[SageKitty]

This thread had helped me so much. I realized I could not take another special needs child as a single parent. You NEVER get a break. I am glad I had the time with "J", but safety became the issue. (((Hugs))) to all you great people that have these children and are able to help make a better life for them. I have decided to become a Big Sister and take a year break. Dad, thanks for starting this thread.
Have a great day!
Sagekitty

[jojobear]

we are foster parents who are planning on adopting our foster son. He has been here a year and termination date is set for december. Last time in court i about died laughing when the laywer stated " This is a good looking, highly adoptable baby"

Well good looking doesn't make up for the never sleeping through the night at 28 months. It's been a year since I have slept longer than two hours at a time.

How about tantrums that last four hours just for him to pass out from exaustion sleep for about thirty mins and wake up and tantrum again.

Take him to the ER for breathing trouble and because he is sick and doesn't feel well when you leave him with dad to fill out the paper work he tantrums in the middle of the floor and you get asked by the intake worker "is he okay with that Man"

Nap times are a No No, if we are home with mommy and daddy we will climb out of our crib, tear apart our room, and scream for hours. If anyone else goes right to sleep.

Loves to tear apart the refridgerator and cabniets, all have locks now that my husband curses in the middle of the night when he tries to get a drink in the dark

How about running full force at a closed sliding glass door or our first concusion at 19 months from jumping off the couch trying to land on our rocking horse, to have the doctor tell you she thinks he is going to be one that has to learn the hard way.

And when we took placement of this baby at 17 months old we were told he has occasional tantrums. UHHHH HUH.

Jody

[doctorcat]

When we had our foster parent training classes "trust issues" were really stressed. We did exercises to simulate the kids being moved around and losing physical and emotional "things". The physical things were all the childs worldly belongings they traveled with that would get lost or forgotten in their multiple moves. The emotional things were all the memories that would get confused or lost in the child's life journey. The bio-parents taught the kids not to trust and the system continued there schooling. Our trainer, a sw who adopted kids from birth and older kids from the system, was a wealth of knowledge about resiliency and attachment. It came from her first hand knowledge of her four adopted kids who all had the ability to attach. She loved the book "The Five Love Languages of Children"(I think that is the title. I forget the author.) She kept stressing "love this" and "love that", PUT the diagnosis titles aside because the specialists always forget "love" in the treatment. She was almost like a cheerleader. We wanted to be successful in our placements and be like her. We had profound respect for her. We had a lot of love in our strong family.

What we didn't get out of training is a clear understanding of these disorders and how they would impact our family. We were deceived by cws, twice....two separate disruptions. We never heard the terms RAD (inhibited and uninhibited form), ODD, CD, ADHD, Intermittent Explosive Disorder, Multiple Personallity Disorder in our training classes. Love, love, love was the magic ingredient. My husband and I are to highly educated parents. We entered this blind, blind, blind, and stupid, stupid, stupid. We had those rose colored love glasses on that would conquer all.

When we matched with our first child it was a transracial placement. She was a 12 yr. old AA girl and we are cauc.. The questions asked to us was "Did we know how to take care of her hair and did we have a AA salon picked?" Also the question was "Did we have a AA church picked and did we know of one?" The questions we DID NOT get asked is on the first placement was "Are you ready to raise a mentally retarded, aggressive teenager?" We had been told she was very intelligent, non-aggressive and wanted to be a doctor or nurse and WANTED to be adopted. I was to be her mentor. We thought we were doing and incredible thing, so wonderful, so thankless. We had no paperwork on her before we accepted placement. We were love blind, blind, blind, and really stupid, stupid, stupid but so was our agency.

We were never told in training classes, "Do you think you can trust the cws?" No disrespect to cws but there are bad apples in the bunch and we got lucky twice with some real wormy ones. I never thought we would be taken advantage of as badly as we were...twice. Those rose colored love glasses I think kept us from seeing this also.

We educated ourselves and read a lot of books and articles before the second placement. We were not going to have this happen to us again. The question we heard then was, "Are you crazy? Haven't you learned anything after the 12yr. old child try to strangle your youngest child (who was seven at the time)?" We forged ahead with our decision to try to adopt again. This was OUR family's decision. The questions we asked ourselves was, "Can we go about daily in life knowing that there are kids that need families and we can provide that for them?" If we didn't try to give a child a home that would be a sin.

Our new cw felt she would protect our family, especially our younger kids who were physically abused by the first placement. Our second placement was worse than the first. When our cw advised us to accept this placement my husbands glasses were becoming photo-grey but mine were still the love blind same. I missed the RAD and Bipolar Disorder along with Intermittent Explosive Disorder, and possible Multiple Personallity Disorder that was hidden in the diagnosis of ADHD and ODD and toxic over medicating with Adderal XR.

One question you left out is "Are you ready to deal with the suicidal threats and the kid threatening to jump out of a moving car as you drive to the therapist? and "Are you ready to deal with the homicidal threats? The physicians at the psych unit that treated him when he had a emergency admission after trashing the house in an intense rage just brushed this off. He was a charming master of manipulation when he wanted to be. His one caseworker brushed it off saying, "These kids hear a lot of stuff in the system and they repeat alot of stuff." Helloooo, are we the only ones thinking this kids needs serious help?

I had my eyes checked and got a new prescription for my glasses.

Doctorcat-Mom of four bio-sons 18,16,11,&9.

[dadfor2]

doctorcat...

why my son just did that yesterday..."im going to open the door and jump out"....as i was driving

my olderson would say homicidal and suicidal threats all the time.


its tough to hear at such a young age.


dadfor2

[doctorcat]

dadfor2

Maybe love and a little Zyprexa are the magic ingredients.

Doctorcat

[dadfor2]

well they put him on clonidine and luvox.

it does help with the focus and agression some, but he is very stubborn.......

sometimes i just want him off all the meds and see what happends......but i know he needs something for his anxiety

but hes got plenty of love though

dadfor2

[bostonbeagle]

I just love this thread, well dad I decided to still go on the interview, to go for experience, see what is like, and I going to ready for questions upon questions, Im very interested in this child, but Im thinking is this the right child for me, I won't go with my eyes blind and not open, and I wll not accept placement until Im reay. Either this is a child they desperately want to find a family for, or the child is just a lag in the system, and they want to dump them on someone, Im sorry for this type of language, but that's how I feel!
I have reading abour RAD and ADHD! Alot of information, really opened my eyes up, but my heart is still interested, maybe Im nuts, everyone else thinks, but we are the ones raising the child, I just want to make sure!
Right we are anxious, curious, scared, and worried! Our interview in on Nov 22nd, please say a prayer for us!!!!
And dad just found out she has been in gropu home since JUNE 2003, a Big major question, HOW Is HER BEHAVIOR NOW???????????

Well Ill keep you all posted!
Regards,
Boston

[doctorcat]

Dadfor2,

They put our raging son on clonidine (after his inpatient stay, $9000.00+ 5-day respite for us) in the evening to try and slow him down. It did nothing. The doctors dragged their feet at putting him on a mood stabilizer like Zyprexa which my brother-in-law who is a child psychiatrist felt he needed after reading his history. Living with him was like living with domestic violence. We did not know what he was going to do to us when we engaged him. It was like living with a terrorist in the house.

When you see in the kids' candy coated profiles, "Needed, family who will be committed and give unconditional love" this means RAD, RAD, RAD. This is were the novice adopters get taken advantage of because their love is strong and conquers all.

Doctorcat

[crick]

are you ready for the paranoia that sets in every time your kid does something wrong? Is it a "normal" kid thing or a result of an underlying past trauma? Do you go with your gut feeling either way or do you think of all the things you heard in training or on the forum and think "OMIG! My kid has RAD!" And have no idea where to go for the "definite" diagnosis since a lot of times nothing is definite.

And if your children don't necessarily present a lot of the "symptoms" like other diagnosed kids do, do you spent your time researching everything you can only to be more lost and confused than when you started?

And for today and some other days, how do you deal with the fact that other families are really having a rough go of it and you don't know how to support them because your kids are nowhere near as challenging? You feel out of place and maybe don't belong and yet there are times when you, yourself, need the support no matter how minor the issue may seem to others, so you do your best and stick with the group.

Crick

[dadfor2]

doctorcat

actually i was talking about my younger son....my older son was on a mood stablilizer, clonidine, ritalin...he was so medicated but nothing seemed to work.

they finally put him on a anti-psycotic...i havnt seen him since he has been on it, but i get to see him on sunday in the group home.

i am hoping its working.

bostonbeagle, yes, you will be in my prayers.

you might want to ask why they are in a group home in the first place, vs a foster home

just an FYI, some kids do better in group homes due to the structure and the staff and the kids now they dont have to attach to the staff...they work 8 hours and go.

in a family setting like, foster or adopt, its very different.

during your meeting, ask for the numbers of the previous placements, you need to talk to them

any profile that says "needs lots of structure" is also a warning, because alot of our kids do best with structure, but like any family, things do come up.

I had to put on the wall, exactly what time we will be eating dinner, bath, brushing teeth...etc...so we all know whats coming next

but then, being in a family, we cant always go by the strict structure and that would set them off too.

alot of these kids do well in residential because there is no need to attach...the attachment is the issue.

anyway, god bless, you will be in my prayers, and who knows, maybe the child is fine.

you have been very patient with everyone...not sure i would of been.....well, as others can attest on here about me, sometimes we just dont want to hear it...

i know if i had my heart set on a child and people kept telling me all this stuff, i would of blasted them.

but you hung in there, listened to everyone, and at least your going in there with a different persective...so i guess we did our job, huh guys?...

best of luck, let us know how it goes.

but dont leave without the numbers of her previous placements...thats where you will find the truth.

hey, my sons group home told me that he was all set to come home...its expansive keeping a child in those places....

trust me, he wasnt ready...so dont just listen to the group home, they have their own motives too.

God i sound so negative.....just ask a bunch of questions, you have some info now on what to go on.

again, ADHD is nothing to be concerned with, its the RAD that should scare you.

dadfor2

[Cobb]

boston, I think it's fortunate that they are willing to share the RAD diagnosis with you. Some would try to hide it. The only thing I would add to what dadfor2 has said is do what you can to find out how extensive her challenging behaviors are. A list of RAD behaviors from Keck & Kupecky....

superficially engaging and "charming" behaviors
indiscriminate affection toward strangers
lack of affection with parents on their terms
little eye contact with parents, on normal terms
persistent nionsense questions and incessant chatter
inappropriate demanding and clingy behavior
lying about the obvious
stealing
destructive behavior to self, to others, and to material things
abnormal eating patterns
no impulse control
lags in learning
abnormal speech patterns
poor peer relationships
lack of cause-and-effect thinking
lack of conscrience
preoccupation with fire

Much of this you can find out through observation, but also ask how does she do at mealtimes, etc. If you don't frame it as a RAD question, they might be more willing to share. We were told something about things disappearing and that H was usually the one who "found" them. At the time, didn't realize this was a sign. So, observe and question!!

Wishing you much luck, I too think it's great that you're reaching out to those who've been there. I feel like an idiot for not utilizing this forum when it could have really made a difference.

My thoughts are with you,
Cobb

[HappyMomAnna]

..still have not decided what our answer will be...? I hope I have a few hours left?

........To all of you at the start of this journey as sad and painful as this thread is and as real and as informative as it is--I hope that the real point is coming accross that It is HARD and LOVE is not all there is to it....

........there are some other questions to ask ourselves? Some really deep ones that make us look into our own hearts and souls.... I think the big one is: Do You have a Big Enough Heart to have it be broken over and over along this journey?

.....I say again that no caseworker lied to us--when you read the profile all the indicators are there in black and white... It is just that every word in the profile ACTUALLY MEANS what it says and more.... But it DOES TAKE MORE THEN LOVE!!!!!!! Way more then love....

.....If it was just about love none of us would have had an issue.

.....BUT EVERYONE we come to this decision because we want to make a difference and we have the LOVE to give and we do know there are no promises that everything will work out in the end.... and sometimes on the really bad days in might be important to remember that No PARENT has the promise that things will go well for them either....

....I just met some neighbors a few blocks away and over the past several weeks we have become friends.... They have bios and the middle child is Asperger ADHD and a whole list of other problems...They are expereincing so many of the same kinds of issues and problems...along with the shame and the hiding behind their closed doors... It must be very hard not to hove the ONE thing that we all do--the feeling that we did not cause this...

DAD I am glad you started this thread because there are people who do go into this with the blinders on...and there are people who go into this knowing it will take more then love and find that disruption is the most horrible family event. AND there are those of us who go into this and do make an impact and do touch these children....The POINT is that all of these issues are a reality and all of us roll a set of dice and hope for the snake eyes to win... My thought is that most of the time things must go well enought that so many people we do know belly up and take in more and more and for whatever reason be it LUCK--LOVE or LUNICY seem to win?

We seem to be the same parents who piss and maon with each other but yet still go out of our way to try and scream that CHILDREN ARE WAITING--to others we must look like complete hypocrites at times????? How can we go out of our way and passionately write: ADOPT the WAITING CHILD they need our love too, and then come here and VENT with so much reality of what we know but still belive this is a calling--or an importnat thing?

....maybe we really are insaine?

...on one hand we feel so deeply about these children and we die every night a little bit knowing how many are hurt and waiting and on the onther hand we come to each other and blubber for days in our own pain? REALLY we must have some kind of problem?

...I myself do not want to frighten people who want to adopt these children away--I just want them to do so with their eyes wide open and know that there are not any promises that anyone can acutally make... No promise that Day Treatment will hold the magic keys--no promise of anything..... Just a promise that this is NOT for everyone--and this takes everything anyone might have to offer--financially, emotionally, legally, and spiritually..... If you play with fire you might get burned.....But then again it might make us stronger...or what if it acutally changes the future of one child?

....I guess in the end I am thankful that I have one thing to lay my load on and when I am at a loss for answers and don't know why I have to trust in my heart that someone greater then me actually knows what He is doing and what all of this is about.... For me sometimes it does really boil down to Blind Faith when nothing else is left I just have to trust that there is a reason for everything.... even if for the life of me I cannot figure it out this time around....

[doctorcat]

Dear Bostonbeagle,

Her current behavior in the group home is not an indication of how she will be in your home. In a group home setting kids with RAD can function "normally",somewhat, because the staff changes shift every 8 hours. If the kid doesn't like the caregiver the kid know that in a few hour someone else is going to be there to supervise them. They don't experience the intimacy of a family 24/7 with a parent or parents that they have to reliquish themself to and trust to meet their needs.

Remember in these kids lives when their needs as a crying infant i.e. food, comfort, changing, eye to eye contact with parent figure was not meet, their little baby brain told them, "I am not hungry, I am not cold, I am not wet, I am not going to die. I will suvive, I do not need anyone!" This is the root of RAD. These kids rage to push the parent figure and family away. They think of themself as dirt and their own mother didn't want them so why should anyone else. We know that they are precious gifts but living through and surviving the years of intense psycho-therapy to peel off the protective layers that have built up can be too much for a family to handle. I know from first hand experience in trying to parent a very sad, very beautiful, very emotionally disabled child. Our family couldn't do it. Please look up the Attachment Disorders Network website and read Nancy Spoolstra's first hand account of parenting children with RAD.

Doctorcat

[doctorcat]

Dear Bostonbeagle,

Her current behavior in the group home is not an indication of how she will be in your home. In a group home setting kids with RAD can function "normally",somewhat, because the staff changes shift every 8 hours. If the kid doesn't like the caregiver the kid know that in a few hour someone else is going to be there to supervise them. They don't experience the intimacy of a family 24/7 with a parent or parents that they have to reliquish themself to and trust to meet their needs.

Remember in these kids lives when their needs as a crying infant i.e. food, comfort, changing, eye to eye contact with parent figure was not meet, their little baby brain told them, "I am not hungry, I am not cold, I am not wet, I am not going to die. I will suvive, I do not need anyone!" This is the root of RAD. These kids rage to push the parent figure and family away. They think of themself as dirt and their own mother didn't want them so why should anyone else. We know that they are precious gifts but living through and surviving the years of intense psycho-therapy to peel off the protective layers that have built up can be too much for a family to handle. I know from first hand experience in trying to parent a very sad, very beautiful, very emotionally disabled child. Our family couldn't do it. Please look up the Attachment Disorders Network website and read Nancy Spoolstra's first hand account of parenting children with RAD.

Doctorcat

[dadfor2]

anna QUOTE:
"We seem to be the same parents who piss and maon with each other but yet still go out of our way to try and scream that CHILDREN ARE WAITING--to others we must look like complete hypocrites at times????? How can we go out of our way and passionately write: ADOPT the WAITING CHILD they need our love too, and then come here and VENT with so much reality of what we know but still belive this is a calling--or an importnat thing? "

oh anna, i think this all the time. I think sometimes i am advocating for not to adopt a waiting child, and other times i cant imagine why people wouldnt want an waiting child.

all i have is my experience. i was pre-adoptive of two special needs siblings. though i talk about my older son, his behaviors were out of control, then theres my younger son, who has his PTSD, ADHD issues, he was also dx with RAD when removed from birth mom.

i guess my kids were tough, i knew they would be, and i was ready.......but how tough, that wasnt explained to me.

i do believe in a higher power, i also believe that we were meant to have our two sons, and not any other children.

yes, we piss and moan....but in the end, we cant love our children anymore then we do. THe children that were placed with us, were suppose to be placed with us. I dont doubt that for a minute.

theres reasons for everything.

but our situation is not that very common. i know a whole lot of people that adopted here in mass. and only a few are having issues like we are. We are the ones that make it to the boards.

i have friends that i brought to our support group, they went once and didnt feel the need to go again.

i remember at times feeling bad for ourselves that we didnt get 'the easy' kids.

but then i again, i dont think we were suppose to get the easy kids, i think we were suppose to get our kids because we were the perfect family for them.

i dont think RAD is that common, though i know alot disagree with me, i think attachments issues are, but RAD, no.

this is just my personal belief. there are too many adoptions that work. even look at this board, there are only a handful of us with issues like this, but most seem to be doing ok.

we love our kids, they have brought joy to our lives and i wouldnt want it any other way....(just wish they werent so challenging)

Even though we have our issues, we will still advocate for the children that are waiting. some say 'a calling', i dont know what it is. But it was clear from the beginning that we wanted children in the system....there was not really a discussion about international/ infant.....we both knew what we wanted to do.

but yes, sometimes i think that people must think im a hypocrite, but im not. I would love for everyone to adopt a waiting child, but each child might have their own issues and if the parents are aware (like we were) then the adoptive child might get hurt again.

its more for the child then the new parents i speak of. the parents will grieve their loss if disruption happens, but the child, and how he/she internalizes it, is quite different.

so i think we put all the horror about RAD, just so people know what that dx is like.

i never heard of RAD when we were looking, i heard of alot of other dx like PTSD/ ADHD/ depression/ ect. only from the field i am in...but RAD...no, never heard of it.


so, as naive as i was, as horrific our house had become, i know deep down that my kids were meant to be with us. why? i wont know that for a long time...

dadfor2