[dadfor2]

well,

here we go again, our 8 yr old over the last 6 days have been increasingly getting worse.

the definace, the anger, the tantrums....its all getting way too much again.

we were doing pretty good for a while. he started a mood stablizer about 2 weeks ago, not sure if that has anything to do with it.

plus were moving, and even though the kids seem excited, i wonder how they are internalizing it. we try to explain we are all moving together and they seem fine with it and excited.

plus, we found respite, yeaaa..(i think), and we went for the day to meet them, and when we met them the kids went crazy..not sure if they thought this was going to be their new family or not..again, we try to explain but not sure what they are really feeling.

we had to call the BEST team monday night, (which is a pysh Emergency team, that actually come to your house) because he just wasnt stopping with the homicidal and sucidal threats and we were getting worried

but here we go again, the battles, battles, battles.

does it ever stop?

and as for my 6 yr old...well, when the 8 yr old is having a hard time, he becomes the best little boy in the world...which of course, makes it easier for us to deal with the 8 yr old) however...i dont like either....(if you saw him, you will understand)...kids arent suppose behave all the time....its painful to watch.

anyway, just thought id put this out there, we are starting to video tape these tantrums again, to have some back up in case we need it....

sometimes it feels like it will never end...

dadfor2

[aMarylandfamily]

Having a child who exhibited many of the behaviors your 8 year old is and has we truly understand the emotions that you are feeling ... know you are cared about!

Can I ask what mood stabilizer your son was placed on ... trileptal proved detrimental for our child ... but with his explosive diagnosis of PTSD combined with Bi-Polar it could also have been very beneficial and was worth the try. Our child's condition is both on-set and is stated to worsen with growth/age and is most definitely cycular so this may be a roller coaster ride that you travel often if he stays with you (I know you and your wife have discussed this scenario at many times) and the cycles are often not chartable nor understandable which doesn't help much either. Without scaring you the homicidal and suicidal threats are real and if like our son he will at one point act upon them so be very careful (but know you understand as you did reach out for help with BEST which I applaud your courage and love for! - again having been here and done this understand how hard it is to make the call but also how necessary) ... no-one can know the feeling of being locked out of a home with the child and small animal in hand on the roof threatening to jump ... or the feeling when told by the phsych evaluator at the hospital later that he really might not have done it so could go home until they have been there! From personal experience - your move may be affecting these kids (which produces horrendous behavior in even the most normal of children!) but it would not cause the escalation of agression that occurred so don't blame yourself for bettering your world.

Take care and know we are here to listen to and help in whatever way we can!

[dadfor2]

hi maryland

the mood stablilizer he is on is trileptol. he is on such a low dose. when we first put him on it, he seemed to sleep better, but didnt really notice any changes in him behavior wise, now two weeks into it, he is off his rocker.

we dont know if it the med or not.

the psych felt that he just throws garbage out of his mouth when he is angry, she talked to him for about 1 hour.

he said he loves living here and this is where he wants to be (i was in the other room listening in)

he is very verbal, he said he doesnt like to get angry but then he cant stop it. he told her the plans we have in place and that helps him (though when he is angry, it doesnt work)

also, i kept pushing the bi-polar dx and they keep telling me they dont think he is because of the control he has. they said that bipolar kids cant pick and choose when they are going to act out.

plus, during one of his rages the other day, he picked up a rock to throw at his brother and i told him to put the rock down and dont throw it....he did throw out, but didnt throw it at his brother....because he had control

then comes the (RAD) attachment stuff....everyone who has seen him, say he is attached to us and basically its all PTSD issues. but i cant believe that thats all it is

even the psych who met him felt he did not have RAD, she has met alot of RAD kids due to going to peoples home in crisis and dealing with some of these children.

she said he is definitly not RAD and clearly has attached to us.

so what does that leave us with?...its so frustrating, maybe it is just PTSD, i dont know....i dont have anything to compare it to...

but the minute i pick him up in the car...it starts...unwinds like a top...i know he is not crazy about his camp this year...but he wont tell me why, he says he just doesnt like it...but then sometimes he does.

the camp last year had all these wonderful things, and we kept him in this camp this year, because he was familiar with because it served as an afterschool program too.

we thought we would just keep him there due too one less transition.

who knows?....we have an appt for him for his therapist today, and maybe she can figure out whats going on.

thanks for your ongoing support, its always great to hear from people who 'did that done that'


dadfor2

[spaypets]

Dad, have you asked at the camp if he's having trouble with any of the kids? Maybe he's getting picked on or feels left out?

Also, have you ever checked his blood sugar? If he's freaking out after being active all day, it could be that he's hungry. I know that sounds overly simplistic, but it could be just enough to send him over the edge in terms of control.

My heart goes out to you -- I know how hard you've worked with him. He is so fortunate to have you.

[dadfor2]

hi spay

i will ask about the other kids...i never thought about that...when i pick him up, he is usually by himself, either on the swing or sitting at the table with the other kids not really engaging.

the camp he goes to, is promidently african american, as well as the school he went too.....when we first got him, he said he was scared to go to school due to the "brown people"....his foster brother was african american, and he molested him.

so i understood the fear, but we worked through alot of it in his school....he loved his teacher, as did we, who was african american and who worked real hard with him.....

and he hasnt said anything about the 'brown people' in a long time.

i often wondered those fear are creeping up on him again.

plus, the hungry thing...good point there....i have actually thought about that too....he has a healthy apetite (you wouldnt know it by looking at him, he is so skinny) so i have been feeding them earlier, thinking that might be it also.

still cant rule it out though.....i know they feed him lunch early over there, maybe if i bring something in the car for him to munch on when i pick him up...just for the ride home and get something in his stomack

but these are great ideas, and i will look into it further. ill call the afterschool program today.

dadfor2

[aMarylandfamily]

What I write may come across with demanding implications - please know it is not meant that way ... I just wish that two years ago someone (especially the psych professionals had been as up-front with us!) had clued us into some additional information ... and it may not all fall together in my words but will come across.

Bi-Polar kids can control their behaviors until they reach a certain point in the "rage" that is going on inside of them and then explodes further ... kids with PTSD and Bi-Polar also often exhibit behaviors associated with Disassociative Disorder
(http://www.cmhawrb.on.ca/disassociation.htm will start you for reading on that - it too is scary so be warned) and thus when they are through this "cycle" that they just exhibited they can clearly verbalize their regrets as well as their attachment and like of things such as living where they are or be in complete denial of any of what occurred. We had alternating sessions of both!Very hard to take and just as hard to understand! The hardest thing to understand is that at some point they will all happen at the same time and then you will have violence and more than likely that violence will be directed towards a loved one (sibling) and don't put yourself in a position of regrets ... no - I'm not telling you to disrupt and I know you have many safe-precautions already in place due to the nature of the problems but re-review those and see if you need even more. Trileptal can be a miracle drug for many or the worse thing for others ... our son too was on a very low dosage and for about 8 days we were in heaven with the change in him and then it/he regressed and increasing the dosage gave us a few good days and then whap! and you can't do that indefinitely. This is when he almost succeeded twice in suicide attempts (which had been voiced verbally for some time prior) and one homicide attempt but it would have been a homicide against him ... sometimes their goal ... as he infuriated a peer so much that the peer literally threw him over and down a flight of school stairs ... that and an attempt (and again almost success in a house being monitored 24/7) of murdering the sibling caused us to process through a CPS investigation after refusing to bring him home from the hospital following another psych eval (no children's ward ... no admittance unless actual violence had been successful) and forcing admittance into a program and further long-term RTC and to this day - he states - he loves us, he wants to come home BUT without rules, expectations and permission to be violent if and when he wants and sees nothing wrong with the forced sexual perpetration of a peer there at the RTC and expects it could occur again. So am I scared for him - yes! Have we given up on him - no! We just have accepted what we must do to get him the services he needs and step back for them to take place. Hard - yes ... Regrets - no - other than we wish we could do more to make him healthy and happy!

And now that I have written a book I should stop (for now) to make sure I haven't angered you as well as let you take in what I wrote and fire back questions if you wish ... as I said no one understands what you are feeling until you have been there and our son has been in an RTC 17 months with little or no progress and it hurts just as much today as it did the first time I made the 911 call and the second until the last one when forced to force services.

[aMarylandfamily]

The initial therapist we were working with at the RTC was very clear that Bi-Polar would be the last diagnosis they would put on any child under 18 ... onset means that they cannot accurately identify the severity of those symptoms and that a PTSD diagnosis will still allow the child to participate in life (jobs, etc.) as an adult as they expect that identified therapy has resolved that point but Bi-Polar limits a person's opportunities life-long ... and they will do anything to not put that diagnosis in writing. I do believe that it began appearing on our son's monthly treatment care plan after 12 months but then again they had to warrant his continued need for treatment beyond the year that is standard ... and most kids can be reached in a year ...

Again, please do not take my comments personnally or to heart - although hard to voice again I feel the need for you to at least explore all avenues so that your child can get treatment now vs. years from now and miss out on so many of the pleasures life brings to an 8, 9, 10, etc. year old!

[dadfor2]

maryland

no, im not taking any offence in anything you have to say...i truly appreciate it.

i am still not convinced he is not bipolar....i keep throwing it out to people. i will read the article you gave me and print it out to show.

i have to go to our thearpy session now....lol...we need it for us.....and i will come back with a few questions.

please, dont ever stop telling me or suggesting things to me with fear of me getting defensive..i have come to know and respect you, and you have supported me through this whole ordeal

but heres a quick question....how old was your son? i forgot.

dadfor2

[aMarylandfamily]

Our son was 11 when he began visiting with us and placement took place six months after start of visits. He turned 14 this year which is why I say - don't give up getting to bottom of problem (and you may have to get to that bottom many times before you are done) so this child not only has a life but also a childhood!

Thanks too for the encouraging words to keep writing ... I feel like I'm looking in the mirror as I can feel the same emotions we have been through in many of the same situations and just want to help ... as I said - both my dh and I wish we had that help so we weren't constantly relying upon professional opinions or diagnoses ... even one fact of our experience that could be similar to your sons could take you in a direction that will mean much quicker resolution to the pain.

[Opus]

Hi dad,

I think you may have something there regarding your family moving to a brand new town and your son's reaction to it. He may be outwardly accepting of it but how is he internalizing it? Also, buying, selling, moving is extremely stressful for everyone in the family. You know that we're moving too and the stress level at our house is at an all time high. We think our kids are reacting to the stress because they are acting up more than usual, esp my son who is concerned about going to a new school, leaving his friends behind etc.

Anyhow, just extending to you whatever support I can, hang in there.

[Lorraine123]

Dad -

I don't have answers, just letting you know that I'm thinking about you and hoping everything works out.

Lorraine

[kay]

Dad,

No help from me, but lots of sympathy and support. My son had nowhere near your son's issues and behaviors, yet I remember well how exhausting it was dealing with him when he was raging. I'd guess that your move has a lot to do with his current upset - but even if you identify the cause absolutely, you still need to somehow handle the behaviors. I admire you and your love and your determination to help your son. Hang in there - thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

[dadfor2]

thank you all for your responces...i talked to his therapist today through email, he had a session yesterday, and this is what she said.....it might be choped up to protect my sons personal stuff...


"8 yr old is highly triggered by the move as well as trauma issues. He was able to talk about fearing you two will leave him, spoke about his nightmares and how they have gotten worse over the years, and how he hates his brother but does not know why.

He is opening up and starting to trust enough to share his anger. It is going to be a rough ride.

I am working on both expression of feelings as well as containment. He started to talk about the past in session and made reference to being five years old and seeing the "monster with the mustache".

You can tell him until you are blue in the face that he is safe and that you both will be there for him, however his triggers take over. I am also working with him of safer choices when he gets angry, however he really has a difficult time when he starts.

This is not the meds, it is his trauma. He is trusting enough because of all the work you two have done, the move is just really triggering him"


could all this be triggering him, maybe the stress of the move that we are expeirenceing he is picking up....GOd this is so confusing...

dadfor2

[spaypets]

It makes so much sense--every other time he's moved it's represented a loss, so all the old feelings of abandoment and grief come up. I'm so sorry you all have to go through this.

[lucyjoy]

Any recommendations for the hating of his brother? Although this is trauma related, it cannot and should not be ignored and it can have serious consequences. Be careful not to leave the boys alone together. YOur younger son behaves better when the older one is occuppying all your time because he knows he's not in danger then.(my theory anyway)

(Don't you just wish you could tell someone to stop the roller coaster because you want to get off? There is so much garbage in these kids pasts that you feel like your nuts all the time. I'll empathize with you on this one)