out there. Let your son know that you are not comfortable being around her, due to the way that she treats you and your family. I don't think that I would request an apology from her. It won't mean anything to you and it puts her back in control, which is a lot of what abuse is all about. I would agree to meet him out for a piece of cake - simply to keep the lines of communication open.

I grew up one of three sisters. My parents were always very nice to the young men that we brought home. They were welcome in our home etc. Something like a "family style" birthday celebration would not happen until there were rings on fingers and dates set. If one of these young men oggled another one of us or treated other family members disrespectfully, they would not be welcome in our home. They were considered guests until the rings. (Granted my folks may have been a bit old school.)

If I remember correctly, this was the son that made you aware of a potential placement not fitting well into your family and causing trouble for some of his brothers. If appropriate, I may base my discussion similar to the one that he had with you. He was able to recognize the bad treatment when it impacted others, but it is always harder to see what is happening directly to us.

I would also caution him to be very careful. Unfortunately, when there are no witnesses a call to the cops and an accusation from her of abuse will likely have him end up in jail as male on female abuse is more prevelant.

I am sure that you will find a solution. Good luck with this one.

[ericsmom98]

wow....I don't know....that's a toughie! I think I'd do as others have said and instead of having her at your house....meet at a restaurant and if any of your boys feel uncomfortable going, let them stay home. GL + + +

[Indy]

I called and spoke to KI's father. Her parents are divorced. The father was completely supportive of how I handled the situation on Sunday. He has had to take the police to his ex-wife's home before, but usually to get rid of KI boyfriends not to protect the boyfriend. He and I spoke about 20 minutes about what is going on. A BIG part of the problem is KI's mother. She has no life and tries to live her's through them. If she was not around, the kids would have broken up some time ago. KI's father agrees.

I also spoke to JA last night. I told him that I loved him very much. We talked about what happened on Sunday. I reminded him who has been there for him for the past six years. Actually, this weekend will mark six years ago I picked him up from his temporary foster home. I told JA that if a child of mine spoke to an adult like I was spoken to on Sunday, I would have "back-handed" him. Ok...I went extreme...but it would not have happened in my house! KI was also disrespectful to her mother, who let her talk to her in that manner.

I am going to pay for the cake at the bakery. JA and KI are going to pick it up and take it to her father's house. I will also send her a gift. I spoke with the boys. They don't even want to go out with KI, even for cake! KI and JA came over 4 of 7 nights last week. I have decided that we need some time for things to cool off. We are skipping this week, maybe next week. Then, we will look at KI coming over for an hour or so. I will go down to his work every couple of days and take him to lunch.

One thing I did not mention is what happened when they first started dating. For 3 months, she refused to meet us for lunch/dinner at a restaurant or at home. So I literally did not see JA for 3 months. JA could have stood up to her then, he didn't. I know this relationship will collapse, as KI does not love JA. She only wants to possess him.

THANK YOU for all of your thoughts and ideas!!!

I like the recommendation about family parties for girlfriends...none until there is a ring on the finger! I am implementing that immediately. SO WHAT is they think I am OLD-fashioned! The family will give a gift, if the girlfriend has been around beyond one year. I had never really thought about this. This is new territory for me.

[missw005]

Indy,

Wow.....you are really freaking me out with this dating crisis - I can't even imagine J and Q dating!!! But with J's personality and Q's looks and flirting abilities, I'm sure I'll be mired in this muck in about 10 years.

So I don't have any personal experience in this except for what I see at school (I teach). JA's experience does appear to be abuse. It's not as common, but it does happen. One of my former students, Eli, was special needs - mostly low IQ. But a really nice, sweet kid. And he didn't see Katy coming. The rest of the students and staff certainly did. She saw him and saw $$$$. He works two jobs to buy her gifts, take her out to eat, etc. His family got him a newer car for graduation, which they let him pick out. Then Katy got in the middle and his sensible car to go to school and work became a convertible with black leather seats. That was just the beginning. She got pregnant, they had a baby, and are now living with his parents. He gave up school and just works as much as he can, trying to save up for them to get a house (?!?!) as Katy is "too good" for apartment living. It's just been a train wreck we've all been watching. It's so sad.

I like the idea of having your other boys talk to JA. Especially if he realizes none of them want to do things with him anymore if it involves Nasty Girlfriend. A little family honesty might help reality kick in for him.

So stick to your guns! Be old fashioned! (I am and my kids weren't too happy at first, but they got over it!) What this country needs is more old-fashioned values and parenting.........less of trying to be their childrens' friend and wishy-washy permissiveness.
(ok, I'll get off my soapbox now.)

I agree with the 1 yr. thing. It's a good marker for relationships. He can go over to her family's for her birthday. But you're paying for the cake? You softy, you! Glad to hear you and her dad are having good connections. That should help as well.

Good luck with this whole situation. OH! And congrats on your 7 yr old. Are you going to adopt him too, or is he just foster care? My, will you have to get a bigger van?????

Hope this works out for you.

Sandy

[numbr1dbcksfan]

I would give that some thought though.. I mean you have boys at home who you would probably require to bring their girlfriend to the house.... and that could be mucky requiring them... but not allowing the other's gf for a year.....

I think people bring their new bf's and gf's home... I dont know that I would want to meet parents for a few months...but Im not the "parent meeting" type since my relationship is not with them..... so I wouldnt think much about HER not coming over.... but certainly he should take time to come over....

And let your son know that She is NOT the be all to end all... there are OTHER girls out there and he deserves better. Ask him what he would do if YOU were in the situation... or one of your other sons....

You might even mention how hurt you are that he wouldnt make time for you, after everything, but instead chooses to be around someone who abuses him.... Tell him you just dont get where you went wrong that he would think highly enough of her that he would just stop visiting his family....

GUILT*GUILT*GUILT

(Good thing I have a girl and not a boy... I hate dating mama's boys... hahahaha! And I would surely have him around my finger.....)

[mn_mom4more]

Indy, I have no idea what it is like to be in your situation, but I do have some thoughts anyway.



I think first and foremost, we should teach our children that their friends are allowed in our home as long as they RESPECT us, our home, our rules, and all members living in our home. If someone walks through MY DOOR and disrespects me, there is no way I'm going to welcome them back, no matter who they are be it girlfriend, boyfriend, or buddy. It is NOT okay for someone to treat ANYONE like that, let alone the parent of their boyfriend!



Indy, if KI wasn't the girlfriend, but a buddy of JA's, how would you handle the situation?



I can see where JA could feel isolated and rejected if you told him KI wasn't allowed in your home, but the fact is the girl is disrespecting her boyfriends father. Not just by her behavior and actions, but also from her verbal abuse to you, JA's dad! I would let him know you love him and accept him no matter what, but it is not okay for JA to bring someone into your home who openly disrespects you. It is teaching the younger boys that it is okay to disrespect you, after all, you are allowing a girlfriend, of one of your boys, to treat you, and your home, that way!



Also, I would express your concern for JA that he would allow KI to treat HIM the way she does. Maybe it's time to discuss what kind of behaviors are acceptable, and unacceptable, again. JA is enabling KI, it isn't just her mother.



Although I was a sassy little thing growing up, I could never treat my boyfriends' father OR mother the way this girl has treated you. Her behavior completely amazes me!



I am still trying to process the fact that JA doesn't appear to have a problem with the way KI talked to his dad. What's wrong with this picture?



One question... is he using protection? LOL! That could be her next move if she thinks he may leave... she'll find a way to keep him!



numbr1dbcksfan

Tell him you just dont get where you went wrong that he would think highly enough of her that he would just stop visiting his family....

GUILT*GUILT*GUILT

I'm not so sure I agree with the "guilting" or "where did I go wrong" part. I didn't appreciate hearing "where did I go wrong" from my mother, who gave birth to me. I would think comments like that, when spoken to an adopted older child, would have a negative impact on him/her.


Indy, good luck, I think you are going to need it!

[Wanting2help]

Wow Indy, your still getting advice!

Well it looks to me like you doused the flames but still have to get the coals out!

I have thought of your situation and tried to put it into perspective with others I have seen in the past. A lot of people are really berating KI for her behavour, and I do not doubt that she deserves it but JA will have to shoulder some blame for not wearing the pants in the relationship (sorry gals). After thinking it over I thought, why not go deeper, maybe there are reasons for JA's thoughts (besides being in heat). is it possible that JA was abused when he was younger (before you adopted him?) and he is regressing to the love he once knew? I know that you have taught him differently over the years but maybe he still does not understand that that is not true love! maybe a trip down memory lane with him and yourself could help him get his perspective back. (remember this is all speculation based on an abused childhood that might not have even happened) A good one on one night out with you rehashing things that you may have gone through with him when you got him would help.

Whatever the reason for him hooking up with this B$tch, he stills needs to be sat down and told right from wrong. good relationships are based on mutual respect and in dw and my case a great friendship first helps. a man does not beat or degrade a woman or there family and should DEMAND the same respect.

The bottom line is that your door will always be open for him and whoever he wishes to bring into your home. but your home (and his too) will not be a place for abuse to anyone and by anyone (this is a great time to tell him how it has been so every since you brought him into your house and with every boy or young man since, PROOF). you can offer to make this rule clear the next time he brings KI over if he wishes (this keeps him from being the bad person) or he can set it straight, but the next time she steps out of line you will simply set the rules straight at that point along with an invitation to leave until she can follow the simple rules that all should live by. My advice if you have to go through the last step is to keep calm but really firm like a true adult in power and escort her and him out (or just her if he wishes to stay)the front door with a invitation to come back anytime as long as they follow the rules.

Good luck, and I am sure glad I will not have to worry about this for a long time.

P.S. a good hug would also be nice (you know maybe thats what she needs too......LOL)