[SageKitty]

Hi!
I just lived through the weekend from hell. The eight year old boy that I was in the process of adopting was out of control. His therapist tells me he is testing me. His social worker says I need to set firmer limits and another expert said it is because he is attaching to me and that I am just getting the brunt of it. Well, I am a single parent and I am just about fed up. They have called in crisis intervention, but they have not come out yet. He is fine one minute and explosive the next. Does it ever end?
Sagekitty

[aMarylandfamily]

If you haven't read up on Onset Childhood Bi-Polar Disorder, you might find alot of useful information similar to what you are encountering. ADHD, RAD and BiPolar symptoms often mimic each other and a good therapist is required to determine exactly which way to direct treatment.

When we dealt with rages similar to those you have described it was very difficult to get professional assistance in view of the fact that by the time help (Police, Crisis Care and even Psychiatric Evaluations performed at the ER in the middle of the night!) was there the "cycle" had passed and you would have thought our child wonderful ... after becoming a danger to himself and others, residential services were obtained and the diagnosis since fluctuates between Bi-Polar and PTSD.

Hope this gives you direction to investigate.

[SageKitty]

Another reckless night of listening to him scream at me. I almost called the helpline, but he finally exhausted himself. I have inquired about bi-polar and have been told he does not have it. He has an attachment therapist and a doctor for his meds. I just don't get it. They tell me he is "testing" me. How long do they test for? He tried to lock me out of the house tonight. That is borderline not being safe. I was 1/2 of a second there to stop the door for closing, but he locked it. I am exhaused. The other thing is his all of a sudden going after the family pets.
Sagekitty

[lucyjoy]

Are you in the therapy sessions with the child? If not, I'd question if that truely is an attachment therapist. What do they suggest you do during these tests? If you cannot live with this child if he never changes, don't finalize. Can you video tape these outbursts? It can be very helpful to have a tape to show the professionals what you are dealing with. Did he have any outbursts inside the hospital?

[2boyz1girl]

This child may have issues that need to be addressed. But what they mean by "testing you" is that it is extremely common for children with attachment issues to try to reject you before you have a chance to reject them. How long have you had him, and how has he been up to this point? If he is starting to feel an attachment he might be afraid of it and trying to get away before he gets hurt again. This may or may not be the case with him, but if he's been abandoned or hurt by people he has been attached to in the past, it is likely the cause of what is going on now. He does need to go to counseling, and he needs lots and lots of reassurance that he is going to stay with you (hard to do when you aren't sure if you can keep him like this). I would speak to his therapist, and keep a detailed record of what is going on, the vide tape is a good idea. Last of all, try not to take it personally. I know for me, it's a lot harder to handle my sons' (bio - not even difficult kids) acting out when I internalize it.

[SageKitty]

Yes, I am in the room with him. Of course by the time he gets to the hospital he is calm. The school saw the behavior on Friday. He was fine all day in school today. Thanks, I should try and borrow a camera and tape these episodes. His social worker said I should be firmer and some of the actions sound like a typical eight year old? I know they have full cases and want these children adopted, but I was not given all of the facts. The recent stuff when he threatens the family pets is really over the edge. I had no idea that was in his family history. I told them that if he has to leave my house one more time from his explosive/agressive behavior, I am done. When he is calm I feel terrible even thinking like that. I feel terrible.
Sagekitty

[lucyjoy]

It sounded like you were missing lots of info. This also reminds me of my 8 year old twin that never attached. Will they let you talk to former foster parents? Ask the therapist to give you examples of how to handle the behaviors. As for the stuff that sounds like normal 8 year old behavior, your not imagining things.
While the behavior may be normal, the intensity isn't and the consequences aren't effecting the behavior. I know what it feels like to live in the middle of that war you describe. To parent a child with the needs you describe, you need a lot more resources and support and it doesn't seem like your getting it.

[aMarylandfamily]

Lucyjoy and I have been through alot of what you are now experiencing and feel her posts falling short of many statements she'd like to make as mine are so as not to push you one way or another as every situation can be different.

#1 - The severity of the rages you are encountering are not normal ... while they may be testing and may be part of attaching something here is very amiss ... will it take an act of violence that can't be corrected before the caseworker admits there is more to this than "normal".

#2 - Bi-Polar is very difficult to diagnose - especially in a child this young but the "cycles" of "onset" do begin this early and escalate so I wouldn't rule that out totally.

#3 - A major red flag went up when you write that he is turning this behavior scenario onto a pet ... abusiveness towards pet - even rough playing is a red flag for emotional disturbances beyond "normal" and should not be taken lightly ... and as said - will the act of violence result in that pet suffering (even by play that accidentally went too far) that you can never forget or even forgive ... or will, as in our case, the threat be reality turned on you ...?

#4 - You questioned in one of these posts "will it ever end" ... not without intense intervention/treatment ... our son was in and out of crisis care programs/homes for several months prior to requiring in-patient hospitalization with a step down to residential and each time he was released back to us it was with the hope (and even promise at one point) that things would get better and they would for short timeframes and then return at a severity even greater and more serious than before.

I know your heart is breaking but please read all the advice and wisdome shared and determine if this child needs more than you can give - it does not mean a reflection on your parenting or abilities or capability and any action needed will be filled with the courage it takes to love ... as is shown by all your posts and questions here.

Let us help - keep firing these questions but don't excuse anything because of this or that ... you don't want regrets that you didn't do what was best for him even tho heartbreaking in the process.

We/I care!!!


Sorry to be blunt and so forward but having been here and done this know where you are and your posts want in your hearts for one of us to say - it will get better ... and it could - but not without major intervention

[aMarylandfamily]

In trying to word things without judgement (as there definitely isn't any!!!), I guess a paragraph I started decided to stay on the end of my last post. Sorry ...

Please know that what I have written in from caring ... I wish I could do more to help. Just know you are not alone ....

[roxanna425]

harming pets is a red flag. uncontrollabel rages that cycle is another red flag. trying to talking about hurting you is another red flag. Can you ask the cw to see the paperwork on the child? Is your foster son careful about his own safety or has he hurt any other children? Can you talk to previous foster parents? Have you talked honestly to the cw and told them you'd like to put the finalization on *indefinite* hold until you get this sorted out.

I have two family friends one that is struggling with the same issues at the same age and they have not gotten any relief for their son and they are married and they both work in the medical field. I mention that they are married because these problems have been stressful and draining to the brink of divorce and not to mention the expense. The other was an international adoption and that child is now in a residential treatment facility.

Once you finalize the adoption your subsidies are terminated unless you specifically make that part of your agreement. I would not finilize until you have a hold of this situation and know what you are getting into at the LEAST.

If you want to read about setting limits you can read:
*Setting limits with your strong-willed child : eliminating conflict by establishing clear, firm, and respectful boundaries MacKenzie
*The challenging child : understanding, raising, and enjoying the five "difficult" types of children. Greenspan
*The defiant child : a parent's guide to oppositional defiant disorder. Douglas

You can probably get them at your local library. They can help you determine normal from not-normal and you can at least say that you read up on it and tried the things they suggest and that it didn't work.

[rights]

SageKitty,
I have to be honest at the risk of being attacked, if I were in your situation, I would NOT adopt this child. Having a child like this is hard enough when you are married and you have someone to share the stress with. Does he have a diagnosis? Have you read his file? If you are adopting a foster placement, they have to let you read his file. Maybe his SW or his therapist would be interested in adopting him. It is easy for them to justify and excuse his behavior because they don't have to live with him. If the state gets you to go through with the adoption, then he is yours forever. Sorry if I sound cold but I'm thinking that your son is kin to a foster placement that I had for a year and I finally asked to have him moved. I am so glad that I made that choice and I have never regretted it. Don't worry about what other people will think if you decide not to adopt, he will be YOUR responsibilty for at least 10 more years if you do and 10 years is along time to live in hell.

[SageKitty]

Hi!

Thanks for all of your help. I did not take anything the wrong way. I need someone to be direct and not dance around the issues and make me feel like I am crazy. His social worker says he is a typical eight year old that is just testing me. I feel like I never say or do the right thing anymore. I'm exhausted! A family stabilization team is being put in place. I appreciate the help. but I will be tied up three days a week with therapy and the others will be filled in with the anger for having to go. He told me he liked the other home he was in, but did not want to leave here. I just don't feel equipped to do this and I feel awful. At the moment I want it all to go away.

Sagekitty

[2boyz1girl]

Hang in there sagekitty! I commend you for being such a great person to even give this a try. I don't think that any child who has been moved around at this boys age (along with whatever reasons he has been moved around for) can be considered "typical." Have you ever read the book "A Child Called It?" I'm sure that reading right now is the last thing you have time for, but it really helped me feel compassion for children who have been in bad situations, and all children for that matter. It's not going to give you any information on how to handle this child, but maybe help you understand where he is coming from. Good luck!

[SageKitty]

I have read the book. I have a lot of compassion for these children as I also volunteer for DSS. I think that is why I am so upset that this is not going very well.

Sagekitty

[Indy]

I am also a single parent. So I know what you mean when you say "return to my quiet life", as I get there sometimes.

My youngest son C was an "unholy" terror. I had weekly counseling sessions, constant phone calls from school, and neighbors who complained to me about what he was doing. Every Saturday morning for months was his crying, yelling, screaming time. He said very mean things to me, like he didn't want me to adopt him. He hated me.

He lied to day care providers who told me. He said that I beat him and did not feed him enough. If I had not known the daycare supervisor, who was also one of my neighbors, I would have had problems. I gave them the number to my caseworker with CPS. I knew that they had to report what my son was saying. She came out and evaluated the situation. She determined that he was lying to get attention from workers. This went on for 4 months prior to the adoption and almost a year after.

I worked with the doctor, teachers, and psychologist to help C. I virtually eliminated sugar from his diet. Within a couple of days after eliminating his sugar cereal in the morning, the teacher called and asked what were his new meds. I am not saying he is perfect. I am saying that he went from being 75% of my behavior problem to less than 10% in a period of a year.

I do not think that C is to the level that your son is. It should be noted that he was hospitalized three times for extreme behavior. He was 7-8 when that happened. Lot's of anger in this one.

Good luck. My thoughts and prayers go out to you as you make life changing decisions for you and your son.