[J.Ro]

Here we go again. Our 13 year old pre-adoptive daughter is acting out again. No raging, but just not wanting to participate in the family. We have family meetings every so often to discuss how things are going, check up on chores, expectations, fun times, cool things, etc. etc. She has resisted participating since the first (although she will ask in between times when the next meeting is?). Tonight was no different. Our official 3 month mark is this coming week and we talked about how it was going for all. Since they both have to sign the adoption papers, we are very clear with both of them that they need to want this. We are two women, and we try to be very clear with these kids some of the prejudices they will undoubtably face. We tell them both that we absolutely want them, want to adopt them, want them forever...but we also ask them if it is what they want. The judge will ask the same. Our daughter can never respond to that question. She will just say "I don't know" "I don't care" "I have nothing to say." Her brother on the other hand is very vocal "I'm happy, I think it's going great, I'm staying, you can't get rid of me, I'm glue."

Our number one expectation for these kids, above chores, is that they do their school work. This is our biggest expectation. Daughter said tonight "All I want to do is play."

So my question is this. How do I know when she's testing...Will they really keep me? Or is she truly unhappy here and doesn't want to participate in the family as we have laid it out. Our demands are not great and they are getting lots in return. They both have their own rooms, dogs, private schools that they love, not overloaded with stuff but all they need plus a little. I don't expect her to see me as her "mom", she's thirteen, but I do expect her to be a part of our mixmatched family as best as possible. Is this expecting too much?

When she does the flippant "I don't care", "I don't want to"...she wins. I'm at a loss for strategies with her. Losing privileges just seems to be what she expects and it doesn't really affect her.

This is rambling, but her resistance, inability to communicate in a way I understand, and general pissy attitude is wearing me down. I don't really like her very much. Which makes me question, is it fair to adopt a child I don't like? Will I learn to like her? (I can nurture, care, be fair, kind, and good to her without liking her....but is it enough?) Her therapist called her prickly and also said she feels she's a very damaged girl, and may never change (how's that for encouragement).

In tonight's conversation we asked her brother if his sister decided to move on what that would be like for him. He said "I'd stay." and didn't seem to be too affected by it.

Any thoughts...has anyone else been here. Is it enough just to provide a safe home for her, do I let her just grow up illiterate...she's so hard to fight, she's much better at it than I am.

Thanks

[JewelMarie]

Sometimes when kids say I don't know, they are saying, I really need you or need to talk to you. They are unable to identify their feelings or put it into words.

The child cares about you; if she did not, she would have said it. What she is saying is, I want this but how will I know this is forever. Kids usually think different from we do.

Hope this helps.

Jewel

[Cobb]

J.Ro - I can't offer much insight since her age is so different from what I've experienced. Has her therapist indicated to you what she meant when she called her "damaged". Personally, I don't like that word, I perfer "hurt". Ultimately, she's been failed by the adults in her life whose job it was to take care of her. But, I just wanted to see if the therapist clarified what she thought the issues were. It wouldn't be surprising for her to have attachment difficulties. At her age, they may be very difficult, if not impossible to overcome. Which doesn't mean that it's impossible for her to find a way to interact and function in your family. Your expectations and definition of "success" would need to change. I might have some suggestions of places you can look for information. My personal opinion is that you need to get as much information as you can before adopting so you can make a clear-cut decision.

Hopefully, there will be others, with more experience who will have some insight.
Cobb

[L-A-J-C-R-C]

J.Ro,

You made the comment, "I really don't like her." If that is the case my advice would be that you NOT adopt her. However, if it's her behavior you don't like, join the ranks of us parents of "teenagers!"

We have a 15 y/o fs that wants us to adopt him, however, he has done nothing in the past 8 months to "fit in" to our family. We have tried guiding him, coaching him, etc. and he gives us the uh huh then does something different. He is very verbal about the fact that he wants us to adopt him, however, we feel it's more about what he can get from us (possession wise) than that he really loves us and want to become a member of our family. This is a tough situation as we are in the process of adopting his 2 and 3 year old siblings.

There is a side to me that never gives up on kids but I have to admit, this guy drives me batty sometimes! 13 is a tough age (our bio kids are 16 and 20) so I do know that part of what she's going through is puberty-related. I just think that between puberty and adoption it may be more than she can/wants to handle.

Sorry I don't have the answer for you, I truly wish I did. Best of luck.

Michelle

[Debra]

I so rarely post to this board anymore, but I was a pretty active poster before and immediately after the adoption of my DD (17) and DS (14) three years ago. I still lurk and occasionally jump in, and I just couldn't let this go without sharing my opinion.
I don't like my DD. After 3 years I have not learned to love her. Some days I can barely stand to be in the same house as her.
She is "prickly". At first she was just a "hurt" child with a troubled background that needed a lot of attention and support. AFTER finalization it turned out that she has attachment issues and bipolar and ODD and ADHD and all the wonderful behaviors associated with these various "illnesses". She is smart and beautiful and totally dysfunctional and has come close to destroying my marriage and my life. I know it's not her fault.
I care for her and want the best for her and am doing all I can to be a good parent and raise her to be a healthy, happy adult.
But.......I knew that something wasn't "right" very quickly after she moved in (BTW, things are going well with her brother) and I really wish we had not finalized. I just thought things would get better, and they didn't, and now it just seems to get harder.
I often feel angry and resentful. It is VERY hard to live with a person you don't like. Yes, we are in counseling, but she is a master at manipulation and triangulation and playing "victim", so there is little progress.
PLEASE think this over carefully and get all the support you need lined up NOW, before finalization. Just my NVHO, but things do not improve after finalization (with these "prickly" kids...LOL), and they often get worse.
You are not wrong for how you feel, but listen to your gut instincts and make the best choices you can, for you and your entire family. I know ALL kids deserve a chance, but some of them really find it difficult to be part of any family structure, and it is an almost impossible task to help them "fit in".
Good luck! This is such a hard journey.

[lucyjoy]

"I don't know" often means-"I don't care"

I only want to play-well she missed most her childhood-that one I get. It took my son 5 years to get past that and start doing anything.

Can you live like this if she never changes? If not, don't adopt.
Also, if she doesn't want to be adopted-don't.

She sounds RAD. Appearing attached to people isn't always attached. Have you looked at the www.radzebra.org website?
The president has her story posted there. She has struggled greatly with her daughter. I know these people very well and I love the mom and the kid-but she's a tough one and has never been able to accept her families love. You might want to read it.

Can you adopt the brother and keep the girl while she and you decide what is best? I had a kid who liked living here but didn't want to be adopted.I just kept him until he was ready to be on his own.

[kamamsm]

I totally understand what you are talking about! Call her on it. Say," Could you please quit that fakey stuff and be straight with me? You have a voice I'd like to hear it." or tell her "Would you rather go away from us? It isn't bad to say you don't like us or our way of life, or that you're having a hard time."

(I also pm you.)

[J.Ro]

Thanks for all the posts in reply.

Debra - I feel for you, and your situation is exactly why I am questioning. Our therapist also put it out there. In our case, our daughter is intelligent...we know because she's a master at getting what she wants, hiding, manipulating....but, in her studies she has relied on being "special needs" to get out of work. I'm a teacher and I tutor dyslexics, so have the tools to help her....which of course she refuses. Same thing, "Don't you want to be able to read?", then the "I don't know" "I don't care scene." She definitely has some learning difference but it's a brain thing, not a smarts thing.

Lucy, I will go to the sight today and order Nancy Thomas book today. I've been putting it off, just hoping some click was going to happen. Sometimes she's sweet and wonderful and genuinely affectionate. Usually it's because she wants something.

Off to work.

[Again!]

Sounds a lot like my daughter, now 15. I didn't like her for a long time. Sometimes I still don't, and other times I think she is just awesome! She has stopped peeing in her clothes and now takes showers, which helps. She still tries to stand me off at times, for example we are about to move to another city and she has expressed a strong desire to stay with our nanny and her family and not move. She has come a very, very long way. She knows how to work and complete a job. She has learned to amuse herself without staring at the TV 24/7. She rides horses quite well! She plans to go to college. It hasn't always been easy but at the bad times I console myself that she is way better off than she was, even if she doesn't turn out to be exactly what I expected!