[Lorraine123]

At the advice of our therapist, we began "strong sitting" yesterday. We have our daughter sit in her "thinking spot" for 8 minutes, indian style, hands on her knees, straight back, several times a day.

Yesterday she did it ok-ish. She even admitted that it helped calm her down. She did just before homework time and homework went smoothly (which is unusual). It was really nice.

Today, on the other hand, she fought it like a banchee. From what I understand, this isn't supposed to be punishment or a control battle, but thats what it turned into. What do you do when the child refuses?????

[HappyMomAnna]

Gosh Lorraine--I honestly don't know what advice to offer to you about this right now..... I agree we need to eliminate as many power struggles as we possibly can....

So it is not supposed to be punishment..... I am sure you are using a 'different spot' then you might for a time out? It seems logical to me (and most likely to you) that when we use the 'strong holding' we need to attempt to make it very different then we might use for time out?

I would suggest that maybe there is a 'special' spot for the strong holds...and possibly a different method of timing then we use during a time out. That way in their heads they don't associate anything about the time out with the strong holding work..... But I would think you are already HIP to this sort of thinking....

One thing I have done with Makala is to do the strong holding WITH her.... Sitting side by side and doing some deep breathing together.... I have told M that even mommies get uptight and that since some people find this is helpful we can do it together and mommy can get under control too....Not too sure what the therapist would say but I have figured that if it is good for the goose....

Honestly we have tried strong holding ourselves and it has been mostly a power struggle for us too....so we have NOT gotten into a real clear habit of it.....

What I have found that has worked on the same kind of level is the game Red Light/Green Light or Freeze Game.... I like Red Light/Green Light just in a random situation like when I am feeling she is starting to go off the edge---RED LIGHT---stop and breath and get a grip--Green Light---go.....Red Light--stop and think and breath---Green Light--go----Red Light--stop and think and breathe--Talk about what we are going to do when it is green light again....Green Light GO.

I have also found that "Simon Says" Sit in this spot for this long....Simon Says get up and shake out your arms....Simon Says Sit in this spot for this long....Simon Says get up and turn around three times.... Touch your nose.....HA Ha Ha lets play again!

The thing I hate about doing the regular strong holds is that I don't feel I can keep the same significant meaning to a time out.... I really do want M to understand the difference between getting control over her body and brain...and being in trouble.....

At M's new school we have been taught to keep the time outs in the same spot all the time...and in the time out place we have several new things that in the past never crossed my mind..... We have a poster with different Feelings hung by time out and a small box filled with some little items like a squeeze ball for letting out stress...and a little bear with different faces (happy--sad--mad--tired) to look at, we also have a 'Feeling book" a small note book and pencil to draw a picture of what you feel like when you are in time out today....

We and the day treatment are also using "Time Out" practice.... Which it is made clear to M if she argues or cries or will not take a time out that she will have a day of time out practice..... Not that she is in trouble this time....but, that she really does need to learn that when we say time out we mean time out so now we need to practice.... At school they will wait until she just gets into something and then suddenly say, Hey M it is time for time out practice....She has to go to the time out spot--and show that she can do it without opening her mouth or fighting it....sit down get under control and then she is praised for doing a good job and released....but every few minutes for 5 or 6 times in a row she has to do it again....and show that she is learning and that she will do this the same when it is a real time out.....

The thing with making it a practice seems to be that she wants to show everyone that she really does know how to mind and do a time out the way we all expect her to...and that we will praise her when she does well during a practice day and then next time we have to time her out we remind her of what a great job she did yesterday when she was just practicing and that we want to see her do it that way for real.....

Anyway I hope you keep us all posted about how the strong holds are working for you....I am interested but tend to agree that the fewer power struggles we make for the kids the better....

[Lorraine123]

Its very different than a time out. In fact, it isn't used as punishment at all. The location is different also because I don't want her to association this will punishment. We pick times to do it when she isn't being oppositional.

I think of it kind of like meditation. Its a time to be quiet, collect yourself, and get yourself under control. She sits still and takes deep breaths.

We do it mainly before transitions because she had a hard time moving from one task to another. It clears out the old stuff to begin with a clean slate. Not saying, we won't still have trouble, but if we begin the transition while calm we will have better results than beginning while hyped up.

She said last night that she more in control of herself after the strong sitting. Now, I don't know if she said that because of the placebo effect or what, but she did seem a little better. In fact, her older brother came to me last night and said "Whats up with Stacie, she is being so nice to everyone tonight".

[HappyMomAnna]

Well I guess that maybe like all the new things we try there is a learning curve and it may take time to see if this will be helpful or just a pwer struggle.....

I might ask the therapists if she thinks doing it together for awhile could be helpful or if that defeats the intention of having her do it on her own?

Please keep this thread posted I really am interested in how Stacie is able to tranisition better--looks like this is a big issue for our Jeremiah.....

[dadfor2]

i have no idea what 'stong sitting' is..but the words sound painful....

however, when i hear you talk about it, it sounds great!!!!!!!!!!

is there another name that you can call it for her instead of 'stong sitting'?..maybe a funner name.

again, im clueless when it comes to this, but is it something that she HAS to do, or something that she is suppose to WANT to do?

im guessing its suppose to be the later................

i liked what anna said about maybe joining in, if your not suppose to,

then maybe try to do reverse psych on her...make her think that she really loves it and wants to do it and you rather her not do it...(sometimes this has worked with my younger son....)

if she is battling with you, clearly, its not doing what its suppose to be doing....

i think if its part of her daily routine, she will just get in the habit of doing it...

but you guys know as much as i do, that they fight tooth and nail around any changes...then eventually they get it and then the fighting stops for a while.... its those first few weeks that are a killer...

i wish i could be more help, im not to educated on the stong sitting stuff...

but i took a stab at it....

[whoownsthis]

I don't know why it's called "strong sitting"--that's such a misnomer! The first time I heard it I thought it was what our mean old gym teacher used to make us do--lean against the wall in a sitting position until your legs were ready to fall off! (Thankfully that's not what it is.)

Really, it's just having the kids sit in their "thinking spot" with arms in their laps--to keep them quiet so that they can think about what they've done, or just stay there until the parent finishes whatever chore she/he can't get done while the little one is underfoot. You could also call it her "thinking chair" or "quiet spot."

8 minutes can be an eternity to a child, though. If she starts getting antsy, tell her she made it to her time (she probably won't know the difference), and reward her for doing a great job. Don't let it get to the screaming fits, though. If that happens, no rewards, but "sitting time" can be over.

Just my inexperienced opinion! (We've never tried strong sitting, but we have done the quiet time for a few minutes. It works the same....I'd have them sit quietly and think of 10 things they like about their day so far, or 10 things they like about themselves, or 10 things they like about the little brother they have been tormenting for the last hour, etc.)

[Lorraine123]

You are right about the name. "Strong Sitting" sounds really harsh, but that is what it is called in the attachment therapy world. We don't say, "Ok Stacie it is time now to strong sit." How weird would that be.... We call it her thinking spot.

Dad - its supposed to be something she wants to do. We certainly aren't to that point yet . But she does admit that it makes her feel good. When she sits with her back straight it makes her breathe deeply and it helps her relax.

Actually she just finished a session of it. So far, I'm liking this. She seems a little calmer (and I'll take whatever I can get). Don't get me wrong, she is still bouncing off the walls, but a little slower. I also think a few minutes of total quiet is good for her. She can't tolerate quiet and is constantly running her mouth, so this part of it is tough for her.

If you are interested, so a web search of strong sitting and read more. I don't see at all how it can be a bad thing. Kind of like meditation. I also like the idea of doing it with her. I sure could use some quiet time myself.

Let me know what you think if you do research it.....

[lucyjoy]

Stong sitting-because it builds inner strength

[dadfor2]

hi lorraine,

i figured thats what it is for....we do breathing with my kids, but not like what you do...your way sounds better.

when my kids are getting a little over excited...(thats an understatement.. ). i actually take their shoulders lightly, look in their eyes, and tell them to breath...we do it 5 times...until they calm down.

it does work, but only for a little while....or should i say, a few minites.....lol.

i have also done yoga with them (not as often as i should) and they seem to like that....

i will check out the website, because i know when my kids take their breaths, it does calm them some.

at this point, all i have to say is 'stop, calm down, breath'.....and they do it now on their own....because im sure they can see where it does some calming for them.

ill check out the website....'strong sitting'....sounds awful...

[kay]

Interesting, the phrase "strong sitting" has no negative connotations at all for me - perhaps because I first heard it in a workshop with Nancy Thomas. (She is an amazing woman, I can't recommend her books/tapes highly enough.) My understanding of it (without referring back to a book) is that it's to help the child gain control of themselves - so the "strong" applies to the child - the child who may be scattered and unfocused and out of control. To help them realize that they can be in control of themselves and their actions. It takes practice for them to be aware of what's going on inside, and the sitting is a discipline (not a punishment, but a tool) to help them center. That's just my understanding of it, I may be off, but I do highly recommend getting some of the tapes/books. My son didn't have huge attachment problems (thank goodness!) but some of the techniques/tips would be valuable, I think, even with non-adopted kids.

[dadfor2]

actually, with my older son, we played a game to see when he gets angry, how 'strong' he was, what kind of 'strong' super hero he was, by fighting off the angry feelings...(this didnt work by the way... )

i know it has nothing to do with 'strong sitting'..

but i thought id put in a plug for the word 'strong'....lol

when i saw the title of the thread, i always vision a child, that someone is sitting on to contain them......i know it has nothing to do with, but thats the image that pops in my head when i hear that term....

[Lorraine123]

Yes Kay. You are exactly right in your understanding of it. It gives them strength to control themselves. It is a Nancy Thomas thing.

I would recommend it for everyone, not just adopted or just RAD children. We all could use some grounding. I sound like an expert here, and she has been doing it for only 2 days .

She has even quit arguing about it (which makes me a little nervous). She seems to like it. I wonder what the catch is......

[dadfor2]

lorraine,

i agree, that i think everyone, not just kids, take the time each day and just sit and breath...what a nicer world we would all live in...

im going to check out the web site.....

[Joyful Momma]

Another alternative to the "strong sitting" concept is one we used with our youngest daughter- we call it "rewind" or "unwind" time. If we were in the middle of chaos (or a lie), we can call timeout (like sports) and "rewind". She voluntarily goes to either her room, the bathroom, wherever, and stops and thinks about what was happening, what went wrong, how to fix it, then comes back in and "re-does" it. As long as she catches herself, or responds politely/positively when we catch it in progress, then she can do that and not be punished. (Its hard to break a lifetime of bad habits without this "retraining" period).

The "unwind" works a little differently. We used to use it a lot- when we switched from schoolwork to playtime or vice versa, or came in from somewhere, she would take a few minutes to "unwind" and sort out her thoughts and get ready for the next activity. We let her keep her spiral "color journal" notebook with her, though, in case she needed to express something to herself. (Coloring the "color" of the emotion she felt). At the end of it, she would have an opportunity to share anything she wanted to talk about that she couldn't let go of on her own.

And by the way, this worked awesomely. We did it for about 5-6 months, and it gradually became unnecessary. She still takes a minute sometimes, and her sister has also picked up on it, if they feel disturbed or distracted.

The strong sitting didn't work for us. It was too regulated timewise (1 min per yr old), and too similar to public schools/previous disciplinarians approaches to punishment. One thing that we used to make it more appealing when we did it, was to relate it to the time that the judge/jury (because most kids have seen Judge Judy or something similar) takes before making a decision. Even important famous TV people have to stop and think before they act or speak!

[ChristyES]

We use strong sitting with our 6 year old adopted son. He has a terrible time with impulsivity and tantruming so we explain the strong sit to him as a way to "keep his power". We explain to him that he loses his power to make good choices when he acts before thinking and by practicing a little each day he can hold on to his power. We also practice breathing exercisies and he has a kids yoga tape that I think is helpful.

I agree about not wanting to make it a struggle but by sticking with it, you will establish a routine. Maybe try offering a choice as to when she would like to do her strong sit, asking her at what times it would be helpful to her.

Good Luck and keep us posted.
Christy