[Indy]

I don't normally "air" our "dirty laundry", but I want to know if I am really doing something wrong here.

Ok...there's this 17 year old, who thinks he is 18 and knows it all.

J is my 17 year old son. He has lived here for a year and a half. He is in an alternative school, as he was so far behind academically. His school lets out at 11:30 and 1:30 on alternating days. J goes home and sleeps 1-3 hours every day. Or he just lays around and watches TV. I have tried many times to get him to get a job. It is a battle to get him to do anything to help around the house. He is a bit selfish (many teenagers are). He does not have a driver's license, as he did not want to pay half of the fee for driver's education class. We live within a mile of a shopping center that has 30-40 stores and it includes a Wal-Mart. He could have had a job, if he wanted one. I paid him $200 a week to watch his younger brothers during the summer. That was the easiest job...swimming at the pool, playing on the computer, watching TV, etc. He doesn't have a dime to show for it. Part of that is my fault, as I did not make him save. Considering he is 17, I thought that he may have some vision of getting a car, freedom, etc. I was wrong.

Well anyway, here is my situation. J has a new girlfriend. The best part is at least this one is older than 14 (long story). She is 16. A is a girl from our church. J wanted to go to the football game on Friday night. He came to me and asked if he would go (good boy). I said yes. I then asked how he was going to get there and who was going to pay for it. I knew the answer he was looking for, but played dumb just the same. He got this grin that would have melted any 16 year old girl's heart and said "you". Well, I am not 16 and I am not a girl, so it didn't work. Then he got crappy. I just walked away and said be home at 11:00. He went over to the neighbor and got a ride. A girl paid for him to get in to the game.

Today, he called and asked if he could go to a choir recital with A. I said yes and being the sarcastic person that I am on Monday, I asked "who is going to give you a ride?" Wrong question for him today, because he got mad.

I explained to him that he is almost 18 and it is time for him to start taking care of his social life on his own. Of course, there was dead silence on the other end of the phone. He stated, "Dad, I am trying to get a job. I applied at ****." I said "J, I know that you applied to ****. But that was last week, and you have not followed up, nor have you applied else where." He then said "It's not like I can get my driver's license overnight." I agreed with him and reminded him that he is not driving the family car until he has a job to pay for insurance and gas. This just made him mad. He said, "I will never get to go out." I told him that he should have thought of this sooner, as I have been saying the same thing for the past year. I then told him I had to get back to work.

Well...to all my fellow parents out there...what do you think? Am I incorrect to expect this from him? Should I carry him to the recital? Give him money for dates? Is that setting a precedence? The boys are REAL BIG on "you did that for so and so, why not me?"

Have a great week!

[Jensboys]

I have said this to you before but QUIT second guessing yourself. You are doing a FINE job of raising MEN which is very different than raising permanent boys.

These are consequences of HIS actions and of course he isnt going to be happy about it. But that is why you are his dad, not his bank manager or best buddy. (or some sappy 16 year old girl ready to shell out her allowance for him).

Way to go!

[riley6]

I think you're doing a great job. Stick with it.

One thing that we did with our oldest son (who was not naturally motivated <notice I didn't say lazy >) was to ask him for his goals and have HIM write them down. Something magical happens having thoughts go from our brains through our hands unto our eyes!

After each goal I asked him to write the steps to achieve that goal. SEEING the process on paper really helped him realize HOW to make his goals happen.

Your son may not have witnessed anyone setting out and achieve a goal. He may think goals just magically get accomplished. Have him write out HOW to get a job, HOW to get a license, HOW to get a date to and from an event.

Good luck! You're doing great!

[kay]

Naw, you're doing fine. I'm doing a junior version of this with my 13 year old now. He says he wants to start babysitting, to earn money. Somebody at church yesterday asked if he'd be interested, and I gave my blessing. I told him about it, and said he should follow up with them and kind of solicit the job. "Why do I have to talk to them? Can't you do it for me?" No, son, you're the one wanting the work, you have to talk with your employer! Of course, he's 13, I'll be driving him, will probably go with him the first time just to make sure he's ok, and will be available to call if there are any problems, BUT he needs to take some responsibility. (Among other things, it *really* impressed the other parent when he came up to talk with them about it.) It's tough walking that fine line. A book I really like about this age says it all in the title:
Get Out of My Life, But First Could You Drive Me and Cheryl to the Mall?
I can't wait for the whole driving/car fun (yeah, right!)
Hang in there, Indy, only how many more to go????!

[Lindsie]

Hi, I just thought I'd stick my nose in here, I'm not a mom, but I have a brother with much the same attitude as your son. After giving in to him for ages, my parents eventually got smart and made him responsible for where he went, how he paid and who he went with. It took a while and a lot of griping from my brother but in the end it worked out.
He still had to ask permission to go to things, but he figured out pretty quickly that if he didn't have any transport or any cash then there was no point in even asking permission. It taught him to be responsible and to think ahead.
If you don't teach him now, you may find yourself bailing him out when he is 30 and "forgot" to pay his bills or whatever. You're doing a great job teaching him how to be an adult. Don't let him make you feel like you're not!

[Howdy]

Originally posted by Indy
...and reminded him that he is not driving the family car until he has a job to pay for insurance and gas. This just made him mad. ...

It sounds to me like you are doing really well, but one thing that might help (I'm basing this just on books, I don't have any experience with teenagers other than having been one a LONG time ago), is to phrase things more positively. Instead of 'you're NOT driving until...' phrase it like 'you MAY drive the car as soon as you have the money, etc'. And maybe take it a little easy about reminding him of his past ineptitudes, he might feel like since in the past he lacked foresight and ambition etc., that he is a person who lacks foresight and ambition, etc., feeling like he is hopelessly incapable instead of focusing on things he has done with foresight/hard work/etc. Not that it would be good to lie to him or make him think he has done better than he has, but just somehow to make the past follies not DEFINE the person he is.

[kamamsm]

Indy, You are not wrong! At some point he will have to learn that no one will "carry" him through life. What in this world will he do as a man if he doesn't learn these lessons now. Necessity is the mother of invention.

[kamamsm]

p.s Can I babysit for you next time? $200.00 a WEEK! PLease! LOL!

[Dianna]

Sounds good to me Indy. I am just starting out with our 13 and 12 year olds. I have bought 2 copies of "Parenting Teens with Love and Logic" by Foster and Cline, so far. I loaned one to another Mom. I think it is our job to take the flack that comes along with helping them learn to be responsible. I remember that commercial on TV. It shows a teen saying "You are the worst parent ever. You are always bugging me about where I am going and what I am doing." Then the kid looks right into the camera and says, "Thanks".

One thing I remember from the book, (that I have read several times) is that we are supposed to tell them what we will do, not what they should do. So I agree with the person who said to stay positive. "I will be glad to loan you the car when you pay for your insurance and gas", with a smile of course.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

Couldn't you start with baby steps?? I mean if he has depended on you and allowance this whole time... isnt --now you have to Pay for your own date, get your own ride, get a job, get your lisense....pay for gas AND pay for insurance....a lot??? Dont a lot of parents do these things for their kids??? I can see gas money... But dont parents drive their kids to dates and football games and cant he just be added to the car insurance?? Couldn't it just start with get a part time job by such and such date and then add the rest from there...???

If he has only lived there for a year and half and is 17....then it doesnt seem to me that he has had much time to even have a social life...let alone "take care of it by himself"... Maybe there is more to the story... I dont know... But I know a lot of College kids living on Mommy and Daddy's dime to party and go to school... So I dont think that a high school kid living on Mommy and Daddy's dime is such a big deal...they are still kids and are much more entitled IMO... Sure get a part time job and some responsibility...but have fun and be a kid...then once out of high school concentrate on more adult matters...

I dont know....



Maybe my daughter is/will be spoiled...
Hope my input was welcome....even if it differs...

Christine

[Original Mike]

I can relate! LOL

My sone C is 15 and is nw enjoying the fruits of a popular kid's social life. Problem is, nasty old Dad won't subsidise it. I won't let him work until this coming summer (academics come first) and I've agreed to pay his driver's ed fees in the spring. Last summer, his grades weren't good enough so I would not let him take Driver Ed.

Well, since he doesn't have a job at my behest, I give Chris an allowance of $15/week, Of course, he only gets paid for chores done. I'm not a task-master (despite what C may tell you). Some chores are as simple as "make your bed" or "take trash to road". Needless to say, he chooses not to do most of them.

Last week, his allowance ended up being $3.00. He was mad, but I told him you get paid by the job you do. Of course, $3.00 won't pay for a night of skating or many video game rentals.

He's now talking about the formal ROTC dance he wants to go to in January. I told him that I'll provide a ride for he and his date, but that dinner and corsage will be on him and that Fazoli's is NOT acceptable for most girls on a formal evening. We'll see how much money he puts aside by then.

[dadfor2]

hi indy

well, im not really sure what information i can give you.

a couple of things you pointed out. one was that the child has only been with you for 1 1/2 yrs....which is not a long time, so who knows where his head is at anyway.

you mentioned he is in an alternative school...im assuming learning issues.

being a teenage boy, you know its hard to express how you feel and its easy to just keep things in. does he know how to read and understand a job application?

he has had 16 yrs before you, and i just wonder what those 16 yrs were like for him and why the reluctance.

I dont believe that kids are just lazy, i think there is usually something else going on...and with your son, sound like their might be

is this a new school for him? you said that he just comes home and watches tv. or goes to sleep for 1-3 hours...

can he be just depressed? does he have any friends that he hangs with?

im guessing he has no after school activities either.

a 16 yr old that enters in his new forever family, is harder then a toddler going into their new forever family and can take longer to adjust to 'normal life'.....you probably know this more then I

if this child had been with you for a long time...by all means, i have no problem with what you are doing and saying to your child...he needs to learn about responsibilty and stuff...

plus, im not saying your doing anything wrong, but i was putting myself in your 17 yr olds head for a minute....and i was wondering if those issues might be a discussion...

depression, fear, feeling less then, trust issues, lonliness...all that stuff

i dont know, i dont know your son...im just responding to what you wrote.

again, im not saying do something different, but i was just wondering if he can be going through some stuff which makes it hard for him to get off the couch.

i find that a 17 yr old boy, who has no interest in getting his drivers lisence...very odd...dont you? there has to be something going on with him.

dadfor2

[spaypets]

It's interesting reading the different parenting styles--

I was like one of the kids Christine described. I wasn't allowed to get a job in high school because my job was to go to school. My parents gave me a monthly allowance with which I bought all my clothes and paid for all my entertainment. They put me on their car insurance. I was expected to fill the tank.

But, and it's a big but, I did well in school and participated in LOTS of extracurricular activities. Sound's like Indy's son doesn't have that internal drive. He sounds like kind of a mooch. So, with the theory that you adjust your parenting to fit the kid, I would say that Indy, you're on track.

Now, about that sleeping all afternoon -- two thoughts--depression? Or pot? Pot would explain his lack of drive.

[po]

I am with you Indy. When my husband and I were married we had combined families. I had 2 boys and he had 2 boys and a girl. They were all the same age and went to the same school. We never hired a sitter, but took them everywhere we went and did everything with them. From the very beginning they were told that because we took them on all of our dates that meant that we would get to go on theirs. We kept them so involved with 4H, civil air patrol, church, that they were always glad to get to stay home. They were given an allowance each week for jobs done and if they did not do their job, they paid us the amount they would have gotten for doing the job. It taught them job responsibility. They are all between 35 and 38 and have good jobs. They are all hard workers. We have the same rule with out foster kids. In order to get your allowance, you must do the job. they all have a bank account and even the 6 yr. old can go into the bank by herself and put money in her account. You are on the right track making the boy be responsible for his own expenses. po

[kiwi]

I will differ from others and say that I do believe some kids just plain don't want to do anything if they don't have to, so sometimes making them have to works best to accomplish anything but sedation in front of the tv.

My brother was the result of my young mom giving in when he would say he "forgot how" to clean his room and did a lot of things for him.

I did not work in high school but I was expected to pay for the insurance increase, license and gas if I were to drive... so if Mom couldn't pick me up, I walked, took the bus or got REAL close to friends who could drive.

If I wanted something special, I would have to work for it. There were regular chores to be done that resulted in regular freedoms (clean room and clean dishes=not staying home) Other special things, like going to a football game or needing a ride involved a favor to my parents. I wanted to go to a wrestling meet, neded admission and a ride so I had to clean the rotten apples off the deck before I could go. Skating rink? That'll be one scrubbed kitchen floor and a mowed lawn.

My aunt had a particularly unmotivated son and she wouldn't get him ANYTHING he didn't work for-- shampoo, socks, any food outside the usual cereal and sandwiches. He did end up getting a job outside the house because he just hated doing the work his mom assigned for him!